'BLOOD LORDS' Adventure Path

[Saedar]

Perpdepog wrote:

I hope the factions are loosely collected around different kinds of undead. Like the eating/drinking undead are more represented in one faction, ethereal and spectral undead in another, the "workhorse" undead of skeletal champions and zombie lords--if they exist still--in a third.

I feel like an undead's genesis, ungenesis, necronesis, and specific requirements to exist comfortably will shape how they see the world, and I can easily imagine those viewpoints translating into factional policy debates.

Few things make me more giddy than the ecology of undeath. Anything exploring that in the APs would be incredibly cool.

[keftiu]

Perpdepog wrote:

I hope the factions are loosely collected around different kinds of undead. Like the eating/drinking undead are more represented in one faction, ethereal and spectral undead in another, the "workhorse" undead of skeletal champions and zombie lords--if they exist still--in a third.

I feel like an undead's genesis, ungenesis, necronesis, and specific requirements to exist comfortably will shape how they see the world, and I can easily imagine those viewpoints translating into factional policy debates.

The split between those that need to feed and those that don't is already is pretty fascinating divide, and I imagine it splits even further from there. Is there a mummy on the council? I'm super curious to see them explored more fully.

[Perpdepog]

Saedar wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

I hope the factions are loosely collected around different kinds of undead. Like the eating/drinking undead are more represented in one faction, ethereal and spectral undead in another, the "workhorse" undead of skeletal champions and zombie lords--if they exist still--in a third.

I feel like an undead's genesis, ungenesis, necronesis, and specific requirements to exist comfortably will shape how they see the world, and I can easily imagine those viewpoints translating into factional policy debates.

Few things make me more giddy than the ecology of undeath. Anything exploring that in the APs would be incredibly cool.

Agreed. I almost think of it more as psychology than ecology, since undead don't typically need things to sustain themselves, but how that works out is going to be super fun to read about. I'm really looking forward to the backmatter articles.

keftiu wrote:

Is there a mummy on the council? I'm super curious to see them explored more fully.

My money is on yes. I'm personally expecting a vampire (naturally), some kind of lich or graveknight, a mummy, perhaps some manner of ghost, and an outside chance of them having a living necromancer.

[W E Ray]

See, I'm not sure how comfortable I am with them thoroughly or exhaustively developing that for the Undead, er, 'Factions'(?).

I mean, after four decades of playing this game I have a good handle on much of that and if it's turned on its head with brand new design, it could be, might be, harder to use.

But then again, ....brilliant and new design is SOOO great for the game.

Hmm.

If they do go this route, really fleshing out (pun intended) the Undead factions by 'Hungry' or 'Incorporeal' or what-have-you, I hope they make it specific enough to this one particular morsel of the campaign setting that it does not become canon for All Undead, everywhere in the setting.
.
.
.
(Pathfinder Drow are neat how they were Elves that spontaneously transformed -- BUT THAT'S NOT Drow! I know; I've been playing Drow since 1981ish and it's NOT how they came to be!) To name one example. ....Goblins are another. Pathfinder Goblins ARE NOT GOBLINS!!!!
....But it is Really good design.
And so I'm not completely sure if I want all new design 'Factions' for Undead. Or, at least, not sure I want it outside of just this one part of the setting.

[keftiu]

Given that they’re described as “the Great Factions of Geb,” I think you have nothing to fear.

[Saedar]

W E Ray wrote:

I mean, after four decades of playing this game I have a good handle on much of that and if it's turned on its head with brand new design, it could be, might be, harder to use.

You haven't been playing "this game" for four decades. PF2 has only been out for a couple years. Gamers™ collectively need to stop confusing "one game of similar aesthetics" with another. PF isn't D&D isn't Shadowrun isn't Ars Magica. Let go of the baggage of decades and just let the game exist on its own terms.

[Kasoh]

Saedar wrote:

W E Ray wrote:

I mean, after four decades of playing this game I have a good handle on much of that and if it's turned on its head with brand new design, it could be, might be, harder to use.

You haven't been playing "this game" for four decades. PF2 has only been out for a couple years. Gamers™ collectively need to stop confusing "one game of similar aesthetics" with another. PF isn't D&D isn't Shadowrun isn't Ars Magica. Let go of the baggage of decades and just let the game exist on its own terms.

Eh. If you don't want it compared to Pathfinder 1e, don't name it Pathfinder 2e.

[Rysky]

Pathfinder 1st was published in 2009, a little over a decade ago, not 4 decades ago.

And even then, P2 is drastically different than P1 and 3.5.

[Kasoh]

Rysky wrote:

Pathfinder 1st was published in 2009, a little over a decade ago, not 4 decades ago.

And even then, P2 is drastically different than P1 and 3.5.

All very true. Its not like PF1 wasn't hanging its hat on 3.5's legacy though, including bits about "The World's Most Popular Roleplaying Game" and all.

Games change, but a lot of people don't really think so. Football is quite different from when the first Lombardi Trophy was doled out to today, but people still call it Football.

Ship of Theseus joke here or something.

Having experience in one game or system does not always translate to success in another. On the other hand, extensive experience with multiple games is usually a boon to a game master.

[Rysky]

And still, neither P2 nor P1 have been around for 40 years.

[PossibleCabbage]

Pathfinder 1e wasn't really the same game in 2016 as it was in 2010 anyway. A large part of the justification for a new edition was because all the decisions made early on persisted as baggage.

As for Geb, I hope they take this seriously in terms of "how this can work".

[CULTxicycalm]

Anything can be compared to anything else. An apple and a spaceship can be compared (I'll take the spaceship, thanks). People can and do and will compare PF2 to PF1, and even to apples and spaceships. "You can't compare this with that" is a mere symptom of intellectual weakness. Attack the comparison, if you want, not the person's ability to make comparisons at all. Besides, no matter what you say, the person will make the comparison anyway. There simply doesn't exist a way to stop them, at least not in a civilized society. So you may as well just chill.

In conclusion, if my point wasn't clear, PF1 for lyfe.

[keftiu]

…what does any of this have to do with Blood Lords?

[Perpdepog]

keftiu wrote:

…what does any of this have to do with Blood Lords?

I have absolutely no idea, but now I'm thinking of undead piloting spaceships and I'm sad that the Bone Sages of Eox are almost certainly not going to be making an appearance in this AP all over again.

On the other hand, my mood is a bit leavened by thinking about undead and apples, remembering the butchering of "bon appetit" as "bone apple tea," and then pondering the uniquely Gebbite exports of the various parts of the bone apple tree.

[The Raven Black]

Perpdepog wrote:

On the other hand, my mood is a bit leavened by thinking about undead and apples, remembering the butchering of "bon appetit" as "bone apple tea," and then pondering the uniquely Gebbite exports of the various parts of the bone apple tree.

As a French citizen, I approve this message.

[Kasoh]

Perpdepog wrote:

keftiu wrote:

…what does any of this have to do with Blood Lords?

I have absolutely no idea, but now I'm thinking of undead piloting spaceships and I'm sad that the Bone Sages of Eox are almost certainly not going to be making an appearance in this AP all over again.

On the other hand, my mood is a bit leavened by thinking about undead and apples, remembering the butchering of "bon appetit" as "bone apple tea," and then pondering the uniquely Gebbite exports of the various parts of the bone apple tree.

Oddly enough, this AP is one of the best places to shoehorn in an appearance. Geb is /the/ undead civilization of Golarion. So they could have emissaries from all over. Tar-Baphon, the Bone Sages, etc.

The space stuff isn't my cup of bone apple tea, but there's space a place for it.

[Perpdepog]

I almost certainly will shoehorn them in if/when I run it. Book of the Dead will be out by then and making undead NPCs should be even easier than normal.

I may even get lucky enough to be a player and could potentially make an Eoxian character as someone visiting their backwater undead contemporaries.

[keftiu]

I don’t know that we’d get another dash of interplanetary fun so soon after Strength of Thousands, but I’d love to be wrong.

[The Raven Black]

Say No to standard non-Evil Undead.

This message was brought to you by the Eoxian Resistant Church of Pharasma.

[keftiu]

The Raven Black wrote:

Say No to standard non-Evil Undead.

This message was brought to you by the Eoxian Resistant Church of Pharasma.

The first character I'm rolling after Book of the Dead drops is a NG ghoul devotee of Tanagaar, following the teachings of the cult introduced in that one Extinction Curse backmatter.

She wouldn't likely fit this AP, but still. I expect a lot of Good undead characters to crop up - especially since we know the Knights of Lastwall employ some.

[The Raven Black]

keftiu wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

Say No to standard non-Evil Undead.

This message was brought to you by the Eoxian Resistant Church of Pharasma.

The first character I'm rolling after Book of the Dead drops is a NG ghoul devotee of Tanagaar, following the teachings of the cult introduced in that one Extinction Curse backmatter.

She wouldn't likely fit this AP, but still. I expect a lot of Good undead characters to crop up - especially since we know the Knights of Lastwall employ some.

BLASPHEMY !!!

;-)

Would you be interested by a very brief presentation of the history and workings of the universe ?

They very clearly show how undeath slowly rots the reality entire and that Pharasma is absolutely right in opposing it for the sake of us all.

Wow. I am beginning to scare myself when impersonating this kind of religious extremist of Pharasma bent on converting the people they debate with.

[Perpdepog]

The Raven Black wrote:

They very clearly show how undeath slowly rots the reality entire and that Pharasma is absolutely right in opposing it for the sake of us all.

Well that's just, like, her opinion, man.

And now I need to make a mummified version of Jeff Bridges' character. "The Dude abides," indeed.

[W E Ray]

W E Ray wrote:

Ron Lundeen mentioned that there is quite a bit of intrigue in this AP – though maybe he was specifically referring to volume one, Zombie Feast.

Can any of the developers or authors give us a bit more than that?

Are parts of this super heavy roleplay with guile and innuendo and Skill Check gambits with less combat? Does it have the ROLEplay vibe that large chunks of CotCT and WftC have? Is it so much more urban adventure and NPC development than classic dungeon crawl and wilderness adventure?

I am WAAAAY more ‘All In’ for a heavy intrigue/ roleplay/ guile/ urban setting AP – all in the backdrop of an Undead kingdom. That sounds really awesome.

.

Can Ron Lundeen or any of the Developers or Authors give us a bit more on this, PRETTY PLEASE?! ....With whipped cream, sprinkles, Cthulhu, and a cherry on top?!

Thanks

[keftiu]

W E Ray wrote:

W E Ray wrote:

Ron Lundeen mentioned that there is quite a bit of intrigue in this AP – though maybe he was specifically referring to volume one, Zombie Feast.

Can any of the developers or authors give us a bit more than that?

Are parts of this super heavy roleplay with guile and innuendo and Skill Check gambits with less combat? Does it have the ROLEplay vibe that large chunks of CotCT and WftC have? Is it so much more urban adventure and NPC development than classic dungeon crawl and wilderness adventure?

I am WAAAAY more ‘All In’ for a heavy intrigue/ roleplay/ guile/ urban setting AP – all in the backdrop of an Undead kingdom. That sounds really awesome.

.

Can Ron Lundeen or any of the Developers or Authors give us a bit more on this, PRETTY PLEASE?! ....With whipped cream, sprinkles, Cthulhu, and a cherry on top?!

Thanks

The product pages for the first two volumes have been up for a while. Have you read those?

[W E Ray]

Yes.

[Laclale♪]

That was too long way, but waiting for players guide

[keftiu]

Laclale♪ wrote:

That was too long way, but waiting for players guide

Presumably another three months from now.

I’m so curious to see what the Backgrounds are, and how this AP will balance Quick PCs with undead ones, socially.