Hover chairs

[Nimor Starseeker]

How fast are hover chairs?

Also, kudos to the creators of Tech Revolution, I’m totally making a character in a hover chair. Maybe some brain creature…

[John Mangrum]

Hoverchairs use the full land speed of their user (page 51).

[Metaphysician]

John Mangrum wrote:

Hoverchairs use the full land speed of their user (page 51).

. . . okay, I haven't read Tech Revolution yet, but wouldn't that cause problems if their users full land speed is "Zero", as would be presumably the case for most people who'd want to use one in the first place?

[Wesrolter]

I think it means base racial land speed, obviously if you have a condition which prevents you from moving then you won't have a true land speed.

[Perpdepog]

Reminds me of the PF1Ewheelchair, which had the hilarious side-effect of allowing monks to zip around faster than horses, but any merfolk who tried to use one was just as slow as they were flopping around on the ground.

[Ixal]

Sounds a rather strange way to handle it.
Just give them a flat speed of 20 or 30.

[BigNorseWolf]

Perpdepog wrote:

Reminds me of the PF1Ewheelchair, which had the hilarious side-effect of allowing monks to zip around faster than horses, but any merfolk who tried to use one was just as slow as they were flopping around on the ground.

I believe the idea is to have it work exactly we well as someone's legs so that there is no disadvantage for an adventurer that needs one but also no advantage to someone that doesn't need it using it for a speed boost.

[Ixal]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

Reminds me of the PF1Ewheelchair, which had the hilarious side-effect of allowing monks to zip around faster than horses, but any merfolk who tried to use one was just as slow as they were flopping around on the ground.

I believe the idea is to have it work exactly we well as someone's legs so that there is no disadvantage for an adventurer that needs one but also no advantage to someone that doesn't need it using it for a speed boost.

Thats what prosthetics are for which are rather cheap in Starfinder.

Whats more likely is that those chairs would be used like in Wall-E by people who just don't want to walk.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

There ARE people who have intact legs that still aren't able to use them, too. Prosthetics wouldn't help these kinds of people the way a hoverchair would. In fact, I believe our upcoming iconic Precog is one such person.

[Ixal]

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

There ARE people who have intact legs that still aren't able to use them, too. Prosthetics wouldn't help these kinds of people the way a hoverchair would. In fact, I believe our upcoming iconic Precog is one such person.

As there are also nerve replacements in Starfinder (even when you rule that getting a cybernetic leg does not include fixing nerve damage or that nerve damage is not also covered by prosthetics).

That is simply one of the results when you make a futuristic setting and include cyberpunk (or at least the cyber part) content and make it cheap.
And then there is also magic but that is more expensive when you rule that healing nerve damage requires regeneration and is not healed by Mystic Cure or serums.

[BigNorseWolf]

Outside of some very unusual in universe explanations (old family curse that we can't cure) you're right that it doesn't make much sense in universe for hoverhcairs to be a thing. I mean you can sweep Buck Rogers: Tengu captain out of his disintegration proof vest and grow him a new body via reincarnation if you need to.

But this is a game, not speculative fiction for its own sake, and some people want to see this, so they put it in.

[Ixal]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Outside of some very unusual in universe explanations (old family curse that we can't cure) you're right that it doesn't make much sense in universe for hoverhcairs to be a thing. I mean you can sweep Buck Rogers: Tengu captain out of his disintegration proof vest and grow him a new body via reincarnation if you need to.

But this is a game, not speculative fiction for its own sake, and some people want to see this, so they put it in.

Hoverchairs certainly would exist. Just not primarily as futuristic wheelchairs but as normal furniture and/or device for people who simply do not want to walk Wall-E style.

[Arutema]

Some racial or religious customs may prohibit prosthetics. There's at least one SFS scenario where this is discussed.

Also, why force players to play a cyborg, when what they want to play is Professor X?

[Master Han Del of the Web]

There also some assumptions being made here about how people might feel about their disabilities. There is definitely a spectrum in the real world. Alternately, someone might not like the idea of relying on an invasive device or procedure to 'fix' them.

In the RL side of things, a player might want their character to reflect their personal experience as a wheelchair user.

[FormerFiend]

While I personally have no issue with wheelchairs or hover chairs being a part of the game, I also find myself agreeing that the chair's speed just being the base land speed of whoever's sitting in it is... well it's a bit silly. Especially for a hover chair.

If I'm a dwarf who buys a hover chair, cruising along at 20ft, and my nuar friend asks if he can take the chair for a spin & he starts flying around at 40ft, I'd be a little annoyed that I paid a few hundred credits for this thing that is clearly capable of going at 40ft even when carrying a rider significantly larger & heavier than me, but is apparently equipped with an AI that restricts it to half of it's apparent top speed when I'm using it.

[Leon Aquilla]

FormerFiend wrote:

While I personally have no issue with wheelchairs or hover chairs being a part of the game, I also find myself agreeing that the chair's speed just being the base land speed of whoever's sitting in it is... well it's a bit silly. Especially for a hover chair.

If I'm a dwarf who buys a hover chair, cruising along at 20ft, and my nuar friend asks if he can take the chair for a spin & he starts flying around at 40ft, I'd be a little annoyed that I paid a few hundred credits for this thing that is clearly capable of going at 40ft even when carrying a rider significantly larger & heavier than me, but is apparently equipped with an AI that restricts it to half of it's apparent top speed when I'm using it.

In this same vein I don't understand why hover chairs have charges if the intent was to empower paraplegic or otherwise immobile characters (or players!).

I can't think of anything less empowering than a cruel GM saying "Uh oh, looks like John Doe's batteries on his hover chair are failing after 20 hours of spelunking in the caverns of Apostae with no access to a generator -- the lights flicker and dim as the last bits of juice on it fail, turning it into 8 bulk worth of immobile junk, and spilling John catastrophically to the floor. Who's going to pick him up?"

Probably should have been a hybrid/magic item that runs on imagination -- but I suspect word came down from above "5e has a wheelchair splat, so we need to make a wheelchair splat -- what item book do we have coming out next. Tech? Okay, make it a tech item I guess."

Also feel like there's nothing that these items cover which couldn't have probably been covered more fairly with the expanded vehicle rules -- that way you don't suffer from the Nuar/Dwarf quantum superposition paradox.

[BigNorseWolf]

Arutema wrote:

Some racial or religious customs may prohibit prosthetics. There's at least one SFS scenario where this is discussed.

Also, why force players to play a cyborg, when what they want to play is Professor X?

Biological versions of cybernetic upgrades are a 10% surcharge. I pay that for my characters just because I find cyborgs creepy.

[Leon Aquilla]

There is probably a discussion to be had about whether alienation of flesh is a theme that should be explored and if Starfinder even has those tools to explore it available.

Shadowrun, Cyberpunk RED, and other systems in the same vein have ways of measuring just how much a toll not having original limbs/organs takes on your psyche or health. Starfinder seems to take the Rick and Morty approach - regrow a limb like you're microwaving McDonalds, no biggie.

As we've seen recently with 5e struggling to sell splats not related to killing monsters, the main thing d20 seems to be good at reflecting is close, personal combat. Bolt-on systems on top of that are hit or miss.

The only time I recall ever seeing a cybernetic being mentioned in narrative is Commander Najiri in Attack of the Swarm who's trying out her new ankle/foot after having a prosthetic installed. The book says she's trying out her roundhouse kick when the group enters her office so I had her immediately stand at attention and say "I wasn't doing anything.", before sitting down and carrying on like nothing had happened.

[BigNorseWolf]

FormerFiend wrote:

If I'm a dwarf who buys a hover chair, cruising along at 20ft, and my nuar friend asks if he can take the chair for a spin & he starts flying around at 40ft,

Did you consider taking the 4 kegs of ale out?

[BigNorseWolf]

Leon Aquilla wrote:

.

The only time I recall ever seeing a cybernetic being mentioned in narrative is Commander Najiri in Attack of the Swarm who's trying out her new ankle/foot after having a prosthetic installed.

Ziggy (the Star Sugar Heart love loving leader of the starfinder societies exoguardians) is mentioned as being heavily augmented, and still has trouble standing for long periods of time.

The augmented are mentioned a few times as a faction/ social movement, in the tech guide specifically they go in for aesthetics.

[Ixal]

Leon Aquilla wrote:

There is probably a discussion to be had about whether alienation of flesh is a theme that should be explored and if Starfinder even has those tools to explore it available.

Shadowrun, Cyberpunk RED, and other systems in the same vein have ways of measuring just how much a toll not having original limbs/organs takes on your psyche or health. Starfinder seems to take the Rick and Morty approach - regrow a limb like you're microwaving McDonalds, no biggie.

As we've seen recently with 5e struggling to sell splats not related to killing monsters, the main thing d20 seems to be good at reflecting is close, personal combat. Bolt-on systems on top of that are hit or miss.

The only time I recall ever seeing a cybernetic being mentioned in narrative is Commander Najiri in Attack of the Swarm who's trying out her new ankle/foot after having a prosthetic installed. The book says she's trying out her roundhouse kick when the group enters her office so I had her immediately stand at attention and say "I wasn't doing anything.", before sitting down and carrying on like nothing had happened.

A bit late for that as Verces exists.

Also there is a bar on Absolom, I think both mentioned in Pact Worlds and a semi important location in a AP which is run by a pair of heavily augmented people. And when I remember right its implied that this is a lifestyle choice and not result of an accident, although I am not totally sure about that.

[BigNorseWolf]

Leon Aquilla wrote:

Shadowrun, Cyberpunk RED, and other systems in the same vein have ways of measuring just how much a toll not having original limbs/organs takes on your psyche or health. Starfinder seems to take the Rick and Morty approach - regrow a limb like you're microwaving McDonalds, no biggie.

If you WANT your soul eaten parts is parts necrografts around the corner is having a sale. Along with financing plans should you default and have any...spares.