Staff Change Update from Paizo President Jeff Alvarez

[Shroud]

If there is a legitimate problem, those employees affected should address it with the Washington State Labor Board. Period. End of Story. Until such an action is resolved, anything else is mere speculation and a lot of 'he said - she said' between disgruntled employees (who would NEVER exaggerate things) and a company (which has legal restrictions on what they can and cannot say regarding employees).

It is ridiculous to run around screaming for resignations, corporate restructuring, reparations, etc... when NOTHING has yet been proven.

I have no doubt that events occurred that some may have found offensive. Whether or not they were over-reacting to minor things because of a pre-existing bias, or if they were acting appropriately to events that caused actual, tangible harm is something none of us know until ALL the evidence has had time to come to the surface.....and that is NOT going to happen for quite some time.

There are VERY few times in history where one side of any problem is blameless.

I give Paizo a ton of money for great products, and for no other reason. Their internal difficulties are their own business and there are legal recourses for aggrieved parties. Public forum is NOT the place for it.

[Redelia]

Are you saying that it is wrong for me, as a customer, to hold a company to a standard any higher than just following the law? That is nonsense.

This is not about proof beyond a reasonable doubt criminal conviction, is is about more-likely-than-not. I don't want to give my money to a company that probably acts this way. And my money is mine to spend as I choose. I also choose to let the company know why I am not spending money, so that they can decide if they want to change in order to get my money. They are as free to ignore me, and my money, as I am to state my position.

[Anorak]

Redelia wrote:

Are you saying that it is wrong for me, as a customer, to hold a company to a standard any higher than just following the law? That is nonsense.

This is not about proof beyond a reasonable doubt criminal conviction, is is about more-likely-than-not. I don't want to give my money to a company that probably acts this way. And my money is mine to spend as I choose. I also choose to let the company know why I am not spending money, so that they can decide if they want to change in order to get my money. They are as free to ignore me, and my money, as I am to state my position.

Understandable. If you do pull support, see if you can redirect it to those affected directly. I believe there is a list going around with peoples websites, patreons and what not.

[Elegos]

Anorak wrote:

Elegos wrote:

I'm deeply disappointed by the developments and revelations, and more so by Paizo's awful response.

I'm not saying I'll never give them any money again, or that I'm burning all my books or anything like that, but I am done acting as an ambassador for them. I've spent a lot of time and energy pushing and driving to create a starfinder community in the UK, with an emphasis on inclusively. It's hard to summon up any enthusiasm for that going forward unless Paizo can make some clear changes and address the very reasonable concerns going forward.

I doubt I'll be purchasing any of their upcoming content. Which is a shame, I was strongly considering getting into PF2.

I hope Paizo can restore trust. I want to support them. I want to be able to get excited about the upcoming Starfinder books.

Id caution to pause. Paizo is not its Managers, it is the Community, the Creators, Developers, editors, etc. I know cutting support may feel right but at the same time, it may do more harm than good. I don't mean product either. I mean peoples livelihoods. Creative work is hard enough to work in without worrying you may not get paid because support for content dried up because of S~#@ty Managers.

Like I say, I'm not taking any hasty action. Just saying that I don't feel I can honestly and stridently push the game and company as I have in the past, and that this puts a severe damper on the excitement I had. I should be over the moon about Pathfinder and Starfinder Infinite. I was heavily involved in the precog playtest and was incredibly excited for Galactic Magic. As it is, I just feel disheartened. It's not about punishment or whatever, and I want to emphasise that I don't think less of anyone who chooses not to boycott. I believe Crystal Frasier said as much in one of her tweet threads. Paizo have made excellent products, but it is hard to enjoy them knowing this.

Honestly what I really would want to see at a minimum would be a robust overhaul in Paizos accountability and internal procedures. I would really prefer Paizo avoided becoming another Bon Appetit where management's reaction to a scandal tanks the brand in a way even worse then the original scandal

[thejeff]

Cthulhusquatch wrote:

H2Osw wrote:

GGSigmar wrote:

H2Osw wrote:

Jason released a statement, someone posted it on the pathfinder rpg discord. It's really well written and he does point to internal issues.

A new statement or the one that was basically "no comment"?

new: Jason Statement.

Like Erik Mona's.. it actually brings up actual points.

It's a good statement. A very careful one it seems.

It does skip over one of the most worrying claims Price made though, that he actually retaliated after being refused:

Quote:

Almost immediately, however, I began having trouble getting information out of his department (given that I was managing the production schedule, this was a problem).

Finally, Mona and I went to talk to his team while he was out of town.

His team told us Bulmahn had instructed them not to talk to me, give me updates, etc. They did not know why.

Mona expressed his disappointment to me that what had seemed like a good working relationship with Bulmahn and his department had somehow gone south

[Andy Brown]

thejeff wrote:

Cthulhusquatch wrote:

H2Osw wrote:

GGSigmar wrote:

H2Osw wrote:

Jason released a statement, someone posted it on the pathfinder rpg discord. It's really well written and he does point to internal issues.

A new statement or the one that was basically "no comment"?

new: Jason Statement.

Like Erik Mona's.. it actually brings up actual points.

It's a good statement. A very careful one it seems.

It does skip over one of the most worrying claims Price made though, that he actually retaliated after being refused:

Quote:

Almost immediately, however, I began having trouble getting information out of his department (given that I was managing the production schedule, this was a problem).

Finally, Mona and I went to talk to his team while he was out of town.

His team told us Bulmahn had instructed them not to talk to me, give me updates, etc. They did not know why.

Mona expressed his disappointment to me that what had seemed like a good working relationship with Bulmahn and his department had somehow gone south

He did kind of talk around that one, where he's saying he felt his team was being treated badly, which resulted in them not working effectively with other departments.

I note both Erik and JB point out how hard it is to prove a negative in these cases; not suggesting there's a coordinated response going on or anything...

[Anorak]

So it seems Sara MArie got pissed today, unlocked her private settings and blasted Jessica Price for being a clout chaser:

Former Paizo Customer Service & Community Manager, Sara Marie, was fired for unknown reasons. Sara's Twitter account is private, but she made an announcement on Twitter. No allegations of wrongdoing by Paizo were made on the thread or subsequent ones so far. She has expressed love for former coworkers and the community. Sara has since stated she is upset "decade long allies for improving industry workplace standards are getting ripped into because a clout-chaser seized on another opportunity to drag themselves into someone else’s story," but is not providing additional details about her situation or any of the allegations.

[Sporkedup]

I can't access her twitter, but I'm hearing Sara Marie finally weighed in a bit and she is not agreeing with Jessica, at least on some points. Anyone able to confirm? I think her voice is worth amplifying, if she does want to be amplified.

[zeonsghost]

Andy Brown wrote:

He did kind of talk around that one, where he's saying he felt his team was being treated badly, which resulted in them not working effectively with other departments.

I note both Erik and JB point out how hard it is to prove a negative in these cases; not suggesting there's a coordinated response going on or anything...

They'd be stupid not be coordinated. Not gonna say they'd rather talk about developer issues where there's "nothing to prove" than their CS leadership's ongoing ineptitude.

[Paulyhedron]

Anorak wrote:

So it seems Sara MArie got pissed today, unlocked her private settings and blasted Jessica Price for being a clout chaser:

Former Paizo Customer Service & Community Manager, Sara Marie, was fired for unknown reasons. Sara's Twitter account is private, but she made an announcement on Twitter. No allegations of wrongdoing by Paizo were made on the thread or subsequent ones so far. She has expressed love for former coworkers and the community. Sara has since stated she is upset "decade long allies for improving industry workplace standards are getting ripped into because a clout-chaser seized on another opportunity to drag themselves into someone else’s story," but is not providing additional details about her situation or any of the allegations.

You can't write this stuff.

[MadamReshi]

Can we have an actual source where Sara Marie wrote this?

[Guntermench]

MadamReshi wrote:

Can we have an actual source where Sara Marie wrote this?

It says her Twitter. Which is private, but I'm sure someone can see it.

[Yoshua]

Anorak wrote:

So it seems Sara MArie got pissed today, unlocked her private settings and blasted Jessica Price for being a clout chaser:

Former Paizo Customer Service & Community Manager, Sara Marie, was fired for unknown reasons. Sara's Twitter account is private, but she made an announcement on Twitter. No allegations of wrongdoing by Paizo were made on the thread or subsequent ones so far. She has expressed love for former coworkers and the community. Sara has since stated she is upset "decade long allies for improving industry workplace standards are getting ripped into because a clout-chaser seized on another opportunity to drag themselves into someone else’s story," but is not providing additional details about her situation or any of the allegations.

Thank you for sharing. This still doesn't alleviate the issues with her being dismissed. Those directly responsible are who I have focused on. Which would likely be the 2 unnamed managers that Diego referenced about his exit.

I am still calling on President Jeff Alvarez who is, at the end of the day, responsible for all workplace conditions to be held accountable as well as the firing manager.

I truly appreciate Sara Marie for being brave enough to make a comment at all. It feels like a gut punch when you are unexpectedly unemployed and I can only imagine the emotional roller coaster she is on at the moment.

My original post from this morning:
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43h04&page=7?Staff-Change-Update-from-Paiz o-President-Jeff#335

Go to Jeff Alvarez doxxed community members..

[Anorak]

MadamReshi wrote:

Can we have an actual source where Sara Marie wrote this?

It's on her twitter. Here is a megathread compiling everything. Start from the top. https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/pp3gdi/compendium_of_allegat ions_against_paizo_management/

[Cori Marie]

I can confirm the thread from Sara Marie today.

[Cthulhusquatch]

Guntermench wrote:

MadamReshi wrote:

Can we have an actual source where Sara Marie wrote this?

It says her Twitter. Which is private, but I'm sure someone can see it.

I can... but I'm not reposting anything from a private Twitter.

[Cyouni]

Cori Marie wrote:

I can confirm the thread from Sara Marie today.

I have absolutely no idea where this is going but it's certainly...interesting.

[Anorak]

Cyouni wrote:

Cori Marie wrote:

I can confirm the thread from Sara Marie today.

I have absolutely no idea where this is going but it's certainly...interesting.

Think Sara summed it up correctly. Someone tried to hijack Sara's story, which is why we should be here. Supporting Sara and Diego while as consumers calling for change/improvements to made at Paizo.