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I'm gonna be in a gestalt Kingmaker-esque (open world exploration, kingdom founding, possible large scale war) campaign soon, and I find myself at a loss. I wanted to take a more supplementary route than I'm used to, usually favoring sneaky assassin types, so I locked myself in to play a Vitalist. I like the life leech and sadist combo, and I want to make the character have kind of a blood manipulation concept.
The problem comes with the second class, I didn't realize how active the vitalist actually is being able to use every action every round and often not having room for a lot of other things. Unfortunately, I have already generated stats and am locked in to them (we played a game with M&Ms and wouldn't be able to re do the game without re doing everyones stats).
Stats are as follows-
Str-10
Dex-18
Con-14
Int-12
Wis-18
Cha-9
leaning toward Elan as race to add +2 to wisdom and to have aberrant subtype, which can get me fast healing with a feat later on.
Other players are as follows:
Alchemist//Magus -concept: Mounted gunner
Cavalier//Druid/Mammoth Rider -concept: Huge monster rider
Witch//Mesmerist -concept: Halfling jinx debuffer
Brawler//Ninja -concept: Mortal combat brutal fist fighter
Allowed material is all pathfinder, 3.5, and dreamscarred press material. Right now I'm leaning toward either psionic Wilder (contemplative archetype),akashic Guru (sineater philosophy), or path of war Medic (sanguinist archetype). Medic has the best feel for concept, but initiators are another heavy action use class. Wilder would give me godlike psionic power, but the chasse sucks (3/4 Bab, 2 good saves, 2 skills per level), and guru is... I don't know much about akashia, but it could still fit the concept with the whole chakra control through blood manipulation.
I'm open to any help I can get and can answer any questions. I'm not limited to these options (except the stats and vitalist) so throw any ideas you can at me. Thanks in advance!
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The first way to narrow things down is to look at a vitalists' weaknesses: poor reflex, poor BAB, 2 skill points base. Usually unimpressive classes like a swashbuckler or rogue (or some slightly better ones: investigator, slayer) could work for passive bonuses. Those are usually easy to work into a concept too.
I think you've covered the obvious psionic synergies, but note that you might consider some psionic prestige class past level 5 - you wouldn't normally consider sighted seeker or war mind for example, but if it's on a class you don't care about advancing particularly it's more possible.
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Ranger is Wisdom-based, has BAB, has skills, and fixes your saves. The spells are so-so, they are what you make of them, or can be traded away for Skirmisher tricks (also Wisdom-based). Favored Enemy/Favored Terrain both do not require actions.
UnMonk is Wisdom-based, has BAB, has a few more skills, and fixes your saves. The Ki Pool is so-so, it is what you make of it, but at least it's Wisdom-based. Many of the Monk abilities do not require extra actions.
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The first way to narrow things down is to look at a vitalists' weaknesses: poor reflex, poor BAB, 2 skill points base. Usually unimpressive classes like a swashbuckler or rogue (or some slightly better ones: investigator, slayer) could work for passive bonuses. Those are usually easy to work into a concept too.
Agreed. I'm not too worried about the BAB or the reflex save (reflex saves are usually just damage) , but I would love to have more skill points. Is there a wisdom-based swashbuckler?
I think you've covered the obvious psionic synergies, but note that you might consider some psionic prestige class past level 5 - you wouldn't normally consider sighted seeker or war mind for example, but if it's on a class you don't care about advancing particularly it's more possible.
I'm gonna have to look at psionic prestige classes. That would certainly make wilder more tolerable.
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Ranger is Wisdom-based, has BAB, has skills, and fixes your saves. The spells are so-so, they are what you make of them, or can be traded away for Skirmisher tricks (also Wisdom-based). Favored Enemy/Favored Terrain both do not require actions.
UnMonk is Wisdom-based, has BAB, has a few more skills, and fixes your saves. The Ki Pool is so-so, it is what you make of it, but at least it's Wisdom-based. Many of the Monk abilities do not require extra actions.
Ranger does have a beautiful chassis, but, for the life of me, I can't find a good one that fits to theme. Also, we have 2 animal companions and a familiar as is. I don't want to bog down initiative any more than I have to.
On the other hand, I've considered monk extensively. The problem it comes down to on monk is I don't wish to step on the toes of the brawler//ninja (same reason I won't pick rogue). He's kind of a new player and I want to give him the spotlight with his build, overlapping as little as possible. Hell, he'd be playing a scaled fist monk if he could figure out how to play anything remotely lawful.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Agreed. I'm not too worried about the BAB or the reflex save (reflex saves are usually just damage) , but I would love to have more skill points. Is there a wisdom-based swashbuckler?
Not exactly. There is the kata master monk which gets Cha min 1 panache, but then can use (wis-based) ki to power deeds; or dipping both swashbuckler and gunslinger does something similar but a little better.
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When in doubt, Freebooter... always, Freebooter.
Don't know what to do? HELP YOUR FRIENDS!
If you don't have a use for the Ranger's spellcasting, combine Freebooter with Skirmisher...
I'm sure a Soultheif Vitalist spamming Hammer (via Expanded Knowledge?) can find a use for Skirmisher tricks...
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Path of War Stalker is a Wis-based class, with a ninja-esque theme and 6+Int Skill points. It also has a martial discipline, called Steel Serpent, that involves corrupting enemies ki and acts like poisons. (It also adds Wis Mod to Reflex saves and Initiative, in addition to Dex Mod)
There are a number of abilities that'll use your Power Points, so a more martial pairing will help do damage while keeping power points in reserve for healing/Vitalist abilities.
Originally I had planned the other class to be a maneuver user, but I was leaning toward the sanguinist medic. That's when I realized how action starved the build would be. I still might consider either stalker or medic if I can't find something that meshes better.
I just found out the Dread has an archetype that switches them to wisdom. Anyone have any experience with this class?
Can't really help with the Dread class as I've never really played them before. I can help with the Akashic classes, as they're basically 3.5's Incarnum ruleset that got "updated" over to PF1e; they tend to generate magical "items" that can do a variety of mostly all-day effects [some exceptions may apply] depending upon certain magic item body slots on the body [hands, chest, feet, etc.], if I've got things correctly. ;)
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A dread is a one-trick pony written up as a class. As one side of a gestalt that focus might not be a problem, but action economy will be - they want their standard actions as much as most, and you're not going to be a weapon user who can add fear effects as a rider, right?
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Can't really help with the Dread class as I've never really played them before. I can help with the Akashic classes, as they're basically 3.5's Incarnum ruleset that got "updated" over to PF1e; they tend to generate magical "items" that can do a variety of mostly all-day effects [some exceptions may apply] depending upon certain magic item body slots on the body [hands, chest, feet, etc.], if I've got things correctly. ;)
Does binding still take up magic item slots? Would a guru be a good fit for the vitalist?
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A dread is a one-trick pony written up as a class. As one side of a gestalt that focus might not be a problem, but action economy will be - they want their standard actions as much as most, and you're not going to be a weapon user who can add fear effects as a rider, right?
Damn. I really like this as a concept, too. Blood and fear, adrenaline manipulation. Would even have my psionic feats pulling double duty for both classes. But, yeah, if I'm action starved until 11th level, it might not be too good.
Does binding still take up magic item slots? Would a guru be a good fit for the vitalist?
My own, top-of-the-head, inclination would be that there's no real interference between Akashic binding and wearing magical items- given that it'd be a class feature for an Akashic class; so not any different than a Chakra-using monk archetype using magic items.
Or if there are any limitations between the two, it'd probably be listed as being a specific thing to that given veil power [in case there are any...].
PS. a Guru should be a fine class to pair with a Vitalist; depending on the type of weapon veil chosen, you'd potentially be able to attack at a full BAB. ;p
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I would go Vitalist + Psychic Warrior, and pump Wisdom up to 20. You'll get a crapton of PP per day with both classes feeding you PP, and with a 20 in Wisdom, you can take Blind Fight ---> Intuitive Fighting, which causes you to use your Wisdom Mod to Attack rolls. Vitalists attack Touch AC, so with a 3/4 BAB class and Wis to Attack, you'll hit on almost every attack.
Vitalists are both Feat-Starved and Powers-Known-Starved, and PsyWar is a perfect compliment to this class in gestalt because you get 3/4 BAB, more PP per day (x2 PP classes + high Wis affects both classes), as well as bonus combat feats. As an added bonus, you get d8 health and 4 + Int skills as well, but this isn't terribly important. Also, don't worry about your saves. Your Reflex is in the dumpster, but tbh, it doesn't matter. Fortify and Defensive Precognition can be augmented to put your saves in the clouds, and Evade Burst is basically Evasion, and with Mettle/ImpMettle from the Survivor Path, you basically have Evasion/ImpEvasion but for Fort/Will saves.
Survivor Path
You are capable of surviving in harsh environments and enduring deadly assaults. You recognize the power of he body’s ability to overcome even the most deadly of afflictions.
Powers: catfall, vigor
Skills: Autohypnosis, Heal, Survival
Bonus class skill: Survival
Trance: Beginning at 3rd level, while maintaining psionic focus, you gain DR 2/-. This damage reduction improves by 1 evey four psychic warrior levels thereafter. In addition, you suffer no harm from being in a hot or cold environment. You can exist comfortably in conditions between -50 and 140 degrees Fahrenheit without having to make Fortitude saves. Your equipment is likewise protected. This doesn’t provide any protection from fire or cold damage, nor does it protect against other environmental hazards such as smoke, lack of air, and so forth.
Maneuver: Beginning at 3rd level, you can expend your psionic focus as an immediate action to be treated as having the Mettle ability until the beginning of your next turn. At 7th level and every four psychic warrior levels beyond, you gain a +1 competence bonus to Will saves when using this maneuver. In addition, at 11th level, when using this maneuver, you are treated as having the Improved Mettle ability.
Mettle and Improved Mettle
Mettle (Ex): You are able to resist effects with great willpower of fortitude. If you succeed on a Fortitude or Will save against an effect with a partial effect on a successful save, you instead suffer no effects from the attack.
Improved Mettle (Ex): You are incredibly resistant to effects that assault the body or mind. If you succeed on a Fortitude or Will save against an effect with a partial effect on a successful save, you instead suffer no effects from the attack. If you fail the save, you instead suffer the partial effect.
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I'd go:
Soulthief Vitalist Method
A soulthief vitalist of 2nd level who utilizes transfer wounds can choose to instead deal the amount of damage that transfer wounds would normally heal plus the soulthief’s class level to the target, healing himself a number of hit points equal to the damage dealt. A soulthief may not heal more hit points than the touched creature had prior to using this ability.
This ability may only be used on creatures with a Constitution score and may not be used against creatures in the soulthief’s collective. A soulthief may use this ability on creatures with a total number of hit dice less than half his vitalist level, but he gains no healing from it.
This is your primary way of causing damage and healing because it's essentially free; it costs no PP; and you'll cause Xd6 + your level as damage, and then heal yourself for the total damage you inflict, but you're allowed to redistribute all of that healing throughout your collective as you see fit via Collective Healing (Su), even if you're currently at full health. Elans get +1/2 xfer wounds per day, so this is really good. With Intuitive Fighting at level 2, your accuracy with Xfer Wounds goes up a ton.
Level 1
Feat- Psicrystal Affinity
Bonus Feat- Blind Fight
Vitalist Powers Known- 2 Collapse (free), Natural Healing, Synesthete
PsyWar Powers Known- 1 Inertial Armor
Level 2
Feat- N/A
Bonus Feat- Intuitive Fighting
Vitalist Powers Known- 0
PsyWar Powers Known- 1 Fortify
Level 3
Feat- Any Feat
Bonus Feat- N/A
Vitalist Powers Known- 1 Share Pain
PsyWar Powers Known- 1 Defensive Precognition
With Inertial Armor, Fortify, and Def Precog, your Saves and AC are dominantly good.
Also, Vigor + Share Powers w/ Psicrystal = you both get vigor (and you vigor everyone in your collective) and then Share Pain on your Psicrystal causes all damage to be split in 1/2 between you, while vigor soaks it all up. Once your Temp HP goes away, re-manifest Vigor. If anyone took any real damage, manifest Natural Healing. Ezpz.
Level 4
Feat- N/A
Bonus Feat- N/A
Vitalist Powers Known- 0
PsyWar Powers Known- 1 Detect Hostile Intent <----- No save, this is really good. Manifest this in Taverns, Dungeon Crawls, and any time you think there's a stealthy backstabber nearby.
Level 5
Feat- Psionic Meditation
Bonus Feat- Expanded Knowledge Energy Missile
Vitalist Powers Known- 1 Solicit Psicrystal <--- can't use this just yet, but we will once we have Telekinetic Maneuver
PsyWar Powers Known- 1 Hustle
Level 6
Feat- N/A
Bonus Feat- N/A
Vitalist Powers Known- 0
PsyWar Powers Known- 1 Psionic Lion's Charge, Animal Affinity, or Body Purification
Level 7
Feat- Expanded Knowledge Metamorphosis
Bonus Feat- N/A
Vitalist Powers Known- 1 Physical Acceleration
PsyWar Powers Known- 1 Concealing Amorpha, Greater
Metamorphosis is easily one of the most versatile powers in the game. It also counters one of the major weaknesses of Psionics, which is Flying. Psionics has no Fly or Invis -equivalent powers, but with this power you can fly if you want to.
Level 8
Feat- N/A
Bonus Feat- Expanded Knowledge Concussive Onslaught
Vitalist Powers Known- 0
PsyWar Powers Known- 1 Ectoplasmic Grapnel
Level 9
Feat- Psicrystal Containment
Bonus Feat (from Vitalist)- Expanded Knowledge Telekinetic Maneuver <--- NOW you can use Solicit Psicrystal. Manifest TM as a standard, and then Swift Action transfer the concentration to your Psicrystal.
Vitalist Powers Known- 1 Psionic Revivify
PsyWar Powers Known- 1 Evade Burst
Choose Brawling Path as your 2nd PsyWar Path, and now you can get Hammer and Grip of Iron for free. You can also manifest Hammer via Martial Power, so I would recommend getting a Warblade Staff, Greater by now, then you can manifest Hammer through the weapon for lots of extra damage. Hammer can be placed on your Psicrystal via Share Powers, and then you strike the enemy with your Psicrystal.
Level 10
Feat- N/A
Bonus Feat- Empower Power
Vitalist Powers Known- 0
PsyWar Powers Known- 1 Fold Space
Level 11
Feat- Expanded Knowledge Psychoport
Bonus Feat- N/A
Vitalist Powers Known- 1 Heal Injuries <---- This is where your healing gets straight up out of control, because you manifest that once, but since it is [Healing] Subdiscipline it affects every member of your collective automatically due to Vitalist's Medic Powers class ability, and then you can redistribute the healing gained as you see fit via Collective Healing (Su), even if it overheals them or if they're already at full health. Re... ...donk.
PsyWar Powers Known- 1 Slip the Bonds
Use a Mind Stone to pick up Empathic Transfer, Hostile by level 11. The Soulthief Expertise turns HET into a 30ft range nuke, and at ML11, you can manifest it for 5pp and augment it 6pp to have it become a 20ft PBAoE nuke that causes your missing health as damage. Basically, if you're surrounded by enemies and you're hurt, hit 'em with an 11pp HET and trade their health to yourself. Don't hit your allies.
Level 12
Feat- N/A
Bonus Feat- N/A
Vitalist Powers Known- 0
PsyWar Powers Known- 1 Energy Adaptation
Level 13
Feat- Maximize Power
Bonus Feat- N/A
Vitalist Powers Known- 1 Bend Reality
PsyWar Powers Known- 1 Any 5th lvl power
Level 14
Feat- N/A
Bonus Feat- Quicken Power
Vitalist Powers Known- 1 Any 7th lvl power
PsyWar Powers Known- 1 Any 5th lvl power
Level 15
Feat- Power Perfection - Whatever your favorite Empowered, Maximized, or Quickened Power is
Bonus Feat- N/A
Vitalist Powers Known- 1 Barred Mind
PsyWar Powers Known- 1 Any 5th lvl power
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Also, I'd recommend picking up Mind Stones for whatever powers you didn't pick up naturally thru progression. Any power you choose via this way must appear on your class list, and you can only have a number of mind stones = to 1/2 your total powers known, so choose carefully. You can have as many Greater Mind Stones as you want though, but they're 2x as expensive.
Other highly recommended powers that appear on Vitalist/PsyWar lists (use Mind Stones to get these): Chameleon, Force Screen, Inevitable Strike, Offensive Prescience, Offensive Precognition, Skate, Thicken Skin, Biofeedback, Endorphin Surge, Expansion, Circumstance Shield, Sidestep, Deflect, Dimension Slide, Preserve Psyche, Detect Compulsion, Psychic Bodyguard, Forced Share Pain, Body Adjustment
Green and White Ioun Stone is basically the same as Expanded Knowledge feat, except you can choose a power that is equal to your current Manifesting level. You don't have to choose a power 1 level below you like you do with Expanded Knowledge.
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Btw, Con doesn't help Vitalists very much. Your primary form of staying alive is Vigor. Think of it like a Hit Point Shield that you can manifest endlessly until you're out of PP.
As an example:
Let's say you're a d8 Vitalist/PsyWar with 0 con modifier, and you're level 10 with a wisdom 22 (6 mod) and you've taken 3.5 HP each level. That would put you at 8 + 4(x9) = 44 HP. You have 88 PP from lvl 10 Vitalist, 28 PP from level 10 PsyWar, + 30PP(x2) for having a high Wis score, for a total of 176PP. Your ML is 10 with no items, feats, or traits boosting your ML (speaking of which, consider getting the trait Psi-gifted for a +1ML to Vigor), so you could manifest Vigor for 50 HP for 10PP.
You have 44 HP, your Psicrystal has 22 HP. You can have 6 members in your collective, so including yourself that's 7 people. You manifest 50 HP x 7 people = 350 Temp HP, and with Psicrystal Share Powers your Psicrystal also gains 50 Temp HP. You're also Sharing Pain with your Psicrystal, so any damage you take is immediately halved.
You have 176 PP, so in theory, you could manifest 400 HP to everyone in your group 17 rounds in a row. And that comes to the ridiculous total of 6,800 temp HP (in theory) per day. If anyone takes damage, Xfer wounds to dmg an enemy, and collective healing that guy. If anyone takes a lot of damage, manifest Natural Healing (augment it as high as you need) throughout your collective, and then take aaaaall of that healing and triage it to that one guy. And then throw up Vigor again.
Vitalists are redork.
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One last thing I forgot, is get the Network Power Metapsionic Power. You can spend your Psi Focus and 4PP to make any "Range: Personal, Target: You" power affect your entire collective. So that's Burst, Chameleon, Force Screen, Defensive Precognition, Fortify, Inertial Armor, etc. All the good stuff that you give yourself, now you can give it to your group with Network Power.
As far as "where" to include that in the build I proffered earlier, you could probably do away with Maximize Power at level 13. Network Power costs 4pp, which leaves 9pp for augmenting, and by level 13-ish, any level 1 or level 2 power would become totally worth it to buff your entire collective with 9pp-worth of augments at that point.