grenny72 |
I want to make a PFS legal elven archer that can cast spells on his bow for ranged damage who doesn't stink too much at either magic or archery. I know i will be sacrificing BAB or CLs to do this. I know there are various options like fighter/wizard/arcane archer route, or the eldritch knight route, the pala-sorcerer route or even the magus-myrmidarch route. Most of the threads i looked at are years old and i am not sure if those answers/info are still viable. Some questions though:
1. Does the Myrmidarch archetype get to use the ranged spellstrike with bows? If not can any archetype of the various classes do that?
2. why does the arcane archer stink over eldritch knight?
3. what makes the EK so appealing?
Thanks in advance.
avr |
The eldritch archer magus isn't PFS-legal. Arrowsong minstrel's diminished spellcasting makes them kind of stink at magic. A plain bard (or sorrowsong perhaps) going into arcane archer is better in many ways.
OTOH another means is an alchemist using the explosive missile discovery - perhaps an antiquarian if you want undeniable spellcasting rather than the alchemist's not-quite version.
One of the problems with arcane archer is the prereqs. As a fighter/wizard it seems to expect you to go fighter 5-6 / wizard 1-2 to meet the BAB prereq, if you want near full casting you have to wait more levels. A bard 8 / arcane archer 2 or arrowsong minstrel bard 6 / arcane archer 2 is easier to make work at a reasonable level.
Dragonchess Player |
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There are several options that "don't stink." However, they may not be able to do everything when it comes to "fusing... bow with magic."
As far as your questions:
1) By strict RAW, a myrmidarch needs a free hand to cast which prevents them from using a bow with Ranged Spellstrike ("You need two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size."); myrmidarch isn't bad for a melee/thrown switch-hitter, though. The eldritch archer archetype explicitly allows casting while using a bow, but it's not PFS legal.
2) The original version of arcane archer (3.0/3.5) didn't advance spellcasting at all. It was more of a "shoot magical arrows" PrC at first than a "mix combat and spellcasting" PrC like the eldritch knight.
3) As mentioned, full BAB and 9/10 caster progression.
As far as being able to add "magical" effects to arrows on the fly, there are only a few options:
- Alchemist (grenadier archetype?) with the Explosive Missile discovery. Pros: fairly straightforward and, with other discoveries to change energy types and add other effects to bombs, fairly versatile. Cons: BAB is only moderate and bombs are not as effective/powerful as spells.
- Arcane archer. Personally, I prefer [full BAB class]* 1/wizard 6/eldritch knight 2/arcane archer 3/eldritch knight +8. Pros: +17 BAB and spell progression as a 17th-level wizard over 20 levels. Cons: can't use Imbue Arrow until 12th character level.
- Arrowsong minstrel bard/arcane archer. Specifically, bard (arrowsong minstrel) 8/arcane archer 2/bard +10. Pros: can add single target or area effect spells to arrows. Cons: BAB is only moderate, the bard spell list (even with Arcane Archery) is very limited on appropriate spells, and shooting multiple arrows with magical effects is only possible at 20th character level.
- Eldritch archer magus/arcane archer (not PFS-legal). Magus (eldritch archer) 9 (for Close Range)/arcane archer 3/magus +8. Pros: can use Ranged Spellstrike at 1st level, can add single target or area effect spells to arrows, much better spell list for adding spells to arrows than arrowsong minstrel. Cons: BAB is only moderate, will probably be feat and magus arcana starved because of "must-haves."
- Hinterlander (not PFS-legal). Pros: entrance requirements (other than alignment and worshiping Erastil) are easier than arcane archer, can be entered from any spellcasting class (not just arcane), 9/10 caster progression, pretty good special abilities (including bonus feats). Cons: only +3/4 BAB, can't use Imbue Arrow until 12th character level (if entered as soon as qualifications are met after 5th level).
*- usually fighter for the bonus feat or ranger for Favored Enemy (themed campaign) or Ranger's Focus (guide archetype) and the ability to use spell trigger items of ranger spells (like cure light wounds, barkskin, etc.) without UMD checks
Temperans |
Okay, the biggest problem with Arcane Archer builds is that its too easy to lose your path in what you build. As an archer there are a ton of feats you want. As a mage there are a lot of spells than tend to have priority over AoE. All that is before we even go into the different combinations that are possible.
So the question, what exactly are you looking for in the build? Is it a martial that can use spells to buff yourself? Is it a mage delivery spells from a distance? Or is it a sort of hybrid trying to do a bit of both?
In all cases first worry about landing your arrows and dealing relevant damage without magic. Your magic will be slow to come by, and more something for the mid/late game. Also make sure to search for good spells, there are a lot of spells that get skipped but that could work wonders if used correctly. Ex: You can theoretically trigger a bunch of runes of explosions by attaching them to an arrow imbued with dispel magic. Is it more complicated than just using fireball? Yeah. Can they be stored indefinitely and loaded such that 1 arrow contains multiple? Also yeah.
Derklord |
Essentially I am looking for an elf character that can shoot arrows fairly effectively and enchant some of them with magic spells.
But what does "enchant some of them with magic spells" mean? Have offensive spells carried with arrows? Or does that (also) mean using spells to buff yourself so that your arrows do more damage?
1) By strict RAW, a myrmidarch needs a free hand to cast which prevents them from using a bow with Ranged Spellstrike ("You need two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size.")
Actually, it doesn't. Per this FAQ, un-grippign and re-gripping a weapon are free actions, and since the attack is doen after the casting is already finished, a Myrmidarch can indeed use Ranged Spellstrike with a bow (and logically, the second hand is only on the bow when actually shooting it). This does not work with Spell Combat, which says it requires a free hand (throughout the whole action), but it should also work with the 11th level upgrade to Ranged Spellstrike.
VoodistMonk |
What is the bare minimum you consider necessary for the archery side not to stink?
PBS, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and Clustered Shots?
What is the bare minimum you consider necessary for the mage side not to stink?
Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, Varisian Tattoo?
An Industrious Urbanite, Overwhelming Magic Elf can start with Spell Focus Conjuration, AND Spell Focus Evocation... that covers pretty much everything you will likely be attaching to arrows.
If you just want to infuse the bow with magic, instead of the arrows, then Divine Bond, Scared Weapon, etc...
Lelomenia |
As an option that i think would actually be good as an elf that casts spells and uses a bow,
Consider Occultist? Maybe Haunt Collector. Physical Enhancement/Legacy Weapon/Seance Boon/Spirit Bonus all come
online almost right out of the gate, and the Elf Occultist FCB is great (and Elf ability scores are perfect).
strayshift |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What is the bare minimum you consider necessary for the archery side not to stink?
PBS, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and Clustered Shots?
What is the bare minimum you consider necessary for the mage side not to stink?
Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, Varisian Tattoo?
An Industrious Urbanite, Overwhelming Magic Elf can start with Spell Focus Conjuration, AND Spell Focus Evocation... that covers pretty much everything you will likely be attaching to arrows.
If you just want to infuse the bow with magic, instead of the arrows, then Divine Bond, Scared Weapon, etc...
Throw in Favoured Prestige Class and Prestigious Spellcaster - those 2 feats revolutionise some prestige classes (Eldritch Knight for example can lose just 1 caster level versus a full arcane caster).
Lelomenia |
VoodistMonk wrote:Throw in Favoured Prestige Class and Prestigious Spellcaster - those 2 feats revolutionise some prestige classes (Eldritch Knight for example can lose just 1 caster level versus a full arcane caster).What is the bare minimum you consider necessary for the archery side not to stink?
PBS, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and Clustered Shots?
What is the bare minimum you consider necessary for the mage side not to stink?
Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus, Varisian Tattoo?
An Industrious Urbanite, Overwhelming Magic Elf can start with Spell Focus Conjuration, AND Spell Focus Evocation... that covers pretty much everything you will likely be attaching to arrows.
If you just want to infuse the bow with magic, instead of the arrows, then Divine Bond, Scared Weapon, etc...
prestigious spellcaster isn’t PFS legal.