Fun witchwaprers?


General Discussion


Howdy!

So I don't see this class talked about m uch.

Does anyone have some cool stories, or neat tricks, and such for t he class?

I feel it has really cool unique spells.

I also really like that combo with Swap Paradigms, and Eldritch Secrets. Where you could use swap paradigm to grab a utility spell off of tech or mystic spell lists. Costs a standard action, and then a standard and Resolve after the first time. But its fantastic utilty and really gives some great fluffing. Drawing from experiences of "other yous" and borrowing their stuff.

So basicallly.... I'm curious if folks have any f un ideas, builds, stories with Witchwarpers~

Though I do infact hate them as Charsiam casters; but that has more to do with me and cha casters. Feel like they work better as Wis casters; but thats homebrew

Radiant Oath

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I've got one I'm preparing for the next time someone holds a recruitment for The Threefold Conspiracy AP, drawing inspiration from the new He-Man shows interpretation of Orko:

She's a vesk who comes from a long line of venomthought vesk that served as psychic special ops for the Veskarium with distinction, which got her enrolled in some of the best psychic training programs the military could offer. She was an almost immediate failure.

While her older and younger siblings showed great prowess and precision with their magic, becoming mystics and technomancers, hers seemed almost "broken," with spells that produced wildly different effects than she intended to cast, sudden shifts and disruptions in the reality around her as she'd cast, and just generalized magical mayhem that resulted in her failing in her training and becoming regarded by her family and peers as an embarrassment.

She quickly developed a habit of acting the fool and deflecting situations with humor to try and get people to like her despite her difficulties with magic, but is haunted by something she was asked once: "Do you play the clown because you want to make people laugh, or because you want people to think that you are funny?" Frustrated and bitter, she dropped out of the Academy and declared she was leaving for the Pact Worlds, hoping one of the magical schools there could assist in "fixing" her broken magic, or at least not be surrounded by reminders of not being able to live up to the expectations that were set up for her before her egg was even laid...


"Witchwapers"... I admit I thought of Cardi B.

I played a Witchwarper in the initial playtest, and did well with it as a sort of battlefield controller, but the class doesn't do a lot for me in the official rules.

In the playtest, I played an elf witchwarper in one of the APs set on Castrovel, which was fun (especially with a Lashunta in the party). Being able to Life Bubble and Fog Cloud turned out to be clutch against that particular AP's dangers.

Second Seekers (Jadnura)

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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

I've got a lvl 8 Witchwarper in Org Play, who went all in on Cha, because why wouldn't you, and also to pump up my Bluff modifier. Then, with Improved Feint and Spell Feint to give enemies a penalty to saves, and you're a debuffing machine. Other casters are getting their bread-and-butter spells like Space Fireball or Space Lighting Bolt, and I'm throwing out Fear III and Id Insinuation. For extra softening up, or for salt-in-the-wounds, I took Frightening Display .

I'm having fun being a debuffer/controller.
...until we fight something immune to mind-effecting stuff, anyways :D


Is there a specific reason you went with spell feint over demoralize?
as near as I can tell, neither are language dependent. though maybe demoralize is mind effecting and feint isn't I assume.?
I'd have to go recheck those rules. I've not used either. But I'm considiering some of them now.


Feint leaves them flat footed against you untill end of next turn. Targeting sense motive or CR.
Demoralize leaves them shaken for 1, maybe more rounds. Targeting Intimidate or CR.
Flat footed makes them easier to hit for you, or with the feat easier to spell. Shaken makes them hit you less.
I would guess that being the main reason, allowing them to get their hit or spell working more often, which may be a better penalty then a -2 to hit.
Also, I think Intimidate is a more used skill on your combat looking enemies, so feint would likely have a lower CR.

Second Seekers (Jadnura)

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Zwordsman wrote:
Is there a specific reason you went with spell feint over demoralize?

Chiefly, it's because I own the COM (that Spell Feint is from) but not the AP chapter that Improved Demoralize is from, and it's an Org Play character :D

Other than that, as you say, I think Feint affects a larger pool than Demoralize. I don't think Demoralize is specifically called out as a mind-affecting, fear, effect in the Intimidate rules, but that's the way most GMs rule it, I've found. Feint (arguably) works against, say, intelligent undead, whereas Demoralize wouldn't.

I also like the flexibility the Feint allows: Spell Feint lets you choose between making it flat-footed or taking the -1 to Saves. Further, in another level I can pick up Greater Feint which, I think, imposes the Flat-Footed condition to everyone, even if I specifically choose the -1 Saves rider, instead. Like Wesrolter pointed out, sometimes it's better to have one, or the other.

And, lastly - taking Frightful Display gives me a way to potentially Demoralize as a Reaction anyways, should I need to :D In a perfect world, combat round 1 is like a lvl 0 or 1 spell that the target fails against, proccing Frightening Display, letting me Demoralize; and then round two is Spell Feint, and then a big nasty spell at a stacking -3 to saves :D


Huh... I am starting to consider a support Witchwarper... Sounds interesting and a little fun. SO far I have played a Mystic (Team cleric), Vanguard and a Weapons Mechanic (Her personality makes her fun. Wall climbing Halfling with the biggest gun in the collection.)

Never really considered the Warper as the Vanguard was in the same book and I wanted something more combat based at the time...


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Nobody is immune to shaken (unless there's a unique ability somewhere), and shaken does not have the mind-affecting or fear descriptors - if the GM says otherwise, he's house-ruling, and that's not allowed in org play.

Distributing the shaken condition in the battlefield is the primary action of my level 2 witchwarper, before he moves up to spells or augments to debuff enemies.

Spell feint is on the horizon as well.


All sounds fun. I kind of want all of those now.

A note. Doesn't shaken also lower saves by 2? Its attack checks skills and saves right? I'm at work so I can't check easily but I thought it did all of them except AC.

Spell feint feint. And the DC one sounds pretty fun. Though so many feats I want on mine. Water magic and technomancer feat are fun. As it boosts Hazard DC and adds ice water damage and I get energy ray for fun fluff.
But feints intimidate sound quite effective overall

Second Seekers (Jadnura)

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
The Ragi wrote:
Nobody is immune to shaken (unless there's a unique ability somewhere), and shaken does not have the mind-affecting or fear descriptors - if the GM says otherwise, he's house-ruling, and that's not allowed in org play.

Yeah, I've seen the threads :D I agree, the shaken, frightened, and panicked conditions are, RAW, not Fear or Mind-Affecting. Lots of GMs, especially those who are still in PF mindsets, have a hard time with this at the table, though. At the end of the day, Feinting causes fewer rules debates in Org Play, lol.

Wesrolter wrote:
Huh... I am starting to consider a support Witchwarper

Not gonna lie, it takes a bit for my build to come online: Improved Feint and Spell Feint are the foundation or the build. And, I can count the number of times I've used Infinite Worlds on one hand (and the number of times it's materially impacted a battle on one finger.) But as a support character, I've had fun anyways!

And - we haven't even talked about Paradigm Shifts, yet! As a Support character, I am basically always using my Reaction, every round, to do something. I run out of Reactions and RP before I run out of situations to spend RP and Reactions on :D It helps me to stay engaged with combat, since even when it's not my turn having a ton of Reaction options rewards me for paying attention to what other actions are being taken.


Yep:

Shaken
Source Starfinder Core Rulebook pg. 277
You take a –2 penalty to attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks while you have the shaken condition.

And if you grab a Grim Trophies armor upgrade: While wearing armor with grim trophies, if you successfully cause a foe to be shaken, the foe applies the –2 penalty from that condition to weapon damage rolls in addition to the other rolls it normally applies to.

Spell Feint
Source Character Operations Manual pg. 118
When you succeed at a feint combat maneuver, instead of the normal effects, your opponent takes a –1 penalty to saving throws against the next spell you cast before the end of your next turn.

One round lowering the target's saving throw, next round you cast your spell. I recommend Grease - when it lands, it's a day wrecker.


I'm liking shaken. I'll probably build mine towards that a bit. Feint takes more feats than I want to give a team benefit. I'll have to look into the trophies haha. There is also the threat cybernetic that adds circle bonus.

intimidate and maybe baleful polymorph. Or grease as you say
Though grease I feel is less good if you have melee allies. Unless you target the enemy weapon maybe?


Zwordsman wrote:
Unless you target the enemy weapon maybe?

Only weapons - prone enemies will make the ranged people on your party toss you out the air lock.

----

Also daze, fatigue, fear - actually not a lot of debuffing options (baleful polymorph isn't org legal, unfortunately).

Lesser confusion... other than that, there's only utility or damage spells for 1st level.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

My Witchwarper in OrgPlay is a 'shorter' Human

Spoiler:
Spacefarer Halfling
who grew up as part of a family under long-term contract to AbadarCorp.

Due to story developments, one of her family members developed an ailment that required expensive biotech to compensate for, so she broke free of the family contract and took a custodial contract with folks who turned out to be from the First World for a period of time.

This changed her mentality a little, her perspective, and gave her the capability to warp reality.

When she ended her term of service with the fey of the First World and returned home, she found out that they'd been helped out of their contractual debt-load by the Starfinder Society.

J. Donohue, aka 'Wageslave' doesn't smile very often. In fact, the wider her smile, the more PISSED OFF she is.

She can fit into very tight spaces due to that otherworldly 'internship'

Spoiler:
Scurry Feat
and her spells have a very 'First World' feeling to them.

For example, when she Punctures the Veil, she intones an offer to 'someone unseen' and hordes of tiny sprites come streaming out of Someplace Else and start shanking the target of the spell.

When she really starts smiling, that is the manifestation of her casting Fear as her smile seems to become Impossibly Large and Toothy.

Her broom

Spoiler:
Shadowstaff, Lesser
can be configured to blast dust that it's picked up
Spoiler:
Ranged Option
or to bash people in the face with the bristles of it
Spoiler:
Melee Option, with variable slashing/bashing/piercing

Despite the apparent doom and gloom that one might expect from such a character, she's generally a cheerful (if unsmiling) custodian that just *loves* to clean things up

Spoiler:
Usually Profession: Custodian, with Token Spell for the really hard jobs
.

One of her more difficult encounters was being in a dirty seedy bar and fidgeting and twitching to NOT start cleaning the place while the team was undercover.

:>


I love shadow staff. I do wish I could somehow swing stats for str and dex to melee and ranged with it. As far as I can t ell no way to ddex poke with it though.

It is such an on point witchwarper weapon though.

Grand Archive

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I have a contemplative witchwarper. With the concept "I can achieve any reality I can imagine. And with a brain this big, you would be surprised what I can imagine."

Beyond that there isn't anything hugely special about the build (they are only level 1.) Basically a party face, benefiting from charming veneer, with shifting surge for support and ectoplasmic blast for attack.


Jared Thaler - Personal Opinion wrote:

I have a contemplative witchwarper. With the concept "I can achieve any reality I can imagine. And with a brain this big, you would be surprised what I can imagine."

Beyond that there isn't anything hugely special about the build (they are only level 1.) Basically a party face, benefiting from charming veneer, with shifting surge for support and ectoplasmic blast for attack.

I too made a contemplative witchwarper. I liked the idea of the floating brain altering reality. I went with the alternative which changes out armor or weapons. He would always be saying things like: I have just the thing for that! Or, the odds of that happening and me having just the right equipment was 1 in 964290, but by Desnas blessings, I got it this time too!


I love witchwarper. though I dislike charsima. I've had a ton of fun with their weird skillset and utility spells when I was allowed to use one with a different stat.

and since this got revived from last summer to add.

There are sevreal new nice features in the Tech Guide for witchwarpers!

I'm really looking forward to this supposide thing in a future book that will up cantrips usability. Fact is Witchwarper who gets Energy Ray somehow, along with Hazard has such amazing tools available. If they only did more damgae!

Hopefully in that future book they also get their paradigm shift to add Lv or 1/2lv to the damage of spells. Like the other casters get.


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Kishmo wrote:
The Ragi wrote:
Nobody is immune to shaken (unless there's a unique ability somewhere), and shaken does not have the mind-affecting or fear descriptors - if the GM says otherwise, he's house-ruling, and that's not allowed in org play.

Yeah, I've seen the threads :D I agree, the shaken, frightened, and panicked conditions are, RAW, not Fear or Mind-Affecting. Lots of GMs, especially those who are still in PF mindsets, have a hard time with this at the table, though. At the end of the day, Feinting causes fewer rules debates in Org Play, lol.

Wesrolter wrote:
Huh... I am starting to consider a support Witchwarper

Not gonna lie, it takes a bit for my build to come online: Improved Feint and Spell Feint are the foundation or the build. And, I can count the number of times I've used Infinite Worlds on one hand (and the number of times it's materially impacted a battle on one finger.) But as a support character, I've had fun anyways!

And - we haven't even talked about Paradigm Shifts, yet! As a Support character, I am basically always using my Reaction, every round, to do something. I run out of Reactions and RP before I run out of situations to spend RP and Reactions on :D It helps me to stay engaged with combat, since even when it's not my turn having a ton of Reaction options rewards me for paying attention to what other actions are being taken.

I really appreciated your insight here. I like to take classes and try and find a way to make them shine. I was trying to figure out how to make a WitchWarper and I kept looking at Infinate Worlds and I couldn't figure out if it was even close to good. It looked like I was going to go through some pain for a build to come online and so getting a concept of a good build but also the pain was nice.


Some of the RP uses are nice. WHich is a nice change from my biohacker where I felt like nothing really helped much.

Debuff support witchwarper looks fun on a bun.


The one buff I've applied to Witchwarpers so far is that I give them one "free" usage of their Infinite Worlds ability per scene/short rest, at their highest current spell level. It reduces the competition between "use my cool signature class ability" vs "cast utilitarian spells".

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