More useful outside of combat

[Skabb]

A lot of people have complained about this, but I really do think with a few tweaks, you could make use of the great flavor of this class in situations outside of combat.

first, I think having the evolutionist lose all EP outside of combat would be a mistake. Flavor-fully, I don't think it makes sense unless you box everyone in to this stuff being highly driven by adrenaline, which is kinda lame. It also provides a play pattern that is more unique than other classes, and with drawbacks balancing things out, it's not like you just build up to some OP state for future fights. And of course, this opens up the door for more utility outside of combat.

Worth noting, you would have to make sure the player can't abuse things like evolution drain outside of combat to fine tune their EP without cost.

my proposition: instead of adding " An evolutionist loses all EP at the end of combat.", add " An evolutionist loses all EP when they restore resolve points while resting" and "An evolutionist cannot gain EP when outside of combat except by spending resolve".

Next thing is to buff the abilities that can be useful outside of combat. For example, with these changes, ocular advantage becomes an interesting out of combat option, except it only lasts a minute. Buff it to last 10 minutes or even an hour, and suddenly you've added some cool utility to the otherwise combat focused class. Similarly for gaining specific movements, I would extend that to a minute, perhaps only outside of combat if that is too powerful in combat.

Next is to add more abilities like those mentioned above that focus more on utility, like perhaps some pheromone enhancers for charisma actions; and have each niche gain 1 bonus that is mostly only good for out of combat situations (maybe they gain it at level 3 or 5).

Seriously though, I would love to be able to use fission form to solve problems outside of combat.

[Sebastian Hirsch]

Some good points, but I would argue for a separate pool daily for out-of-combat abilities, or maybe some sort of pool that refills after a 10-minute rest.

[QuidEst]

I would much rather have the issue addressed than patched. Using a resource generated in combat for out of combat stuff isn't very fun or on-point in terms of flavor. I don't want to need to go pick a bar fight to be able to be able to disguise myself for a party, or sacrifice a monster to be able to evolve environmental protections for the day.

[Terminalmancer]

If we didn't need to punch someone to get EP, that might be more appealing. Starting with 2 and retaining the ability to convert RP to EP might be one way to address it. That would be a very different approach than what the class currently boasts.

That said, any sort of out-of-combat utility would be a very different philosophy than what we're seeing so far. So that's not necessarily an obstacle.

[Garretmander]

I think I'd rather get rid of EP entirely and make the adaptations have multiple choices that reset on a 10 min rest instead of relying on a fluctuating nightmare of a combat resource. Maybe work some of the managing EP benefits into level progression and just giving the class full BAB while we're at it.

[Terminalmancer]

It's interesting how different folks have such different preferences. I like having one resource pool and multiple options. Giving each option its own resource pool, even if it's a 1/day style thing, sounds awful to me!

100% agree on full BAB. Giving up your EP progression just to have full BAB doesn't seem like a win. An evolutionist without their EP progression compares very poorly to a soldier. VERY poorly. At later levels it improves because you start with 2 EP/round, but it's still not good.

[Wesrolter]

Plus some of the class choices are worse then the versions other classes have. Ocular advantage.
As a move action, you can spend 1 EP to gain one of the following
special abilities for 1 minute: darkvision (60 feet), low-light vision, or
unflankable. If you already have darkvision, you can instead increase
the range of your darkvision by 30 feet.
Being one of the flavour every even level abilities it is week as hell other then Unflankable.
Operatives can use one of their even level abilities to get both Darkvision and low light, permanently. Mechanics need 2, but also has a perception bonus.

[Dracomicron]

Wesrolter wrote:

Plus some of the class choices are worse then the versions other classes have. Ocular advantage.

As a move action, you can spend 1 EP to gain one of the following
special abilities for 1 minute: darkvision (60 feet), low-light vision, or
unflankable. If you already have darkvision, you can instead increase
the range of your darkvision by 30 feet.
Being one of the flavour every even level abilities it is week as hell other then Unflankable.
Operatives can use one of their even level abilities to get both Darkvision and low light, permanently. Mechanics need 2, but also has a perception bonus.

Yeah, my benchmark is Operative. Nobody can argue that an Operative is short-changed in pretty much any department, so if an ability is good enough to be a permanent Operative ability, it should be good enough for an Evolutionist to have all the time.

[Jared Thaler - Personal Opinion]

Dracomicron wrote:

Wesrolter wrote:

Plus some of the class choices are worse then the versions other classes have. Ocular advantage.

As a move action, you can spend 1 EP to gain one of the following
special abilities for 1 minute: darkvision (60 feet), low-light vision, or
unflankable. If you already have darkvision, you can instead increase
the range of your darkvision by 30 feet.
Being one of the flavour every even level abilities it is week as hell other then Unflankable.
Operatives can use one of their even level abilities to get both Darkvision and low light, permanently. Mechanics need 2, but also has a perception bonus.

Yeah, my benchmark is Operative. Nobody can argue that an Operative is short-changed in pretty much any department, so if an ability is good enough to be a permanent Operative ability, it should be good enough for an Evolutionist to have all the time.

Operatives are the most broken class. If new classes are competing with operative we are going to have some ridiculous power creep.

[Jared Thaler - Personal Opinion]

I would really like to see evolutionists gain the ability to reconfigure their augmentations.

[Garretmander]

Jared Thaler - Personal Opinion wrote:

Operatives are the most broken class. If new classes are competing with operative we are going to have some ridiculous power creep.

I don't believe Draco was suggesting they should compete with Operatives.

They were suggesting a new class' tricks should compete with operative tricks, which are already gravy on the best jack of all trades class in the game.

If your class' special sauce can't even compete with the best class' side gig, is it even worth printing that class?

[Dracomicron]

Garretmander wrote:

Jared Thaler - Personal Opinion wrote:

Operatives are the most broken class. If new classes are competing with operative we are going to have some ridiculous power creep.

I don't believe Draco was suggesting they should compete with Operatives.

They were suggesting a new class' tricks should compete with operative tricks, which are already gravy on the best jack of all trades class in the game.

If your class' special sauce can't even compete with the best class' side gig, is it even worth printing that class?

Exactly.

I don't think that every class needs to be as broken as the Operative. I do think that something about the class needs to give me a reason NOT to play an Operative instead. Right now it's offering moderate damage, terrible flexibility (ironically for a class that has "adaptations" as a feature), and a math headache.