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I apologize if this has been asked and answered before but I couldn’t find it in my searching. For initiative being rolled will any skill work if appropriate? Or is it only really stealth and or perception?
As per the core rule book “ Typically your rule perception check to determine your initiative the more aware you are of your surroundings the more quickly you can respond. Sometimes, though, the GM might call on YouTube or some other type of check. For instants if you were avoiding notice during exploration usual stealth check. A social encounter could call for a deception or diplomacy check.” (Page 468)
Are the examples listed the only exceptions or are they just examples of using different skills for initiative.
Those are just examples. As a GM you can always allow other skills as an option, if they're appropriate to how the encounter is starting.
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Most of the time it will be Perception, and some of the time it will be Stealth, but provided that the GM and players agree on a good, probably situational reason to roll something else, virtually any skill is viable, though some might require more justification than others. It should normally depend on what you're doing to get into combat, or were doing the moment before initiative was called.
Off the top of my head, you're trying to pull one over your opponent: Deception
Hunting / tracking your opponent and or trying to get terrain advantage: Survival
Initiative is called because you were caught with hand in the cookie jar: Thievery
To me the question is, could that skill theoretically give you an edge in the combat based on how you started the fight, which is why most of the time it's Perception. Easiest way to gain advantage is situational awareness, but sometime lying in ambush gives an alternative and occasionally you might have other options
sorry couldn't help myself.
I've allowed players to roll Athletics for Initiative if they are actively climbing or swimming. I would be ok with Acrobatics if you are balancing.
I could even see using Occultism or some other knowledge skill in the right circumstances, say recognizing something as a danger that isn't obvious to the untrained.
Yeah, it is actually an amusing exercise to go through the list of skills and come up with a scenario where it would be appropriate to use them for initiative.
Some more obscure ones that I have come up with:
Intimidation: If you are in a social situation and trying to coerce someone to do something and they instead decide to fight you.
Medicine: If you are in the middle of a 10-minute break and using Treat Wounds when an enemy comes upon you.
Crafting: Similar to the medicine initiative - used when you are interrupted while repairing your shield.
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Generally, the way I phrase Initiative to my players is, "Use Perception for Initiative unless you can convince me something else is appropriate for the situation." Any skill is potentially on the table, but it has to have a reason for helping you react to the transition into combat before the other guy.
Common non-perception initiatives that have come up have been:
-Stealth: When entering combat while sneaking.
-Diplomacy/Deception: When social situations break down into combat.
-Intimidation: When initiating an encounter by literally kicking in the door.
I could even see using Occultism or some other knowledge skill in the right circumstances, say recognizing something as a danger that isn't obvious to the untrained.
Have to say that I have allowed Arcana/Occultism to be used for Initiative once. Party triggered a summoning rune, so I gave them the option of using the magic knowledge skills to recognize/react to the situation to determine initiative.
Medicine: If you are in the middle of a 10-minute break and using Treat Wounds when an enemy comes upon you.
Crafting: Similar to the medicine initiative - used when you are interrupted while repairing your shield.
I'd personally probably rule against these 2 situations, since just because you're actively using the skill on some (unrelated) task doesn't mean that it'd help you react to combat breaking out. If anything, you're actively distracted by focusing on your skill task instead of having the situational awareness to realize that combat just started.
Instead, I'd probably allow Crafting on initiative if it was something like an encounter against a (previously inanimate) construct - since Crafting knowledge could help you realize that the supposedly inanimate object is actually dangerous, and be quicker to react to it suddenly moving.
Medicine is a bit harder to justify - but I could see a situation like trying to perform forensics to determine how something died, and then allowing Medicine initiative as part of the realization that said creatures aren't actually dead yet (& are likely hostile).
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I let my players used arcana checks to realize based on the available evidence that they were about to be ambushed by an ether spider, which wound up making a lot more sense than perception on a creature that didn't phase back into existence until it's first turn.
One fun thing to keep in mind is skill checks can make it easier to apply circumstance bonuses like cover or follow the expert.
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I let my players used arcana checks to realize based on the available evidence that they were about to be ambushed by an ether spider, which wound up making a lot more sense than perception on a creature that didn't phase back into existence until it's first turn.
And that looks *so cool* in my head.
I love this editions initiative system.
I let my players used arcana checks to realize based on the available evidence that they were about to be ambushed by an ether spider, which wound up making a lot more sense than perception on a creature that didn't phase back into existence until it's first turn.And that looks *so cool* in my head.
I love this editions initiative system.
I think it is also a credit to the DC system. Applying hard/very hard difficulty adjustments for things like identifying a creature by its tracks or roar alone, vs be able to recognize it when it is right on front of you, is really easy to do.
I'm playing a Swashbuckler (Braggart) in Extinction Curse. I've, at various points, used Perception/Stealth/Acrobatics/Intimidate for my initiative depending on what was happening in the narrative. It really encourages people to set up situations where their weird, special thing gets a highlight and provide tangible benefit.
As long as everyone leans into the zany, cinematic action framing of PF2, everything is golden.
Skills I've ended up with a reason to allow for initiative at least once include:
Acrobatics (Rope swinging in through the window by surprise)
Athletics (For the person actually kicking the door in, same roll for initiative and the force open attempt)
Arcana (Recognizing that the ritual they were trying to stabilize was about to deposit nasty things in the room)
Deception (Mid conversation suckerpunch)
Intimidation (Also pushing a social situation into a fight, with a different tact)
Stealth (The obvious)
Medicine (For someone who was actually in the middle of doing an autopsy when the corpse lurched to unlife)
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I used lore arcana for initiative in the last fight even though I'm untrained and have +0 int, as part of an encounter I was reading a book when the fight broke out and so I told the GM, I'm working on the book, not paying attention so I'll just roll lore. I got a 2 and it fit perfectly.
Medicine (For someone who was actually in the middle of doing an autopsy when the corpse lurched to unlife)
Yeah, I like that one even better. Charon Onozuka makes a good point a few posts above.