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Considering a certain Bull Man is involved, the fact that he already promised tons of cool lich stuff, this seems like a pretty safe bet. There is also the fact that the phylactery is already an item and that the lich creation rules show a certain modularity that translates quite well.
From how it could work, it would be a perfect fit for a class archetype. At first glance it seems like a wizard-exclusive thing, but here the lich creation rules make it quite clear that that is not the case. It only requires a caster that can cast at least 6th level spells. So it is very attractive in regards to page space efficiency, which seems to be a big thing with class archetypes.
An Urgathoa-created abomination is the first that come to mind for a cleric. A druid could twist the energies of a particularly destroyed piece of land for a "green" lich? An occult lich is just a regular lich but with more tentacles and reeking of fish :D
The thing all but writes itself. Start out as a more or less normal caster with a love for the school of necromancy and a taste for immortality. You advance your studies to the point that you build your phylactery and complete the ritual somewhere in the level 13 region.
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Well the ritual was called to be there if I remember right.
But I think that might be more a normal archetype if it's one as it does not really need to remove features of the class.
Yeah I would say archetype, not class archetype. And one that might give ancestry and skill feats in addition to class feats.
Well the ritual was called to be there if I remember right.
But I think that might be more a normal archetype if it's one as it does not really need to remove features of the class.
Mhh, fair point. Lich spellcasting is no different than regular spellcasting and that is about the only class feature spellcasters have in common.
And one that might give ancestry and skill feats in addition to class feats.
I can definitely see ancestry feat coming in an archetype, but I imagine it will be a bit difficult in this particular case.
All possible ancestry feats would have to logically come after your lich transformation, so level 12 at the bare minimum. Level 13 and 17 ancestry feats can be quite decent, but are overall not that strong, i.e. not level 12+ class/archetype feat strong.
They don't have to be level 12+ Archetype strong, just level 12+ Ancestry strong.
Only if they do not work like the archetype skill feats, i.e. you cannot take them as either an archetype feat or ancestry feat, but only as an ancestry feat. Otherwise they have to obey the same rules and balance, which is likely why we are not seeing any archetype skill feats over level 7. But I might be misinterpreting the intended design of those, so who knows.
However, if you look at what you could possibly get, even weaker versions of lich abilities are pretty strong for even a 17th level ancestry feat. So it seems rather unlikely to me that we will see any of those as ancestry feats.
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I am not interpreting those rules and design intent the same as you.
Occasionally, an archetype feat works like a skill feat instead of a class feat. These archetype feats have the skill trait, and you select them in place of a skill feat, otherwise following the same rules above. These are not archetype class feats (for instance, to determine the number of Hit Points you gain from the Fighter Resiliency archetype feat).
Further, even if you could pick them up as either class feats or skill feats, the balance restriction you're suggesting (that it must be equal to either of the same level) is impossible, as skill feats are the weakest of all feats. That's why so many class feats (and ancestry feats actually) give both a bonus skill feat and an additional ability on top of it.
Ignoring all that, Darkvision, the saving throw vs positive effects, negative healing, drain phylactery, and resistances all seem like fair game for ancestry feats. Actually you should probably get several of those with a single ancestry feat by level 13 or 17.
Edit: Upon reflection, I'm not being totally clear with this. Skill feats are weaker than class feats or ancestry feats because they don't give as much. The power they access seems to me about right for the level, it is just a class feat or ancestry feat of the same level would give everything the skill feat would give, plus a bonus on top of that.
Same applies, to a lesser extent, to ancestry feats. 5th-8th level innate spells, which is what 13th and 17th level ancestry feats offer, are pretty powerful. But a class feat would give that plus an additional spell, or a better DC scaling. So I can see some of the more minor lich abilities winding up as either a class feat or ancestry feat, but as a bigger bundle of effects if it was a class feat.
And if I'm wrong and you can select them as either classification of feat, I think they'd be okay with an ancestry feat being picked up as a class feat. After all, you're able to pick up a lower level feat in a higher slot, why not a lower power feat?
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I am not interpreting those rules and design intent the same as you.
Occasionally, an archetype feat works like a skill feat instead of a class feat. These archetype feats have the skill trait, and you select them in place of a skill feat, otherwise following the same rules above. These are not archetype class feats (for instance, to determine the number of Hit Points you gain from the Fighter Resiliency archetype feat).[...]
Oh yeah, you are totally right, you can't take archetype skill feats as archetype class feats, only as skill feats. That is what I get for not reading certain rules carefully, when I think I know what they do... welp.
Then it is totally possible. The minor abilities I didn't even think about much, but you got a point there. Darkvision, rejuvination (duh) and negative healing will be inherent. Counter spell and some crafting stuff would be easily available. The +1 vs saves againt positive is specific enough to be available by level 9 like existing feats. I agree that I would expect some of these to be bundled. We might even get them before the full transformation, just because the necromancer is already experimenting on himself before the actual ritual.
Resistances will be interesting, since we only have the scaling resistances exclusively from heritages and flat 5 from level 5 ancestry feats. None of those are physical resistance, though. The caveat of being overcome by magical bludgeoning might be enough to make it available, but I'm not quite sure. Maybe the transformation gives inherent resistance 5 and you can upgrade one to 10 as a 13th or 17 level feat with the ability to take it twice? But since we have not seen higher resistances except on heritages, I'm sceptical.
The only major abilities I see being available are Paralyzing Touch and Cold Beyond Cold (both with a nerfed critical failure effect), if only because Hand of the Lich is so iconic that it will definitely be included. I would be extremely surprised if they gave us the ability to cast any spell (including 10th level) as a free action, even if Drain Phylactery is only once per day. All the auras are obviously waaay to strong.
But you definitely have a good idea here.
