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A Numerian AP centered on the Dominion of the Black would be my wish. But really anything at all - I'm GMing Iron Gods in 2e now and I'm having a blast.
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I want three things.
1) Playable Lashunta, Kasatha, Vesk, and Kucharn, maybe also crash-landed onto Golarion with Divinity.
2) Lots of robot characters, not just robot monsters to whack with a stick. But also lots of those too. (Casandalee was my favorite part of Iron Gods – amazing job by Paizo creatives with her character, and would love to see more like her, Unity, and Hellion – the last of whom I'd be filled with childish glee to see having miraculously survived the events of that AP and return as a new big, bad villain).
3) Cyborg Kevoth-Kul: The Kevothinator.
Edit: Also a revisit to that cool android speakeasy from Inner Sea Taverns would be great. Loved the atmosphere of that place.
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3) Cyborg Kevoth-Kul: The Kevothinator.
GIVE ME YOUR CLOTHES, YOUR BOOTS, AND YOUR +3 GREATSWORD.
I would love if Lashunta were playable, especially if we can run into Lady Altouna. I'm not expecting any of the new-to-Starfinder ancestries to come over, though.
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With the talk of a 2e Technology Guide as a want in another thread, I couldn't help but remember this thread and how much I'd love this story. One angle I haven't seen touched on much is that Numeria deserves a chance to build something better - with the Technic League broken and some degree of kindness extended to androids, a young goddess watching over much of the land and welcomed by the lucid king, I think there's hope for Numeria to become more of a home to its people. If we could see the nation begin to come together, only to be threatened by a Dominion invasion or the like... that would rule.
Found family in the alien-blasted wasteland. Set the place up to be a more interesting place on the map for the future.
nah. make it bleak.
yeah, the king's lucid, but the tribes are being stirred up by the remnants of the league.
yeah, there's a goddess, but whatever. goddesses don't do anything in golarian. not like the righteous have gotten more successful after Iomedae ascended, or hangovers are forgotten after Cailean got the call up.
and now the dominion has been made even more alert to the great treasures of Androffa waiting to be looted...
and maybe, just maybe, the least [and most fun] of the Iron Gods can make a dramatic return?
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yeah, there's a goddess, but whatever. goddesses don't do anything in golarian. not like the righteous have gotten more successful after Iomedae ascended,
I think the current status of the Worldwound might disagree with you.
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yeah, there's a goddess, but whatever. goddesses don't do anything in golarian. not like the righteous have gotten more successful after Iomedae ascended,I think the current status of the Worldwound might disagree with you.
she's been a goddess for a long time. including during all those other failed crusades.
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She’s been a goddess for less than a century.
And the crusades didn’t “fail” save for the one before last, the whole point of the crusades was to keep the demons contained. Which they did.
i hate getting too deep in the weeds on this sort of canon, but i think you are wrong.
she passed the trial of the starstone way before Aroden died, which was about a century back on the timeline iirc.
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Iomedae became a deity in 3832, so 890 years ago.
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Iomedae became a deity in 3832, so 890 years ago.She passed the test of the Starstone and became Aroden’s Herald in 3832, she didn’t become a full on Goddess, her own thing, till 4606.
She did indeed become Aroden's Herald in 3832, but she also passed the test of the Starstone and became a deity that year. 4606 is when Aroden died and she inherited most of his followers.
3832 ar Iomedae successfully attempts the Test of the Starstone in Absalom and becomes a goddess and Aroden’s herald.
What would that conclusion be based on...?
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What would that conclusion be based on...?Dev commentary on how starstone actually works (e.g. how realm version was incorrect). Like it basically propels you to demigod with potential to become true god fast
Do you have a link to that or something? I've never heard that, and a quick ctrl+f of most of the sources listed on her wiki doesn't mention demigod or demi-god anywhere related to her.
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Do you have a link to that or something? I've never heard that, and a quick ctrl+f of most of the sources listed on her wiki doesn't mention demigod or demi-god anywhere related to her.What would that conclusion be based on...?Dev commentary on how starstone actually works (e.g. how realm version was incorrect). Like it basically propels you to demigod with potential to become true god fast
*shrugs* It was never about Iomedae in specific, it was about "what if PC succeeds at test, what likely happens", but I forget if it was james jacobs q&a thread or not
Bummer. And he's not on the boards to ask anymore either. Well at least I have a new research obsession.
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Well that wasn't as hard as I thought. Found it confirmed by both Eric and James.
I'm not sure I say so explicitly, but my conception has always been that it makes you a demigod.
My take is that it makes you into a demigod, but one with significant potential and a boost toward ascending further to full on deity.
This is very interesting to me, and I wish they would have explicitly put that in the text, especially after Planar Adventures formalized the differences between Deity, Demigod, and Quasi Deity.
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Also, is JJ not on the boards at all anymore? Did they say they were leaving or something?
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At the risk of continuing this aside, there seems to be a discrepancy in the casual use of deity in some of the writing and the very technical definition of demigod and god that Pathfinder uses to separate tiers of power.
Iomedae passed the Starstone test and became, likely, a demigoddess. Still a goddess, but not in the rules sense of beyond a statblock. Later she completed that transformation, with evidence suggesting it was upon the death of Aroden and her subsequent absorption of his church.
That's one way to resolve the word usage in print. Or pick some other method that appeals to you.
But, hey, about those Laser Paladins riding Steel Horses?
If we did revisit Numeria I'd be really hoping for some fighter craft if I'm honest. Paizo seems to be doing more with this vehicle system than in the previous game, and savage science space dogfight sounds dope.
Then again if it came to that or steel horsies I'm not sure which side I'd fall on.
laser motorcycles!
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The more I think about it, the more I dearly want this to be an alien invasion plot. We know the Dominion of the Black has those lovely, awful spaceships made of meat and metal - lets have one touch down!
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The more I think about it, the more I dearly want this to be an alien invasion plot. We know the Dominion of the Black has those lovely, awful spaceships made of meat and metal - lets have one touch down!
that's one of the juiciest hooks at the end of the original book. you could even have book 5 be something like the party has to build a rocket ship to launch themselves into orbit to battle the orbiting Dominion mothership!
Pathfinder becomes Macross.
I dig it.
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The Divinity never actually takes off in Iron Gods; it would be a lot of fun to have players go to space in any sequel! I think folks would love getting to raid a Dominion mothership that’s in orbit.
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Now I am daydreaming a 6-module adventure path named Numerian Steel.
Numeria, land of fallen alien spaceships, has had a renaissance. After the defeat of the monopolistic Technic League, inquisitive people studied the alien technology and invented their own gadgetry. The heroes are science workers, bridging the gap between theory and practice and trying to win hearts for their crazy new ideas. Yet will they be ready for what comes? The Androffan spaceships that crashed into Numeria had been fleeing an enemy that is as relentless as it is uncanny.
Advance of Steam (1st level)- The heroes must prove themselves to hostile barbarians and elusive aliens as they build a railroad to unity Numeria.
Wheeled Warriors (5th level)- The Railroad Company sends the party against a strange new barbarian tribe, one that rides motorcylces armed with lasers.
Sovereign of Steel (9th level)- Kevoth-Kul, the barbarian Black Sovereign who rules the Numerian tribes, views the Railroad Company as a potential new rival.
Technic Difficulties (12th level)- The party must root out an enclave of the Technic League.
Invasion of the Brain Collectors (15th level)- The heroes face a landing party from the interstellar Dominion of the Black.
Beyond the Sky (18th level)- The heroes go into orbit to stop the invasion fleet.
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Now I am daydreaming a 6-module adventure path named Numerian Steel.
Numeria, land of fallen alien spaceships, has had a renaissance. After the defeat of the monopolistic Technic League, inquisitive people studied the alien technology and invented their own gadgetry. The heroes are science workers, bridging the gap between theory and practice and trying to win hearts for their crazy new ideas. Yet will they be ready for what comes? The Androffan spaceships that crashed into Numeria had been fleeing an enemy that is as relentless as it is uncanny.[snip]
To be honest, I don't want to see steam tech in Numeria! The contrast between it and the sci-fi stuff is a little jarring for me, to say nothing of all the troubles that come with casting the Kellid "barbarians" as the Native Americans in a build-the-railway Wild West story. Book 1 of Iron Gods took you into a plasma-venting ruined spaceship; I want a similar degree of Numerian goodness immediately in your face.
Casandalee was a prominent figure across the original AP and her ascension to canonical godhood is one of the coolest setting developments - I'd want her (or her clergy, or her Android kin) featured pretty prominently in any sequel.
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^ . . . But you've got to admit, having to go up against barbarians riding motorcycles armed with lasers is just too over-the-top to pass up . . . .
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Now I am daydreaming a 6-module adventure path named Numerian Steel.
Numeria, land of fallen alien spaceships, has had a renaissance. After the defeat of the monopolistic Technic League, inquisitive people studied the alien technology and invented their own gadgetry. The heroes are science workers, bridging the gap between theory and practice and trying to win hearts for their crazy new ideas. Yet will they be ready for what comes? The Androffan spaceships that crashed into Numeria had been fleeing an enemy that is as relentless as it is uncanny.Advance of Steam (1st level)- The heroes must prove themselves to hostile barbarians and elusive aliens as they build a railroad to unity Numeria.
Wheeled Warriors (5th level)- The Railroad Company sends the party against a strange new barbarian tribe, one that rides motorcylces armed with lasers.
Sovereign of Steel (9th level)- Kevoth-Kul, the barbarian Black Sovereign who rules the Numerian tribes, views the Railroad Company as a potential new rival.
Technic Difficulties (12th level)- The party must root out an enclave of the Technic League.
Invasion of the Brain Collectors (15th level)- The heroes face a landing party from the interstellar Dominion of the Black.
Beyond the Sky (18th level)- The heroes go into orbit to stop the invasion fleet.
I also dislike the railroad... let's use it as a tool of the returned Technic League. A mild revision of your proposal:
Lanley's Proposal [1st Level] - The heroes learn of a proposed MONORAIL which will run through their tribe's territory, they investigate, learn of a dread plot, and must ally with a local town & other tribes to stop it
Wheeled Warriors [5th Level] - The Technic League strikes back at its new enemies with massive robot monsters; the PCs must head into the badlands on laser-motorcycles to destroy the robot base
Sovereign of Steel [9th Level] - Kevoth Kul, the barbarian Black Sovereign who claims to rule the Numerian tribes, summons his vassals, including the PCs to Starfall; there they learn of rumblings beneath the city, and investigate the ancient ruin of Divinity
Yuggoth Descends [12th Level] - The Dominion of the Black's advanced scouting fleet has been spotted... but across the border in the Sarkorian Scar! The PCs head into the demon-infested wastes where they confront the unexpected
Invasion of the Brain Collectors (15th level)- The heroes face a landing party from the interstellar Dominion of the Black, and their technic league allies, now bound with cyberdemons!
Beyond the Sky (18th level)- The heroes go into orbit to stop the invasion fleet.
To be honest, I don't want to see steam tech in Numeria! The contrast between it and the sci-fi stuff is a little jarring for me, to say nothing of all the troubles that come with casting the Kellid "barbarians" as the Native Americans in a build-the-railway Wild West story. Book 1 of Iron Gods took you into a plasma-venting ruined spaceship; I want a similar degree of Numerian goodness immediately in your face.
Casandalee was a prominent figure across the original AP and her ascension to canonical godhood is one of the coolest setting developments - I'd want her (or her clergy, or her Android kin) featured pretty prominently in any sequel.
My Iron Gods campaign gained a Wild West flavor in the 3rd and 4th modules. The PCs who lacked gunpowder firearms had acquired technological firearms. My NPC Val Baine had donned an armored coat styled as a longcoat over a scatterlight suit. Others in the party liked the longcoat style and wore longcoats over their own armor. They were strangers quietly walking into town with an eye out for trouble, like in Old West movies, rather than fantasy adventurers boasting of their exploits and ready to cause trouble.
The Iron Gods adventure path kept useful alien technology out of the PC's gear until 7th level, except for a few samples such as e-picks and unchargeable timeworm weapons with only two charges left, because the technology was as powerful as magic items. My players who wanted to play with the high tech were disappointed, but their characters became masters of mundane crafting in the meanwhile to keep with the gadgeteering theme they wanted (thus, Val Baine easily made her own armored coat). Fires of Creation had provided the alien high-tech elements as a setting and as hazards rather than as tools. The plasma torch of Torch had been an example of people using alien technology, but it had gone out.
Thus, I hoped that steam technology--or alternatively Guns & Gears equipment--in the 1st module of the followup campaign would give the players some technology to play with.
I now see how my one-sentence Advance of Steam plot casts the Numerian barbarians in the role of Native Americans with the party in the role of railroad thugs. The more detailed plot in gave in My June 3rd comment" had been about appeasing the powerful, anti-technology Ghost Wolf barbarians, but even with those details the Ghost Wolves could be compared to Native Americans. However, Iron Gods had little to say about the barbarian cultures of Numeria, until we reached the decadent court of Kevoth-Kul in the 5th module. I would like to see the barbarian culture on their home ground. I don't mind modeling the native barbarians of Numeria after the Native Americans of North American, but I would have to be careful to set up the circumstances so that a hack-and-slash party does not decide that massacring the natives is a solution.
I also dislike the railroad... let's use it as a tool of the returned Technic League. A mild revision of your proposal:
Lanley's Proposal [1st Level] - The heroes learn of a proposed MONORAIL which will run through their tribe's territory, they investigate, learn of a dread plot, and must ally with a local town & other tribes to stop it
Wheeled Warriors [5th Level] - The Technic League strikes back at its new enemies with massive robot monsters; the PCs must head into the badlands on laser-motorcycles to destroy the robot base
Sovereign of Steel [9th Level] - Kevoth Kul, the barbarian Black Sovereign who claims to rule the Numerian tribes, summons his vassals, including...
With two people viewing railroad-builders as automatically the bad guys, I guess I will have to drop the railroad idea. Alas, a monorail being built by Technic League remnants makes little sense. The remnants are in hiding and will want covert travel. But the Technic League could have some other scheme that involves stealing the land of the protagonist tribe.
A recent thread about Numeria's climate made me consider that the company that hired the party could instead be working on agriculture rather than transportation, trying to improve the soil and the farming techniques to feed the people of Numeria. Unfortunately, that would make the party seem like settlers encroaching on the native lands, so that is out, too.
I don't want a "technological advance is the enemy" theme in Iron Gods 2. I want to see the Numerian space fleet fight the Dominion of the Black in outer space and that will require a lot of technological advancement. And I like scientific advancement. The only way I see to prevent that would be to make a barbarian tribe the supporters of the advance.
The major tribes described in Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Numeria: Land of Fallen Stars do not appear interested in seeking new ways. The Black Horse tribe is Kevoth-Kul's tribe and wants conquest. The Tiger Lords are a large tribe mostly outside Numeria. The Ghost Wolves are violently against technology. The Sunder Horns are slavers. The Blood Gars are pirates. The White Scars are untrustworthy influence seekers. The Blades of Aaramor honorably hold an ancient guardianship.
In my September 13 comment I described that my party had dropped the kasathan Isuma from Valley of the Brain Collectors off with a lost tribe of kasathans south of Torch. That kasathan tribe was allied with a minor human barbarian tribe to remain hidden. With Isuma among them, I can see them changing. It would be nice to see Isuma again in Iron Gods 2. Furthermore, the kasathan tribe could include other alien species and give players an excuse to make characters with alien ancestry.
I would love to see Isuma again, and more aliens besides. Lady Altouna, the lashunta woman who rules Hajoth Hakados, is high on the list of characters I’d like to have a chance to run into.
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I would love to see Isuma again, and more aliens besides. Lady Altouna, the lashunta woman who rules Hajoth Hakados, is high on the list of characters I’d like to have a chance to run into.
it will not be complete unless there are lashunta with laser lances on triceratops running around
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I now see how my one-sentence Advance of Steam plot casts the Numerian barbarians in the role of Native Americans with the party in the role of railroad thugs. The more detailed plot in gave in My June 3rd comment" had been about appeasing the powerful, anti-technology Ghost Wolf barbarians, but even with those details the Ghost Wolves could be compared to Native Americans. However, Iron Gods had little to say about the barbarian cultures of Numeria, until we reached the decadent court of Kevoth-Kul in the 5th module. I would like to see the barbarian culture on their home ground. I don't mind modeling the native barbarians of Numeria after the Native Americans of North American, but I would have to be careful to set up the circumstances so that a hack-and-slash party does not decide that massacring the natives is a solution.
if, like the current mammoth hunter AP, the Iron Gods 2 AP puts you in the place of the techno-barbarian, that would be a fun change from the 1st Iron Gods, AND let you rip your own arms off and replace them with robot arms. That have chainsaws for hands. LASER CHAINSAW HANDS.
A recent thread about Numeria's climate made me consider that the company that hired the party could instead be working on agriculture rather than transportation, trying to improve the soil and the farming techniques to feed the people of Numeria. Unfortunately, that would make the party seem like settlers encroaching on the native lands, so that is out, too.
plenty of settlements and settled people in Numeria. No reason why they shouldn't want to improve their crop yields. I think that's definitely something the PCs can help with.
I don't want a "technological advance is the enemy" theme in Iron Gods 2. I want to see the Numerian space fleet fight the Dominion of the Black in outer space and that will require a lot of technological advancement. And I like scientific advancement. The only way I see to prevent that would be to make a barbarian tribe the supporters of the advance.
The major tribes described in Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Numeria: Land of Fallen Stars do not appear interested in seeking new ways. The Black Horse tribe is Kevoth-Kul's tribe and wants conquest. The Tiger Lords are a large tribe mostly outside Numeria. The Ghost Wolves are violently against technology. The Sunder Horns are slavers. The Blood Gars are pirates. The White Scars are untrustworthy influence seekers. The Blades of Aaramor honorably hold an ancient guardianship.
these were all really well described in the book. If there's an Iron Gods 2, the PCs should take on the role of diplomats and help negotiate w/ these tribes. As for the pro-tech tribe, there might well be one forming around Starfall around Kevoth-Kul - a Starfall-centered volume might have further details and reveal the technic league's plot to take over that nascent tribe.
In my September 13 comment I described that my party had dropped the kasathan Isuma from Valley of the Brain Collectors off with a lost tribe of kasathans south of Torch. That kasathan tribe was allied with a minor human barbarian tribe to remain hidden. With Isuma among them, I can see them changing. It would be nice to see Isuma again in Iron Gods 2. Furthermore, the kasathan tribe could include other alien species and give players an excuse to make characters with alien ancestry.
that would be cool. esp. how APs are written now.
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I'd rather have the above visual with Numerian Hellknights. The Order of the Dredd.Personally I'd call them something like the Order of the Lens, and have them be charged with making sure extra-Golarion beings from the Dark Tapestry don't go mucking about while using advanced tech. Something like an intersect of Hellknights and the Men in Black, but with more plate armor and without even the dubious authority the MIB enjoyed that they were working alongside established governmental structures.
I would buy whatever book detailed this today. I don’t know that they need to be Hellknights, but I’m SO down to play Golarion’s MIBs.
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In my proposed Numerian Steel adventure path toss out Advance of Steam and replace it with Many Hands.
Many Hands (1st level) For centuries the tiny tribe of four-armed kasathans remained hidden in a barren area along the Sellen River in Numeria. Recently the ancient kasathan Isuma and the android servants of the new goddess Casandalee brought prosperity, and that attracted attention. The adjacent barbarian tribes of Black Horse, Blood Gar, and Tiger Lords covet the newly fertile land and have begun fighting for the territory. The heroes must journey through the deadly creatures of Numeria and make alliances with their neighbors to prevent a civil war that will destroy them.
I think that the riders of the laser motorcycles could be of the Black Horse tribe. Some technologists trying to curry favor with Kevoth-Kul might give gifts to the Black Horse tribe, and daring youths could like motorcycles. The kasathans have other neighbors besides the human barbarians. The Numerian Plains look like good territory for orc cattle herders. And the towns or Torch and Hajoth Hakados are within traveling distance.
One difficulty for my Many Hands module is that it can't be linear. The party could head in any direction at first, so I cannot say that the kasathan village is the section for a 1st-level party, Torch and Hajoth Hakados for 2nd level, Black Horse and Blood Gars are for 3rd level, and the Tiger Lords are 4th level. I would have to build the encounters in modular fashion to enable level adjustment.
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Since I moved the laser motercycles to the 1st module, I need another story for the 2nd module. Let me steal the plot from Damnation Alley, the 1969 novel by Roger Zelazny rather than the 1977 movie loosely based on the novel.
Mutation Alley (5th level) Kuratown in the Felldales has fallen to a mutated plague. Most of Numeria bids that town of orc raiders a happy farewell, but Lady Altouna of Hajoth Hakados is sympathetic. She had developed a vaccine and calls upon the heroes to deliver it 200 miles away across civilized lands that oppose their mission and poisoned lands filled with vicious mutations.
The third module, Sovereign of Steel, needs only a minor adjustment. Yakman had suggested that the party could be summoned to Starfall and investigate the ancient ruin of the Diviniy, but the Iron Gods module The Divinity Drive already investigated the Divinity.
Sovereign of Steel (9th level) Kevoth-Kul, the barbarian Black Sovereign who rules the Numerian tribes, views the Many Hands coalltion as a potential new rival. The heroes are sent to Starfall to present their case, but the White Scar tribe wants them dead before they see the sovereign. And the slums of Starfall stage an ill-timed revolt against the wealthy lords of the city.
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Before the above few posts, I hadn't ever thought of the Kellids as being like Native Americans -- instead, they look related to Amiri (approximately northern European, but with more of a tan -- maybe Golarion's north circumpolar region has an ozone hole?); and their clothing and armor look more northern European when it resembles any Earth style. People of any ethnic group could become violently anti-technology (while potentially using it themselves). So -- at least as long as the artwork stays on message -- I don't think that the above proposed Iron Gods 2 would give the perception of disrespecting Native Americans.
With respect to monorails, these aren't exactly super-modern as railroad technology goes (the perception of them being as such being partly due to the difficulty in building early examples and partly due to modern marketing), with at least one working steam-powered demonstration example dating back to the 1880s and at least one horse-drawn prototype dating back to the 1820s.