Venture-Agent, Online—VTT
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Hey folks,
Just wanted to clear something up regarding the clarification from this post.
4. The errata states that “the GM might allow you” to upgrade an item from a lower-level version to a higher-level version (for instance, upgrading a type I bag of holding to type II). This is allowed for Pathfinder Society.
I was recently in a game where a GM said that you were allowed to upgrade items for merely the cost of the difference in gold pieces, citing this post as their example.
But this post is specifically in the context of the Craft activity, allowing crafters to upgrade items.
Is there any further clarification to this ruling that would allow you upgrade items without using the Craft activity and the requisite Downtime?
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The GM was correct. You can upgrade magic items by paying the difference. You don't have to craft them.Is there anywhere that says that specifically? The post I referenced was in regard to the Craft downtime activity so I was hoping for something more specific.
It is somewhere on the forum, and should also be in the next iteration of the guide.
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To provide some context, there was a very agonizing debate pre-Errata with people claiming you could not upgrade runes by simply paying the difference (the threads still exist if you search for them over in the Rules Forum, and there might be one or two in this Forum as well).
As a result, you actually had a whole subset of players selling their +1 Runes for half price just so they could then buy +1 Striking Runes.
I believe I called it "lunacy".
After it was finally clarified that you could just pay the difference, this errata was released with that same pay-the-difference idea in mind, but for all items.
You can ALSO upgrade items via Crafting, if you want to, but you are not required to do so.
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To provide some context, there was a very agonizing debate pre-Errata with people claiming you could not upgrade runes by simply paying the difference (the threads still exist if you search for them over in the Rules Forum, and there might be one or two in this Forum as well).
Which is weird since it explicitly says you can do this in the CRB.
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Which is weird since it explicitly says you can do this in the CRB.To provide some context, there was a very agonizing debate pre-Errata with people claiming you could not upgrade runes by simply paying the difference (the threads still exist if you search for them over in the Rules Forum, and there might be one or two in this Forum as well).
And that was just one of at least three different threads on the matter.
Because of the plethora of arguments at the time Michael Sayre even admitted it was a "little grey".
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Venture-Agent, Online—VTT
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It is somewhere on the forum, and should also be in the next iteration of the guide.The GM was correct. You can upgrade magic items by paying the difference. You don't have to craft them.Is there anywhere that says that specifically? The post I referenced was in regard to the Craft downtime activity so I was hoping for something more specific.
Now that the new iteration of the guide is out, I went looking for the passage you mentioned. I couldn't seem to find it, but I did find this:
Any equipment listed on your character’s Chronicles with an item level equal to or less than your character’s level + 2. Some items found on Chronicles are available for purchase only a limited number of times. Weapons and Armor found on Chronicles can be upgraded following the normal rules for upgrading.
Emphasis mine. The passage seems to indicate that only weapons and armour specifically found on Chronicles follow the normal rules for upgrading. I'm assuming this is in regards to etching runes? There are no "normal" rules for upgrading that I can find.
Since upgrading is only mentioned in two contexts in the CRB (being the section on upgrading Runes specifically, and then the errata'd section that allows you to use the Craft activity to upgrade an item to a more powerful version), is there any further passage or clarification I'm missing?
As it stands with the rules I have been able to find:
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Now that the new iteration of the guide is out, I went looking for the passage you mentioned. I couldn't seem to find it, but I did find this:It is somewhere on the forum, and should also be in the next iteration of the guide.The GM was correct. You can upgrade magic items by paying the difference. You don't have to craft them.Is there anywhere that says that specifically? The post I referenced was in regard to the Craft downtime activity so I was hoping for something more specific.
Under Character Creation:
Can I pay the cost difference to upgrade a magic item instead of using Craft to do it myself?
Yes. The Pathfinder Society has numerous crafters that assist their fellow agents. Use the rules for upgrading magic items on page 535 of the Core Rulebook.
Any equipment listed on your character’s Chronicles with an item level equal to or less than your character’s level + 2. Some items found on Chronicles are available for purchase only a limited number of times. Weapons and Armor found on Chronicles can be upgraded following the normal rules for upgrading.Emphasis mine. The passage seems to indicate that only weapons and armour specifically found on Chronicles follow the normal rules for upgrading. I'm assuming this is in regards to etching runes? There are no "normal" rules for upgrading that I can find.
That language is a hold over from when only weapon and armor could be upgraded, and was a clarification that items found on chronicles *can* be upgraded as normal. (Some people were interpreting items on chronicles as unique items that could not be upgraded.)
As it stands with the rules I have been able to find:
-Only weapons an armour found on Chornicles can be upgraded by paying the difference in gold. I'm loosely interpreting this to allow runes from said weapons to be used to qualify as chronicle access for etching those runes onto your existing weapons and armour as well, since that is explicitly allowed by the CRB.
Technically, if an item appears with a rune on it, you would have to buy the item and transfer the rune. This seems suboptimal, and possibly unintentional. I can look into getting that changed. Other than that, all items that have a superior version, whether they were bought from a chronicle, or not, can be upgraded either by crafting or by paying the difference. (Subject to any other constraints, such as level, access, etc.)
-The Craft activity can be used to upgrade any type of item to a more powerful version.
See the FAQ, you can instead pay a Pathfinder Lodge crafter to do the work for you.