As I understand it a tumor familiar only vaguely resembles an animal but it is not truly an animal. If this is the case what is its type/subtype? The core rules say that a familiar is treated as a magical beast for effects relating to type but does not say that its type actually changes from what it was before it became a familiar. So for example a king crab familiar would have the type Animal(Magical Beast)/Aquatic subtype. If a tumor familiar's type/subtype does not change from what it was before it became a familiar then for example a Human character's tumor familiar should have the type Humanoid(Magical Beast)/Human subtype? If this is the case when the familiar gains the "Speak with Animals of It's Kind" ability would that then mean it gains its masters language? The Ultimate Magic book says that vermin familiars communicate by a combination of behaviors,coloration,scent etc. and communicate with their masters and others of their kind in this manner. Would a tumor familiar more appropriately gain an ability like this and communicate with humanoids(others of its kind) in a manner that transcends language?
The secondary question is still what the tumor familiar communicates with as its kind as it is not an animal. Is it’s kind the same as it’s master?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A tumor familiar pretending to be a king crab would then have the ability to speak with other crustaceans, or crabs, or whatever ...
I see what you did there: a tumor that can talk with cancer. :D
I will accept that the intent is for the tumor familiar be able to speak with the type of creature it appears to be but am still curious as to what the familiars type actually is considering it is actually a lump of humanoid flesh. Does my assertion that it’s type is the same as it’s master(although treated as magical beast for effects on type) hold water?
It may just be typeless.
If you want to be really funny, put one on an android.
Or perhaps a construct with alchemist levels ;)
If I’m not mistaken when a creature becomes a familiar it still retains any subtypes it may possess (such as Aquatic). So would a human characters familiar have the type Magical Beast/Human subtype then?
Mark you seem to be getting hung up on the abilities aspect of the familiar. I’m trying to ascertain the familiars subtype. Subtype is not an ability so you would not gain such from emulating any particular creature. If it’s subtype is the same as it’s master then you could take the beast-bonded witch archetype and use it’s transfer feats class feature to give your tumor familiar race specific feats such as the half-orc brutal grappler feat. Which would be quite potent on a mauler familiar with grab like the king crab.
Mark you seem to be getting hung up on the abilities aspect of the familiar. I’m trying to ascertain the familiars subtype. Subtype is not an ability so you would not gain such from emulating any particular creature. If it’s subtype is the same as it’s master then you could take the beast-bonded witch archetype and use it’s transfer feats class feature to give your tumor familiar race specific feats such as the half-orc brutal grappler feat. Which would be quite potent on a mauler familiar with grab like the king crab.
is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type.
So, I don’t think the feats would apply
Ah too bad a half-orc king crab would have been interesting. Tumor familiars leave a lot of little unanswered questions in niche cases. I thank u all for your input especially Mark for putting up with my inane questions ;).
Tumor familiars really were underdeveloped. It's not even super clear how they work while attached. They work as your familiar while attached, so still provide that bonus for animal type, so are they still "animals" while attached? They still have hit points, because they get fast healing when attached. The Die for your Master feat tells us that an attached familiar can still take actions. It looks like an attached tumor familiar is for most intents and purposes still a separate living creature.
Makes me wonder does/should tumor familiar stack with other classes. What if u multiclassed into witch can it serve as ur familiar? What if u took the verdant familiar hex that changes its type to plant? What if u took a level of clocksmith wizard does ur tumor become a clockwork construct? What if u did both? A clockwork plant tumor? Multiclassing can really cause some issues.
You could be an aberrant sorcerer or bloodrager and take a bloodline familiar and the aberrant tumor feat. It's unclear how tumors work with regular familiars.
It's also unclear if you can't replace a tumor familiar with an improved familiar. A tumor can't be an improved familiar, but there's no reason the tumor couldn't qualify you to get a regular improved familiar, in place of the tumor.
I believe taking the bloodline familiar is unnecessary to gain a tumor familiar you only require the aberrant bloodline to qualify for the feat. In fact if u took the bloodline familiar option I believe the result would you gain a second familiar as the stacking rules state that levels in “different classes” stack for the purposes of determining the abilities of ur familiar and both the aberrant tumor and the bloodline familiar are tied to the same class. If they were to stack the result would be a double leveling familiar.
In fact I think that the abberant tumor feat may place the tumor familiar outside of normal stacking rules because the stacking rules state that levels in different classes that are entitled to familiars stack but given that the tumor familiar is granted by a feat and not a class it gets a little muddy. Without the aberrant tumor feat or bloodline familiar opinion the aberrant bloodline is not actually entitled to a familiar at all. Granted the aberrant tumor level is tied to the class/classes that grant the bloodline it is not in fact granted by the class or bloodline at all.
That was about my point. I was replying to the previous post about having a tumor familiar and a different familiar stacking. It's possible to do it in one class at level 1.
Personally, I think you'd just have 2 familiars. If you want to go even further down the rabbit hole, make the character a human worshipper of Calistria and also take the wasp familiar feat. 3 familiars at level 1.
Take a crossblooded sorcerer and add the serpentine bloodline and gain the viper familiar at level 3 as well. And then you could take the eldritch heritage feat and take the arcane bloodline and gain another familiar at level 3 too. Dump most of your stat points into CON and make them all mauler familiars and unleash the mob on your enemies:)
Just checked out wasp familiar. The feat limits you to only one familiar so that’s a no go on that one :(
Is there a huge advantage of a wasp familiar? Whenever you use the statistics for an imp, does it get all the spell=like abilities-commune et al- besides the one that replaces invisibility?
And if you got Tumor familiar with the Wasp feat, would it become a wasp tumor familiar with the statistics (and spell=like abilities) of an imp?
Wasp is an easy familiar for any class to gain. Or it's a more flavorful version of improved familiar. It seemingly gets the other SLAs of the Imp, though I feel detect law would have made more sense than detect good.
Tumor is a bit of a special case. It's possible you may be able to have a wasp familiar and a tumor familiar at the same time, if the tumor isn't a "real" familiar. Super grey areas around the tumor familiar.
It's a bit off topic, but the mix of bloodline familiar and wasp familiar is interesting. In theory, you'd get a wasp familiar with the powers of the bloodline familiar
If you took a level of witch u could add patron familiar abilities too.
And the verdant familiar hex to turn it into a plant and gain plant traits.
If you went humunculist alchemist you could add a bunch of 1 point eidolon evolutions.
Take a level of spirit binder wizard and give your familiar full BAB.
If u took the human eye for talent racial trait u could give it +2 STR then take racial heritage asimaar and take celestial companion to give it the celestial template. Make it a mauler familiar (which I can do because it wasn’t gained through the improved familiar feat which removes speak with animals of your kind) and u have a ridiculous killing machine as ur familiar. And yes I have put a lot of thought into turning a familiar into a front line tank because I thought it would be funny to say “Ok everyone don’t worry my familiar can be the tank tonight :).
I suppose you could buy soulbound doll construct and dump a bunch of gold into construct mods but where’s the fun in that?
I kinda like the idea of a familiar that can give a summoners eidolon a run for its money.
If u take wasp familiar a level of spirit binder wizard a level of coral witch with the verdant familiar hex and take the rest of ur levels in humunculist alchemist and dump most of your feats and discoveries into evolved familiar you can really make something crazy. You can even use the evolution points gained from the experimentation feature to make it large size down the road. Combined with the mauler archetype u could have ur familiar go toe to toe with a lot of front line combatants. Is this a good/wise build prolly not but it would be fun :)
The Familiar Automaton is a 7th level improved familiar but removing the core would kill your familiar(costing you gold to replace it). Also this would probably be considered an evil act and not allowed in PFS and requiring an atonement spell I think but don’t quote me on that.