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How do I find out what is on the Curated list for Avid Collector - Core Rulebook, and Esoteric Spellcaster - Core Rulebook? Do I have to buy it to know what's in it?
Also, how do I get access to spells in other books? For example, Sun Blade out of Lost Omens Character Guide would be perfect for my Paladin of Iomedae as he uses no ranged weapons. But, it has the Uncommon trait, so I cannot just select it. Unless I missed something, and I would like to know what that is.
Thank you!
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This should probably be in the Society forum, no?
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Venture-Agent, Online—VTT
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For contents of boons, looks at the organized play FAQ at https://paizo.com/pathfindersociety/faq
If you're talking about focus spells like Sun Blade, these come from feats and class or archetype abilities, you don't select them directly. This is why you'll often see a Common feat that grants an Unvommon focus spell.
Sun Blade, for example, is a feat that has Access requirements baked in. For PFS. To fulfill that "be a member of the Knights of Lastwall" requirement, you would look at the Secondary Initiation boon.
"How do I get access to spells in other books?" is a bit too general of a question, though. If you own the source, go to the Character Options page. If a spell is listed as Standard availability, you access it normally. No issue if it's Common. Need Access in some way if it is not. What form that Access comes in (if it is available in PFS in any way) is a specific question, though, not one with a universal answer.
Also, yes, questions that are specifically about PFS stuff like boon access should be in the Organized Play forum.
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Caveat to Hammerjack's statement. To prepare a spell from any book other than the core book, you must have used the "learn a spell" activity to learn it first, even if you are a cleric or druid, as these are spells that, while common enough that every druid/cleric can get ahold of them, not every druid / cleric knows how to ask their deity for that specific effect without doing some studying first.
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Venture-Agent, Online—VTT
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It's important to note that this is class dependent, not general. Cleric and druid, which know their entire common CRB list before they start using the Learn A Spell activity have got a reason for whether a spell is from the CRB to be specially important. A sorcerer or bard selecting spells for their repertoire has no equivalent concern.
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A sorcerer or bard selecting spells for their repertoire has no equivalent concern.
Do we know that's true? Because they have the same statement in Spell Repertoire as Clerics/Druids have in Divine/Primal that has been held us as the justification for needing Learn a Spell from other books.
Regardless, how does this interact with spells gained from boons, specifically Extinction Curse's chronicles?
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It's not the same language, although it may have been intended that way. Even then, the Designers themselves have mixed up the terms and definitions of "Access" and "Learn a Spell" on multiple occasions, so it might never have been understood universally.
At 1st level, you can prepare two 1st-level spells and five cantrips each morning from the common spells on the divine spell list in this book or from other divine spells to which you gain access.
At 1st level, you learn two 1st-level occult spells of your choice and five occult cantrips of your choice. You choose these from the common spells from the occult list or from other occult spells to which you have access.
Druid and Wizard have the same language as Cleric. Sorcerers have the same language as Bard.
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Venture-Agent, Online—VTT
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A sorcerer or bard selecting spells for their repertoire has no equivalent concern.Do we know that's true? Because they have the same statement in Spell Repertoire as Clerics/Druids have in Divine/Primal that has been held us as the justification for needing Learn a Spell from other books.
Regardless, how does this interact with spells gained from boons, specifically Extinction Curse's chronicles?
Sorcerer, bard, witch and oracle do not have that statement. I double-checked before writing this. That is why I know this is true.
PFS enforces an unpopular rule that is written in the spellcasting features of cleric, druid and wizard, which I had seen some people complain about back at CRB release and most people ignore before the statement that it would be enforced in org play. That is very different from adding text to the features of other classes, and I see no reason to assume that the latter would follow from the former without being stated as a campaign specific rule added to what's in the rulebooks.
As for guessing at design intent, I think Wizard is actually the only outlier. Cleric and druid would hit new players with massive option paralysis preparing spells from everything on the list, as those lists grow, and so some reason to limit them with language like what we see in the class entries is understandable. Bard, oracle and sorcerer have limited repertoires and would not have that problem. Witch has a limited starting list that is grown spell by spell and does not have that problem. The only thing that's really strange and points toward the published rules possibly being at odds with intent is wizard being treated like cleric instead of like witch (I would not be surprised if that was an accident of using one set of wording for all CRB prepared casters and one for all of the spontaneous repertoires, but org play does not usually make its own errata to fix that sort of thing even if my guess is right, so the rule in the class is the rule we play with unless the design team says that it was an error).
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Caveat to Hammerjack's statement. To prepare a spell from any book other than the core book, you must have used the "learn a spell" activity to learn it first, even if you are a cleric or druid, as these are spells that, while common enough that every druid/cleric can get ahold of them, not every druid / cleric knows how to ask their deity for that specific effect without doing some studying first.
I recognize that this seems to be the consensus that people have come to. And I'm comfortable with that consensus.
But I still have never been able to find words that actually say this in anything approximating an unambiguous fashion.
Could somebody please point me at the source to this consensus?
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Thank you, Nefreet, for pointing out the difference without being a smart ass about it.
Before this thread goes down the rabbit hole that the last one did, I am seeking clarification on chronicle granted access to spells for Druids and Clerics.
One With Nature: You gain access to the following environmental spells: breath of drought, personal rain cloud, rime slick, scouring sand, sea surge, sudden bolt, unseasonable squall, and verdant sprout.
Is the statement "you gain access" sufficient or do you also need to Learn a Spell since you're a druid?
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From what I understand, "Access" and "Learn a Spell" are different (but as I mentioned earlier, this isn't consistently referred to by everyone). Even though Clerics, for example, have "Access" to most Common spells from outside the Core Rulebook, they must still spend whatever resources are required to "Learn a Spell".
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Clerics having to “learn” power gifted by a deity—silly nonsense
No, they have to learn the necessary prayers to ask for unusual powers. It isn't like the diety is just looking over their shoulders suggesting what powers they should ask for each morning. (If that were the case they would not need to ask at all...)
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This the clearest rule I could find—I found nothing in the Guide—and I’m not saying it’s clear enough:
Having access to an uncommon or rarer spell means that your character(s) can learn the spell in the same way they learn other spells, provided they meet all prerequisites. A character must have access to the spell to learn it from another character that knows it. Only the PC with the relevant boon attached gains access to this spell.
Clerics and Druids don’t “learn” spells except by a blog post somewhere that I only know about because I read it when it was published but can’t find it easily now. “[They] can prepare two 1st-level spells and five cantrips each morning from the common spells on the divine spell list in this book or from other divine spells to which you gain access.” So when a boon “grants access” to a divine/primal spell, in absence of knowledge of that blog post, I would assume it goes straight to my spell list of spells available to be prepared.
And that’s without getting all bogged down in the syntax and semantics of the blog post, the line in the CRB, and the Organized Play PFS explanation of options and access in the FAQ.
So, the rule could be less cloudy.
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Clerics and Druids don’t “learn” spells except by a blog post
"If you have a spellbook, Learning a Spell lets you add the spell to your spellbook; if you prepare spells from a list, it's added to your list; if you have a spell repertoire, you can select it when you add or swap spells."
As far as I know, only Druids and Clerics "prepare spells from a list".
a blog post somewhere
I don't have a link to the blog post. But the rule from the blog post has been included in the season 3 guide.
"Spells
Any prepared spellcaster can use the Learn a Spell activity to learn any common spells they have access to from tutors at the Grand Lodge. This adds no additional material cost beyond the standard cost for the Learn a Spell activity. Spells from outside the Core Rulebook must be learned using the learn a spell activity before they can be used by prepared casters, even by clerics and druids."
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I don't currently have a prepared caster, so I don't have a horse in this race, but I have two quick questions about that quote:
Any prepared spellcaster can use the Learn a Spell activity to learn any common spells they have access to from tutors at the Grand Lodge.
Is it just me, or does this make it seem like you now need to Learn a Spell for Core spells, too?
Spells from outside the Core Rulebook must be learned using the learn a spell activity before they can be used by prepared casters, even by clerics and druids.
Does this now mean that Witches need to Learn a Spell for all of their Witch spells from the APG?
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I'm not going to argue whether you do or do not need the Learn a Spell activity to add a spell to the cleric/druid list in PFS. And it is helpful to put the blog post verbiage in the Guide so that it can be found.
However, that quote from Learn a Spell is not the rule that is clear. It is, in fact, not clear because context matters. That line is referencing where the spell goes after you have learned it. The skill activity itself describes its purpose in the first line:
You can gain access to a new spell of your tradition from someone who knows that spell or from magical writing like a spellbook or scroll.
That doesn't actually say--and, again, I'm not arguing that we don't need to use Learn a Spell in PFS--that you need to use this in adding spells to your list for boons, a uniquely PFS thing, or new books.
I would think of Learn a Spell if I gained a scroll of an uncommon divine spell. I wouldn't think of it if I gained a chronicle that says, "You gain access to Blah-Spelll," when my class' chapter says I can prepare any spell to which I gain access.
There's also the confusion that Nefreet brought up that I was trying to steer clear of.
1. The CRB says you can prepare 1st level spells from "this book" and other spells you gain access to. Does that mean I need Learn a Spell for al spells higher than 1st outside the CRB?
2. Do Witches/Oracles/all future spell casting classes need to Learn a Spell to learn spells that come from outside the CRB?
3. What about new deities (or even the current deities) whose list of bonus spells includes one or more spells from outside the CRB?
4. What about Esoteric Spellcaster? Do I need to Learn a Spell before I can prepare Protection?
It would be more clear if there was language in the guide (and/or the Additional Resources under the CRB) that explicitly stated that in PFS, Clerics and Druids (and any prepared caster that doesn't use a spellbook mechanic) can prepare any common spell from the CRB but must use Learn a Spell to add any other spell that they gain access to whether by purchasing a sanctioned book or earning a boon to their spell list. EDIT: (plus any exceptions that may or may not apply, like deity bonus spell lists) /EDIT
One last time, I'm not arguing that this isn't how it works in PFS, I'm just pointing out that it is not currently clear. The language going into Season 3 guide is helpful, but there are still cloudy areas that can be interpreted differently by different readers.
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I don't currently have a prepared caster, so I don't have a horse in this race, but I have two quick questions about that quote:
Any prepared spellcaster can use the Learn a Spell activity to learn any common spells they have access to from tutors at the Grand Lodge.Is it just me, or does this make it seem like you now need to Learn a Spell for Core spells, too?
No, just that they can. (Wizards, witches, and other prepared casters who have a "spellbook" or equivalent use Learn a Spell to add spells to that book. To do this, they need a caster who knows the spell to teach it to them. Absent this line, they could only learn spells from other PCs, or if they looted or purchased a spell book or scroll.
Spells from outside the Core Rulebook must be learned using the learn a spell activity before they can be used by prepared casters, even by clerics and druids.Does this now mean that Witches need to Learn a Spell for all of their Witch spells from the APG?
Aside from the ones they get for leveling up, they already do need to use learn a spell to add the spell to their familiar.
My *understanding* is that the spells you gain on level up count as having "learned the spell." That I could be wrong about.
"Each time you gain a level, your patron teaches your familiar two new spells"
I know that to be on the safe side, I have not been taking non CRB spells for my free level up spells.
Contributor
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To do this, they need a caster who knows the spell to teach it to them. Absent this line, they could only learn spells from other PCs, or if they looted or purchased a spell book or scroll.
Actually... I am not sure what the effect of looted spell books is. My boy scout group found a spell book in the last game. To learn spells from it -- one of them is a sorcerer with the arcane evolution and so now has a spell book -- what needs to be done? Do they still need to do the Learn a Spell activity on spells they find in a looted Spell Book?
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Venture-Agent, Online—VTT
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The Learn a Spell activity would definitely be used to try to learn the spells from a recovered spellbook. The addition of freely available teachers at the grand lodge makes the spellbook itself kind of irrelevant in society because of this, unless the scenario is one that takes place over multiple days, and there's a chance to learn and prep a new spell mid scenario (which can happen in at least one case that i know of).
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You can gain access to a new spell of your tradition from someone who knows that spell or from magical writing like a spellbook or scroll.
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To learn the spell, you must do the following:Spend 1 hour per level of the spell, during which you must remain in conversation with a person who knows the spell or have the magical writing in your possession.
Have materials with the Price indicated in Table 4–3.
Attempt a skill check for the skill corresponding to your tradition (DC determined by the GM, often close to the DC on Table 4–3). Uncommon or rare spells have higher DCs.If you have a spellbook, Learning a Spell lets you add the spell to your spellbook; if you prepare spells from a list, it's added to your list; if you have a spell repertoire, you can select it when you add or swap spells.
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To add the spell to *their* spellbook they would need the learn a spell activity.
Wizards can use any spellbook to prepare spells.
Arcane Evolution allows you to prepare spells from "your" spellbook.
Witches can explicitly only prepare spells from their familiar.
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As far as I can tell, learning a spell does not consume the spell from the spellbook or (unlike PF1) the scroll.
Witches can *either* have their familiar consume a scroll *or* use the Learn a spell activity to create a scrolllike version of the spell from a scroll or spell book or non witch caster.