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Hey, gonna be playing in a way of the wicked game and I've narrowed it down to two options. The first being a magus, the second a dragon discipline. The latter I've not had a lot of practice with, so I wanted to get peoples thoughts on my plan for them. The end goal is for him to fight, most of the time, as a powerful dragon. Via form of the dragon (8th level spell)
I'll be playing an aasimar, using the human FCB for sorc to get more spells.
monk (scaled fist) 1/anti paladin (2)/sorc 2/Dragon Disciple 9/sorc x in that order
Trait: magical knack
Ability scores: (we rolled focus foible)
Pre race modifiers.
Str: 18 +1 at 8,12,16,20
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Int: 08
Wis: 08
Cha: 17 +1 at 4
Ability scores after racial and class boosts
Str: 24 (+4 from dragon disciple, +2 from aasimar) +1 at 8,12,16,20
Dex: 16
Con: 16 (+2 from DD)
Int: 10 (+2 from DD)
Wis: 08
Cha: 19 (+2 from aasimar)+1 at 4 (20)
Feat Progression- (using feat tax)
(monk)1- Power attack (free), deadly aim(free), Dodge, Dragon Style (monk)
(antipaladin 2)3- Craft Wondrous Items
(sorcerer)5- Dragon Ferocity
(DD 2)7- Cornugon Smash, blind fight (bloodline feat)
(DD 4)9- Hurtful
(DD 5)10- Soulless Gaze
(DD 6)11- Fiendish skin
(DD 8)13- Maleficium (acid, electricity or fire)
(sorc 3)15- Mask of Virtue
(Sorc 5)17- ???
(sorc 7)19- ???
Spell selection would be buff and damage spells
Examples-
Shield
resist energy
stoneskin
haste
mirror image
heroism
Form of the dragon
Legendary proportions (swap this out once I get form of the dragon)
etc, etc.
The main issue is a lower than normal BaB for a front line fighter, however The strength bonuses and magic should help with that.
Do you think it will work?
You may want to consider monk (scaled fist) 1/[full BAB class with proficiency in all martial weapons]* 1/sorcerer 3/dragon disciple 4/eldritch knight 10/sorcerer +1 taking the feat Divine Protection, instead.
Pros:
- Higher total BAB (+16 at 20th level instead of +12)
- Better spell progression (8th-level spells at 20th level instead of 7th-level spells)
- Still can use Cha for monk abilities and on saves (at least once per day)
- Gains bonus feats at EK 1, EK 5, and EK 9
Cons:
- Has to use spells for form of the dragon I, instead of gaining it as a class ability at DD 7
- Will have fewer spells known, due to fewer actual sorcerer levels to use the FCB
- Doesn't gain as many bloodline powers
*- barbarian for rage might be a good choice for a character focused on melee combat
Also, you can't take Craft Wondrous Item at monk 1/antipaladin 2. Technically, your CL at that point is antipaladin 0 and sorcerer 2 (even though you can't actually cast spells); Craft Wondrous Item has a prerequisite of CL 3.
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For a frontliner build like this, I'd recommend just going straight Magus. You get
* Higher-level spells MUCH earlier (e.g. Magus gets 4th-level spells at level 10, your build gets them at level 13);
* Better AC because you can actually wear armor;
* Better BAB;
* More hit points earlier in your career (more-or-less the same at level 20);
* Bonus feats from the entire list of combat feats, instead of the short list for your bloodline;
* All the spells you list are on the Magus list, except resist energy (you can use Spell Blending for that);
* Pounce ability via Spell Combat
Is there a particular reason to go DD-9 then not DD-10?
It seems like the last level of DD would give you everything an extra Sorcerer level would, but also Blindsense and upgrades your Form Of The Dragon ability.
You're dipping enough that 8th level spells won't happen. You get to be CL 16 with spells as a 14th level sorcerer at level 20. 14th level sorcerers only get up to 7th level spells of course. Taking the last 2 feats as favored prestige class (DD) and prestigious spellcaster fixes that, barely.
What's fixed about this character? You want the 4 dammnation feats, to fight in melee as a dragon ending in form of the dragon III, stats as given - anything else fixed?
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Is there a particular reason to go DD-9 then not DD-10?
It seems like the last level of DD would give you everything an extra Sorcerer level would, but also Blindsense and upgrades your Form Of The Dragon ability.
Apologies, that is actually a typo, I was planning to go with only 8 levels in DD, so I wouldn't lose the CL from 9th.
Though I may just go the full 10.
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For a frontliner build like this, I'd recommend just going straight Magus. You get
* Higher-level spells MUCH earlier (e.g. Magus gets 4th-level spells at level 10, your build gets them at level 13);
* Better AC because you can actually wear armor;
* Better BAB;
* More hit points earlier in your career (more-or-less the same at level 20);
* Bonus feats from the entire list of combat feats, instead of the short list for your bloodline;
* All the spells you list are on the Magus list, except resist energy (you can use Spell Blending for that);
* Pounce ability via Spell Combat
higher level spells are not an issue really, and the magus comes out with less spells per day (not including spell recall, which I love) and lower level spell overall
The AC is actually probably better for the DD. Monk gives charisma to AC instead of Wis, and I can use mage armor/bracers of armor to get a higher AC than actual armor would give me. Especially once I start getting +str/dex belts and Charisma headbands.BaB- True, but not by much. a level 17 magus ( I don't like looking at "20" to be honest.) has a 12 BaB, my idea here (without changes) would have a 12 as well. 3 from monk/paladin, 3 from total sorc levels (6), 6 from DD (8) at level 20, the magus has 15, the above build would have around 13 I think. But +4 strength above the magus which makes that a wash.
- I don't mind most of the bonus feats for the bloodline, I actually like some of them. So its not that big of a deal.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the magus, its one of if not my favorite class mechanically and flavor wise. But this also means I've played it a few times already. Wanted to branch out. (besides, magus doesn't want to fight in dragon form)
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You're dipping enough that 8th level spells won't happen. You get to be CL 16 with spells as a 14th level sorcerer at level 20. 14th level sorcerers only get up to 7th level spells of course. Taking the last 2 feats as favored prestige class (DD) and prestigious spellcaster fixes that, barely.
What's fixed about this character? You want the 4 dammnation feats, to fight in melee as a dragon ending in form of the dragon III, stats as given - anything else fixed?
I can get 8th level spells originally (as I said, I only planned to take 8 levels of DD) with the prestige spellcaster feat.
I would like to be effective throughout the game. I'm not worried too terribly post level 15, or pre level 5, but I'm looking for help keeping the character up to par/alive through those middling levels. (mainly 5-11)
Other than what you listed, nothing really is set in stone, though I'd rather not change the sorcerer aspect, as I have a fun idea for the dragon bloodline.
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I would like to be effective throughout the game. I'm not worried too terribly post level 15, or pre level 5, but I'm looking for help keeping the character up to par/alive through those middling levels.
Yeah, the gist of my comments is that you'll be fine at level 18'ish, but be struggling through half of your career to get there.
In that case I suggest to drop the paladin levels (or move them to much later) to get your build online faster. Am I correct that they're mainly there to get cha to saving throws? Because that's a great ability but it doesn't help your core concept to be a dragon.
Maybe replace the monk by lore oracle, which gets cha to AC and to one save, at least (and for a dip of one level, not three).
Could be both a Magus AND a Dragon Disciple...
Eldritch Scion Magus 1-5/
Dragon Disciple 6-15/
Eldritch Scion Magus 16+
At 15:
BAB +10
Base Saves +9/+4/+9
CL 12, 4th level spells
I'd go Eld Scion4, ScaledFist1, DD4, then EldKnight10 til lvl19, and take EldScion5 as lvl 20. Some tables play with 1 PrC per character, but I don't, so if your table allows 2 PrC's, this build is extremely fun.
Once you have DD4, you should be at 3rd lvl arcane spells, so entering EK1 at lvl 10 is cool. This puts your casting progression back a couple levels, but your melee presence is strong.
If you're thinking about tanking with this character, a 2 lvl dip in Paladin after DD4 is pretty beneficial too; 1/day smite and +cha to saves is super tempting. If you drop too many CL's from all this dipping, you can focus your spell selection on Buffing spells like Haste/Displacement and Mobility spells like DDoor and Expeditious Retreat, and No Save Crowd Control like Toppling Magic Missiles.
There is of course another class which gets a draconic bloodline, and it may be better at the 'turning into a dragon and eating faces' part of the dragon disciple. I refer to the bloodrager. No, you won't ever get form of the dragon spells, but that was coming in later than the level 15 horizon you're looking at anyway. You still get the dragon disciple class ability to turn into a dragon at character level 12, and the bloodrager draconic bloodline ability to do so at level 16.
Bloodrager 5 / dragon disciple 10 / bloodrager +5 should be effective. You can wear armor without issues. It makes the level 5-11 part a lot easier to deal with IMO.
Also, you can't take Craft Wondrous Item at monk 1/antipaladin 2. Technically, your CL at that point is antipaladin 0 and sorcerer 2 (even though you can't actually cast spells); Craft Wondrous Item has a prerequisite of CL 3.
I would assume that he selected the sorcerer class for his Magical Knack trait. That would give him a sorcerer CL of 3 at character level 3. He can gain one more +1 to CL at Dragon Disciple 1. This won't advance his spells known or spell per day, but those don't matter for caster level prerequisites.
Is it sad that all my favorite Dragon Disciple builds are Kobold Divine casters using Scaled Disciple to gain access?
Obviously not a power gamer. Lol.
I enjoy the thought of correcting the weaknesses they dumped on Kobolds more than juicing up some character with extra power that doesn't actually need it.
Three of my personal favorites are:
Wild Whisperer Druid 10/
Dragon Disciple 10/
VMC Sorcerer
Has a Deinonychus animal companion, because both of them are little chicken lizards. Rawr.
Divine Commander Warpriest 10/
Dragon Disciple 10/
VMC Sorcerer
Has a Deinonychus animal companion, because both of them are little chicken lizards. Rawr.
Pearl Seeker Paladin 10/
Dragon Disciple 10
Has a Hippocampus animal companion, because it's freaking hilarious. Lol.
You can VMC Sorcerer for the Draconic Bloodline like the other two did, but it won't help the Paladin suck any less...
Also, you can't take Craft Wondrous Item at monk 1/antipaladin 2. Technically, your CL at that point is antipaladin 0 and sorcerer 2 (even though you can't actually cast spells); Craft Wondrous Item has a prerequisite of CL 3.I would assume that he selected the sorcerer class for his Magical Knack trait. That would give him a sorcerer CL of 3 at character level 3. He can gain one more +1 to CL at Dragon Disciple 1. This won't advance his spells known or spell per day, but those don't matter for caster level prerequisites.
Please explain where a monk 1/antipaladin 2 with no sorcerer levels (his progression) gets a sorcerer caster level to add to the +2 from Magical Knack at character level 3...