Callum |
Various things (eg precipitation) can reduce visibility ranges to three-quarters or half of normal. But what are normal visibility ranges outdoors?
marcryser |
The horizon, at sea level, on an Earth sized planet is about 5 kilometers away. The higher the observer's eyes are from sea level, the farther away the horizon is from the observer.
Pathfinder rules and "-1 perception per 10 feet" aside, that starts to give an estimate as to how far away is too far to see something. A person walking along the top of a sand dune can be seen by another person hiding behind a similar sand dune for several miles.
Claxon |
Yeah, the rules don't do a good job for how far one can see "outside".
Obviously you can see the sun and even some planets with the naked eye, when they're millions of miles away.
The horizon, as mentioned, is several miles away depending on your elevation relative to the land around you.
The rules in the book work best for noticing stuff "close" to you, with close being probably distances less than a mile but more than several hundred feat but no real clarity where to cut it.
In short...you just kind of have to wing it.
Callum |
Thanks for your replies. Specific perception penalties for different types of precipitation are already given in the weather section.
It's the phrasing that puzzles me - saying "Light fog reduces visibility to three-quarters of the normal ranges" suggests that there are normal ranges for visibility (and these ranges should be outdoor ones, since rain, snow and fog are likely to be encountered outdoors).
SheepishEidolon |
Yeah, IMO for unrestricted sight it only depends on your Perception check. Which results in a 50% chance to notice some Medium creature / object 110 feet away, if you have Perception +0. For a modifier of +20 it would be 310 feet accordingly, or a guaranteed perception (roll of 1 is enough) at 220 feet. I'd add the size modifiers to Stealth if necessary.
Sparse forest IMO just adds a cap of 105 feet in average. So a creature with bad Perception isn't handicapped there much, but a cliche elven ranger ironically is.
If your visibility range is reduced by (let's say) 1/4, I'd reduce the Perception result accordingly - and also the terrain-based cap, if any.
bbangerter |
Well you take a -1 on perception checks for every 10 feet of distance between you and the target. So if visibility is reduced by half I guess that penalty would double, and so on and so forth.
Only against creatures trying to hide from you, or to notice fine details.
For non-fine details like the sun, or clouds in the sky, or mountains, a forest, etc. That really is going to come down to GM call based on terrain, current weather conditions, curvature of the planet, etc. eg, as a GM set it to whatever you want it to be to create the appropriate tone for the current part of the campaigns story.
*Thelith |
I would say the sun has a pretty huge penalty on it's stealth check...
490B feet away.. so that's -49B perception check, but the sun probably has a -100B to it's modifier..
That explains being able to see the sun in pathfinder...
But like others have said, max vision is perception skill+20 x10 feet... However, someone standing in an empty field is probably not a 0 to see, probably more like -20, so you could see them farther away.
Mark Hoover 330 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Terrain helps define "outside." Different terrains give different max distances for Perception checks. For example:
Stealth and Detection in a Forest
In a sparse forest, the maximum distance at which a Perception check for detecting the nearby presence of others can succeed is 3d6 × 10 feet. In a medium forest, this distance is 2d8 × 10 feet, and in a dense forest it is 2d6 × 10 feet.
Because any square with undergrowth provides concealment, it’s usually easy for a creature to use the Stealth skill in the forest. Logs and massive trees provide cover, which also makes hiding possible.
The background noise in the forest makes Perception checks that rely on sound more difficult, increasing the DC of the check by 2 per 10 feet, not 1.
Is that what you're looking for?
yukongil |
Terrain helps define "outside." Different terrains give different max distances for Perception checks. For example:
Forest Terrain wrote:Stealth and Detection in a Forest
In a sparse forest, the maximum distance at which a Perception check for detecting the nearby presence of others can succeed is 3d6 × 10 feet. In a medium forest, this distance is 2d8 × 10 feet, and in a dense forest it is 2d6 × 10 feet.
Because any square with undergrowth provides concealment, it’s usually easy for a creature to use the Stealth skill in the forest. Logs and massive trees provide cover, which also makes hiding possible.
The background noise in the forest makes Perception checks that rely on sound more difficult, increasing the DC of the check by 2 per 10 feet, not 1.
Is that what you're looking for?
ninja'd by over a month! Got to be quicker on that draw... :P