Any chance you can add a generic "caster" option so we can compare the martials to classes that peak at expert proficiency?
And maybe an extra option for Warpriest since that one has a unique progression and might want to add stuff like Emblazon Armament/Energy.
I can probably fix something for this in the coming days.
New update:
Added rest of all classes, but I only count proficiencies and weapon specializations. Battle and Ancestors mystery for Oracle has their curses added where ancestors only count their martial stance.
Actually surprised over how good Battle and Ancestors Oracle is performing at level 10-11 when major curse kick in. (well ancestors will only perform that good 50% of the time due to their curse mechanic)
New Update:
Okay one more, have now added a new "Primary Spellcaster" option that lets you test cantrip progression.
Next in line is animal companions, probably coming after x-mas. But who knows, I might get bored again before that ^^.
how did you calculate crane style flutter because it makes more than up for the difference in damage dice? Just an extra attack per round at -2 to hit would make sense and probably also play out like that mostly.
Actually overtakes all the other options.
Otherwise stumbling stance expectedly performs best but not by that much
Don't overwork yourself this tool is amazing already.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
how did you calculate crane style flutter because it makes more than up for the difference in damage dice? Just an extra attack per round at -2 to hit would make sense and probably also play out like that mostly.
Actually overtakes all the other options.
If you have the button on its on state (green) it means it will add that reaction attack to the pool as a free attack. I can't really assume how often it would trigger, so I let the user compare it a round without the reaction used and one with using it. But yeah, short answer, it only adds one more free attack at -2 to hit.
This is the same behavior for the other reactions. I'm thinking of moving reactions into it's own place where you can enter a %-value on how likely it is you will get the reaction and add damage after that. (also will unlock AoO for all classes after level 4 to count it in for multiclassing. But this is scheduled after animal companion).
Don't overwork yourself this tool is amazing already.
Thanks for the kind words! And don't worry, I will keep my workload healthy ^^.
Was surprised that a ruffian with a long spear fared well against a thief with a rapier and a dogslicer
d8 reach vs d6 deadly d8 + d6 agile backstabber
gets way outpaced by double slice however until you get the feats that let you attack multiple opponents at 0 MAP
I tried really hard to find a combination of a simple weapon + agile weapon that was better than rapier + dogslicer, which both are finesse and neither simple)
d6 deadly d8 seems to be slightly less damage than a d8 weapon in general. But thief still has the advantage of having the freedom to "dump" str.
Now if only I could find an agile d6 blunt weapon...
Now if only I could find an agile d6 blunt weapon...
The polytool and sap both fit that bill.
Was surprised that a ruffian with a long spear fared well against a thief with a rapier and a dogslicer
d8 reach vs d6 deadly d8 + d6 agile backstabber
gets way outpaced by double slice however until you get the feats that let you attack multiple opponents at 0 MAPI tried really hard to find a combination of a simple weapon + agile weapon that was better than rapier + dogslicer, which both are finesse and neither simple)
Reach is one of those thing which doesn't plug so easily into these damage calulators, as it play's into the probabily of being able to do the action at all.
If you consider it with Opportune Baskstab and Prepartion, the exra reach is very useful.
Also don't forget that it is possible to have a secondary attack with beak/bite/horm/claw even if you have both hands in use.
The classic light hammer is also d6 blunt/agile
Rogue needs it to be finesse to use Dex to hit as well. So generally prefers finesse and agile for a Thief rogue.
Ooops, yeah, I meant Finesse not Agile, derp
Doing a proper scan of the list, the nunchaku fits the bill, but would have to get proficiency somehow.
Otherwise the only other Finesse blunt weapon I see are Light Mace and Fists
Reach is one of those thing which doesn't plug so easily into these damage calulators, as it play's into the probabily of being able to do the action at all.
If you consider it with Opportune Baskstab and Prepartion, the exra reach is very useful.
Also don't forget that it is possible to have a secondary attack with beak/bite/horm/claw even if you have both hands in use.
Using an agile unarmed attack as an optional extra attack is really smart but the Witch is the only way to get access to an unarmed attack that's not tied to the hands that's agile.
And yeah I wasn't trying to undersell Reach I was very positively surprised.
Now what was completely disappointing was the 16 dex requirement on staff acrobat.
Reach is one of those thing which doesn't plug so easily into these damage calulators, as it play's into the probabily of being able to do the action at all.
If you consider it with Opportune Baskstab and Prepartion, the exra reach is very useful.
Also don't forget that it is possible to have a secondary attack with beak/bite/horm/claw even if you have both hands in use.
Using an agile unarmed attack as an optional extra attack is really smart but the Witch is the only way to get access to an unarmed attack that's not tied to the hands that's agile.
And yeah I wasn't trying to undersell Reach I was very positively surprised.
Now what was completely disappointing was the 16 dex requirement on staff acrobat.
From what I have read fists don't count for the Thief Racket dex as damage ability as it requires melee weapons. Unarmed attacks apparently don't work as weapons for such abilities.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Using an agile unarmed attack as an optional extra attack is really smart but the Witch is the only way to get access to an unarmed attack that's not tied to the hands that's agile.
Lots of ancestries have natural weapons, many of them are agile. Clawed Catfolk have 4 claws not 2. Tengu talons are also clearly on their feet. So even if both hands are busy they can strike with their feet.
In fact every one has an agile unarmed attack that is not a hand - it is called fist more commonly known as a head butt or a foot. It is agile and finesse.
Read these again
Unarmed attack can be with other parts of the body and use the rules for fist
It doesn't take a hand Though if you actually use your fist it does require your hand to be free. But if you headbutt, kick or tail slap, it doesn't require a hand.
A fist is effectively a 0+ handed weapon.
From what I have read fists don't count for the Thief Racket dex as damage ability as it requires melee weapons. Unarmed attacks apparently don't work as weapons for such abilities.Reach is one of those thing which doesn't plug so easily into these damage calulators, as it play's into the probabily of being able to do the action at all.
If you consider it with Opportune Baskstab and Prepartion, the exra reach is very useful.
Also don't forget that it is possible to have a secondary attack with beak/bite/horm/claw even if you have both hands in use.
Using an agile unarmed attack as an optional extra attack is really smart but the Witch is the only way to get access to an unarmed attack that's not tied to the hands that's agile.
And yeah I wasn't trying to undersell Reach I was very positively surprised.
Now what was completely disappointing was the 16 dex requirement on staff acrobat.
Yeah unarmed attacks are strictly separated from weapons in PF2 unlike the mess that was PF1. An unarmed Rogue would have to be a weapon agnostic racket like Scoundrel which is obviously getting more into "making a suboptimal concept work" territory. Should have much better luck using unarmed strikes with the Investigator chassis, I think.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
New update:
This update is not so interesting from a feature stand point as I have mostly done some refactoring and cleaned up how the main view works behind the scene.
I have also added a way to pop-out the graph, if you want more space vertically.
Fixed a bug that spellcasters didn't get any bonus dmg from the "Bonus to dmg" field (which is now renamed "Buffs to.." to hopefully make it cleared what it is for.)
Because this update has a slighter higher risk of bugs or cause strange issues with the pop-out feature and that I refactored the communication between the graph and the input fields, I have duplicated the previous release at Rollback.
I have tested everything and didn't find any issues, but just incase, you have a way to use the tool if I destroyed it ^^.
Still on the agenda is to add animal companions (this one will also include animal progression like mature, nimble, savage etc.) And will be available to add for all classes as the Archetype Beastmaster is easily accessible in most games. I might also make it available as a stand alone "class" to compare with.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah unarmed attacks are strictly separated from weapons in PF2 unlike the mess that was PF1. An unarmed Rogue would have to be a weapon agnostic racket like Scoundrel which is obviously getting more into "making a suboptimal concept work" territory. Should have much better luck using unarmed strikes with the Investigator chassis, I think.From what I have read fists don't count for the Thief Racket dex as damage ability as it requires melee weapons. Unarmed attacks apparently don't work as weapons for such abilities.
Yeah but unarmed attacks still count for sneak attack. There are just a few abilities which specifically require weapons. So its not all that bad.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Unarmed attacks:
"...However, unarmed attacks aren’t weapons, and effects and abilities that work with weapons never work with unarmed attacks unless they specifically say so."
Sneak attack:
"When your enemy can’t properly defend itself, you take advantage to deal extra damage. If you Strike a creature that has the flat-footed condition with an agile or finesse melee weapon, an agile or finesse unarmed attack, or a ranged weapon attack, you deal an extra 1d6 precision damage. For a ranged attack with a thrown melee weapon, that weapon must also be agile or finesse."
Thief on dex to damage:
"...When you attack with a finesse melee weapon, you can add your Dexterity modifier to damage rolls instead of your Strength modifier."
So after reading those we can see that sneak attack is okay, but the dex damage from thief racket does not qualify :).
Yeah but unarmed attacks still count for sneak attack. There are just a few abilities which specifically require weapons. So its not all that bad.Yeah unarmed attacks are strictly separated from weapons in PF2 unlike the mess that was PF1. An unarmed Rogue would have to be a weapon agnostic racket like Scoundrel which is obviously getting more into "making a suboptimal concept work" territory. Should have much better luck using unarmed strikes with the Investigator chassis, I think.From what I have read fists don't count for the Thief Racket dex as damage ability as it requires melee weapons. Unarmed attacks apparently don't work as weapons for such abilities.
Yes, that's why I said unarmed attacks work with the other rackets. You just can't make an unarmed Rogue out of Thief or Ruffian since their benefits are specifically for weapons.
Clearly this is mostly a backup option, or for when you get caught with your hands full. It is worth knowing.
Also works for Rangers with their hunters edge. Again not with some important feats like Twin Takedown. But there are some Ranger builds and situations that will want to use it now and then.
Lots of ancestries have natural weapons, many of them are agile. Clawed Catfolk have 4 claws not 2. Tengu talons are also clearly on their feet. So even if both hands are busy they can strike with their feet.
In fact every one has an agile unarmed attack that is not a hand - it is called fist more commonly known as a head butt or a foot. It is agile and finesse.
Read these again
Unarmed attack can be with other parts of the body and use the rules for fist
It doesn't take a hand Though if you actually use your fist it does require your hand to be free. But if you headbutt, kick or tail slap, it doesn't require a hand.A fist is effectively a 0+ handed weapon.
I had not considered attacking with legs making Clawed Catfolk and Talon Tengu quite the appealing choice.
Also yeah unarmed attacks clearly don't work with ruffian or thief, which is sometimes annoying, looking at you brawler rogue, but can be remedied with gauntlets to some degree for the ruffian.
Well if you are going to go with guantlets, then you should also consider a spiked boot. I don't think it currently exists in the game but given the rules it should.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think I found a bug. Every time I choose a Ranger with Precision Edge and set the number of attacks per turn larger than 1, I get a blank screen as result. The graphs as well as the input disappear completely.
Tested in three different browsers (Firefox, Chrome, Edge).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I can repro that too.
TypeError: Cannot read property '1' of undefined
at U (HelpFunctions.tsx:162)
at $ (HelpFunctions.tsx:348)
at Wi (PCClass.tsx:504)
at PCClass.tsx:346
at Ns (react-dom.production.min.js:262)
at t.unstable_runWithPriority (scheduler.production.min.js:18)
at Va (react-dom.production.min.js:122)
at Ds (react-dom.production.min.js:261)
at Ne (react-dom.production.min.js:292)
at Xt (react-dom.production.min.js:73)
I think I found a bug. Every time I choose a Ranger with Precision Edge and set the number of attacks per turn larger than 1, I get a blank screen as result. The graphs as well as the input disappear completely.
Tested in three different browsers (Firefox, Chrome, Edge).
I can repro that too.
Thank you for the bug report, and I have now uploaded a fix. I should probably add a "report bug"-feature in the bottom so I notice it faster.
Haven't been working on the tool since last update, but I plan to take it up again in a week or two (adding animal companions etc)
And again, thank you!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thanks for all the work you are putting into this
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
@TheAziraphale: Seriously, YOU are the one deserving thanks. The tool is great!
I have two requests/suggestions, though.
1. Could you add an option to delete a character? Sometimes I end up comparing 4+ classes and would like a option to throw one or two out without resetting the whole thing. Also maybe an option to add a copy of a character so I don't have to set up all class options again if I just want to compare the damage of different weapons or something.
2. Not sure how possible/feasible this is, but I would love an option to lock the scale. Maybe to damage up to 50 or something. The automatic re-scaling of the graphs makes it hard to see at a glance how small adjustments affect the damage.
@TheAziraphale: Seriously, YOU are the one deserving thanks. The tool is great!
I have two requests/suggestions, though.
1. Could you add an option to delete a character? Sometimes I end up comparing 4+ classes and would like a option to throw one or two out without resetting the whole thing. Also maybe an option to add a copy of a character so I don't have to set up all class options again if I just want to compare the damage of different weapons or something.
2. Not sure how possible/feasible this is, but I would love an option to lock the scale. Maybe to damage up to 50 or something. The automatic re-scaling of the graphs makes it hard to see at a glance how small adjustments affect the damage.
Good suggestions, I will look into it!