I've been toying with the idea of a grappling sort of build. The problem is figuring out what to do once she's grabbed someone. Assume that she has a one-handed weapon and a non-bite natural weapon. Aside from taking potshots at someone who's stuck there and is flatfooted, what else can you do with a grapplee (and if potshots, can the natural weapon come into play)?
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I don't think you can really do much beyond 'pot-shots', which I believe can be natural attacks as long as it isn't a natural attack from the 'free hand' that is grappling.
Remember that you'll need to make at least one Grapple attempt each round to establish/maintain your hold, and possibly more if you fail the check on the first attempt.
I don't think you can really do much beyond 'pot-shots', which I believe can be natural attacks as long as it isn't a natural attack from the 'free hand' that is grappling.
Remember that you'll need to make at least one Grapple attempt each round to establish/maintain your hold, and possibly more if you fail the check on the first attempt.
So Grapple here is less 'twist into pretzel for damage' and more 'yank arm, punch/stab in gut'. Something that's probably a good option in timely situations but not as much as 'trip up, beat on ground' for normal battles?
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As I am reading the rules on grapple and comparing to previous editions that I am familiar with, the point isn't what you can do, what I notice is the lack of things that you can't do while grappling someone.
Grappling someone doesn't apply any penalties to you. It doesn't restrict your choice of actions at all.
If you choose to move away from the grappled enemy, the grabbed condition ends automatically, so moving may not be an ideal choice to spend an action on. But you still can if you want/need to.
Other things you can do:
Attack with that one-handed weapon you mentioned.
Attack with a natural weapon (bite or otherwise).
Cast a spell at the grabbed enemy.
Cast a spell at something else.
Attack a different enemy within your reach.
Draw and use a thrown weapon at a different enemy.
Also noteworthy: The flat-footed condition that is part of the grabbed condition applies against all other creatures. So anyone else attacking the enemy you grabbed can take advantage of the flat-footed condition - no flanking needed.
So Grapple here is less 'twist into pretzel for damage' and more 'yank arm, punch/stab in gut'. Something that's probably a good option in timely situations but not as much as 'trip up, beat on ground' for normal battles?
Yes, grapple's primary benefit is to stop movement and give an advantage in hitting the target.
To be a better damaging grappler pick up more martial artist related feats or go monk :)
I don't think you can really do much beyond 'pot-shots', which I believe can be natural attacks as long as it isn't a natural attack from the 'free hand' that is grappling.
Curious on this one. I don't see anything in the grapple rules that limit your use of the free-hand that is required for using the grapple action. So as far as I can tell, you should be able to have a punch unarmed attack, something in your other hand, and still be able to grapple, then punch with that free hand.
Am I missing something? Maybe something saying that using an unarmed attack makes your free-hands no longer count as free-hands because they are used in making an attack?
Or is this a house rule that you didn't realize that you had added to your games?
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I personally like to trip before grappling so the creature can't stand up until they get out of the grapple.
Grapple alone is when you want do stop creature movement, either to stop it from going to the backline or to keep it in something like a wall of fire.
Fighter level 6 feat dazing blow. It's amazing.
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I don't think you can really do much beyond 'pot-shots', which I believe can be natural attacks as long as it isn't a natural attack from the 'free hand' that is grappling.Curious on this one. I don't see anything in the grapple rules that limit your use of the free-hand that is required for using the grapple action. So as far as I can tell, you should be able to have a punch unarmed attack, something in your other hand, and still be able to grapple, then punch with that free hand.
Am I missing something? Maybe something saying that using an unarmed attack makes your free-hands no longer count as free-hands because they are used in making an attack?
Or is this a house rule that you didn't realize that you had added to your games?
I'm not aware of any specific rule along these lines, but common sense seems to say you can't generally use the actual 'grabbing' hand for anything else without losing your Grab.
The 'Free-Hand' weapon trait doesn't technically apply to unarmed Fist attacks (as they don't have this trait), but anything that would prevent you from punching your foe with a gauntlet should probably prevent you from punching it with a gauntlet-less fist.
Source
Core Rulebook pg. 282 1.1
Of course, this is all kinda moot since you can probably just kick your foe instead...
Grapple is also good against spell casters, as always. People that are grabbed have to pass a flat 5 DC when they succeed at manipulate actions (which affects every spell that isn't purely verbal).
So this is pretty much the thing you do when you find a wizard-y enemy. Grab them so they can't run, and do back breakers on them if they try to do jazz hands.
This really makes me feel like acrobatics to escape grapples are a near essential on most casters.
There are a fair number of class feats which open grapple options.
Fighters:
Dazing Blow
Combat Grab
Monks:
Gorilla Stance
Crushing Grab
Whirling Throw
Sleeper Hold
Barbarian:
Thrash
Collateral Thrash
Tangle of Battle
Embrace the Pain
Brutal Bully
And probably some others I'm forgetting. So you probably want to be a monk or barbarian. There might be a ruffian feat out there too.
Well, you can "kick" yourself free using unarmed if you dont want to invest in acrobatics.
It wont have the same max bonus, since usually casters would be capping at expert unarmed while with acrobatics they could go up to legendary, but there is also the opportunity cost of using one of your 3 skill upgrades on acrobatics instead of something else.
Well, acrobatics also seems like the "don't embarrass yourself by face planting" skill.
I won't argue that you should go legendary... but there are plenty of skill upgrades between 7 and 15. Master and maybe a spare magic item seems like a decent investment. It is certainly easier to justify than grabbing handwraps to get a bonus on wild flailing.
grabbing someone who is prone puts them in a really bad spot. They are -2 on attacks and AC, and they have to break the grab before they can even try to stand up. If they succeed, then they are 2 actions down and have map. It is very effective against solo enemies if you are really built to athletics.
grabbing someone who is prone puts them in a really bad spot. They are -2 on attacks and AC, and they have to break the grab before they can even try to stand up. If they succeed, then they are 2 actions down and have map. It is very effective against solo enemies if you are really built to athletics.commonly known as the noble art of dogpiling
Great if you have AoO, or some similar alternative that punishes move actions like Stand Still. It lets you get that one last kick in the gut before they can get back into the fight. Just make the entire experience miserable.
so the thing is, you are often less of a grappler and more of a combat maneuver specialist, depending on class you might be able to get a +2 or item bonus to grappling and be even better at that specifically, but you are not limited to it.
so you grapple when it would be appropriate. 2e is highly mobile, so grappling a fast enemy is great for you and your teamates, or a creature capable of flight.
flat footed as others have mentioned is also nice.
but you still have access to all the other combat maneuvers.
Also trip and grapple go against different save DCs, which means an athletics build for maneuvers can be very reliable at inflicting flat-footed one way or another.
Yeah, and with Assurance you can often trade a third attack to hit one of these on a creature your level or lower.