All Caster Party vs Golems (magic immunity)

[halig feax]

Hello, all!

A party of three, including myself, are considering a full caster party –starting at 1st level and going to 20th level. Could be a really fun dynamic.

As to ability, we'll have an array of spells ranging from divine and arcane, to buff/debuff, and blasting. We should be good on all that. We'll just have to play smart and be creative. That's not the problem. The problem is when magic isn't an option, like a magic immune golem.

If the three of us get surprised by a golem and can't get away, we're screwed. What about some other similar problems of magic not working?

Any advice out there?

Thanks for reading.

[avr]

Golems aren't immune to magic when there's no SR involved. Summoning monsters, buffing up then attacking in melee, creating pits underneath the golems, just flying away - all of these work for you.

[PCScipio]

Grease is also very effective against golems (they have poor Reflex saves).

One character could be a high-strength longspear using reach tactics. For example, someone could be a Battle Spirit Speaker for the Past Shaman.

EDIT: An example party: The above shaman, a Silvan Sorceror (gets an animal companion), and a druid (also with an animal companion). I played all the way through Ironfang Invasion in a party whose front line was a shaman and two animal companions, and it worked well.

[zza ni]

what you should worry is anti-magic area (and to some degree spell resistance)

[Meirril]

The major problem full casters run into is endurance. You only have so many spells per day, and it is very easy to consume your resources at a rate where you can only do a few encounters per day.

At low levels a few scrolls give you enough umph to go that extra room. At mid levels consider crafting wands. You'll also want to aim for items that have unlimited use, or a number of uses per day. Pearls of Power and other items that effectively give you more spells per day are also something to keep in mind.

If you are a 3/4 BAB caster, it is a good idea to set yourself up for melee combat. It might not be your specialty, but in this party you'll be the best at it. Also, if your GM doesn't tailor all of the loot to your party, you should have your pick of armor and weapons from the treasure the party receives.

If your campaign is Kingmaker where you generally have 1 encounter per day, it works out great. If you are in a more traditional dungeon exploring type game, you might not have an option of doing 4 encounters and then returning the next day. Especially if you blow your best spells on the first encounter.

Also when you get to high levels SR is a thing... but that usually isn't a game breaker. Being specialized in a spell can be, because most high level creatures have a wide variety of immunities. If you belong to a class with limited spell selection, try to make sure you have spells, feats or items that can help you overcome immunity for your spells of choice. Or have a plan B to fall back on.

[Ryan Freire]

Summons.

If you are all going to be full caster as in full 9th level caster, one of you should consider the occultist arcanist, saurian shaman druid or the herald caller cleric. Get your standard action or long duration summons on. Use summons as your meat wall.

I'd strongly consider this dynamic with spell selection

summons/utility
buffs/status removal

and the third could either be
Debuffs/save or suck

or

Blaster caster

If 3/4 casters are a thing i suggest

Inquisitor
Hunter
Dwarven Scholar Bard

All the teamwork feats, all the ways to cheat everyone having to take the same ones plus Shared training

[gnoams]

A party of casters comes across a bunch of golems... the golems all fall into pits and the casters stroll on past whistling to themselves.

Seriously I can't tell you how many times I've seen this, golems are a joke to spellcasters.

[Mysterious Stranger]

A friend of mine told me a way that all wizard party he was playing in dealt with golems. They simple summoned up a crap load of Lantern Archons. Their light ray only does 1d6 damage but it is a range touch attack that overcomes all damage reduction. The golem was ordered to guard a particular place so every caster used summon monster to summon up multiple Lantern Archons.

[halig feax]

A lot of really good ideas. This is what I love about magic in Pathfinder, and why I'm so keen on a full caster party. There is always a way around a problem if you can turn creativity into versatility.

Not entirely sure of party dynamic yet, but it seems to be shaking up to:

• Witch (time patron; human/tiefling/or samsaran) ; Might switch up the class for something like an Occultist, or perhaps a Shaman (as suggested by PCScipio).
• Oracle (Life domain; kitsune)
• Undecided, maybe a sorcerer (unknown bloodline; unknown race)

[Ryan Freire]

Heavens shaman

Heavens oracle

Cleric of densa

[Scavion]

Druid is probably the most versatile full caster in play. Animal companion gives you an extra body to soak hits. You could be a Nature Fang and frontline for the group too.

[Mysterious Stranger]

I would be cautious about spontaneous casters in this party. You are a small party and all of you are planning on playing full casters. This means you are going to rely mostly on spells and having access to a lot of different spells is going to be crucial. Playing off a limited spell list is going to make that very difficult.

The witch is a prepared caster so that is fine. The oracle of life might be a problem because it has no offensive spell from its mystery, and will need to use some of its normal spell for condition removal. This is going to mean it will not be contributing as much as it should to combat. Instead of a sorcerer consider going arcanist instead. That way you still have the ability to swap out your spells, and you also get access to exploits.

[halig feax]

Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Instead of a sorcerer consider going arcanist instead. That way you still have the ability to swap out your spells, and you also get access to exploits.

I totally agree on arcanist. Good chance it's the most versatile arcane spontaneous caster. The problem with that choice have nothing do with mechanics, though. Our group is finishing up a full campaign where I've been playing an arcanist all the way through. The other players and myself don't want to do repeats –as much as I've come to love that class.

Scavion wrote:

You could be a Nature Fang and frontline for the group too.

I like the idea of a druid quite a bit. That would be good for balancing casting attributes for skills as well: Witch–Int, Oracle–Cha, Druid–Wis. Animal companions are so great for soaking damage and blocking movement, so we'll have to consider this.

[rorek55]

idk if it has been said, but summon spells make this a rather mute point.

Just make sure to pack 1-2 summon monster spells for anyone that can and you will be fine.

I would suggest going for a sorcerer (human) and just taking advantage of the extra spell known per level trait. I do enjoy the arcanist, but it has noticeable shortcomings, and while their exploits are fun, only a few are truly "useful" (dimension slide being the best one of the bunch, with fast study/potent magic coming up a close 2nd)

Here is why-

with a witch and an oracle, you already have a good coverage, so its less important to "know a spell" for every occasion.

Steam-
Arcanists have the lowest amount of spell slots/day out of all the classes. They only get 4 max (sorcerers get 6), AND they get stuck with sorcerer spell progression. which leaves them really hurting for spells every odd level. You still have a weakness of a spellbook.

Focus-
The issue with wizards/arcanists is, they are so diverse, its hard to focus them. Not to mention that, unless you can spend gold, or loot spell books, you will never have a huge amount of spells to pick from. (you only get 2/level base) And while you CAN own all the spells, that doesn't mean you should. Don't get me wrong, its a boon. But one you will find yourself making far less use of on a regular basis than many would have you believe. Sorcerer's bloodline, usually, take the niche of spells you make use of and give them a nice boost.

as an arcanist, you will ALWAYS be limited to a very few number of spells prepared (a max of 4 prepared at best IIRC), and will have to expend arcana points to swap them out. Not a terrible price, unless you tend to swap often. Meanwhile, sorcerers can come out knowing 7-8 spells of each level up until around 7th level spells.

Either way, if you are looking at arcanist, I may suggest the exploiter wizard archetype. You get the best bits of an arcanist, but the spell progression of a wizard (along with access to their discoveries IIRC).

Just having played the arcanist, I find it enjoyable, and the arcane exploits are fun, but you will never have the same power of a wizard or sorcerer, nor the diversity of a wizard, or resources of a sorcerer.