I’m a relatively new GM and would like to convert some D&D 1E adventures (including some from the Basic Rules boxed set) to PF 1E. Is it as simple as exchanging the D&D monsters, treasure, etc. for those from PF, or is there more to it?
There's a bit more to it.
Direct substitution can get you quite a ways but there are a few pitfalls to be aware of.
1) Earlier editions were often a bit more free with the power level of creatures in a module. Don't be surprised if you see a creature than in P1 terms is 4+ CR above the APL thrown in there randomly. Always try to make sure that creatures you put in will be appropriately challenging for the PCs.
2) Power levels in 3.x vary more than in earlier editions. The CR system is at best a vague approximation of what to use. Know how well optimized your party is because what would be a harsh TPK for one group might be barely a speed bump for another. You may have to adjust creatures significantly to make appropriate challenges.
3) Monsters were created differently back in the day. E.g. a 100 HD fire elemental in BECMI or 1e might just have a lot of HP but not deal more damage or hit better than one with 8 HD, but in P1 it will be immensely tougher, to the point you probably have to start making house rules to accurately show off how tough it is.
4) Treasure can be borked. Since GP was the primary XP source in 1e and B/X-BECMI, you get a lot more treasure than in 3.x. A short 1st level adventure can easily net PCs a couple hundred gp and some nifty magic items each. The most treasure I've seen in a module was "Sabre River" which gave a total of 5.5 million (or thereabouts).
When running BECMI modules I often just slash a 0 off the end of treasure found during the adventure. I haven't run any 1e modules but I would keep an eye on treasure in those too.The most important thing to do is know the system well and know your players and their characters well to determine what is an accurate challenge. Since you're somewhat new there will be some mistakes so just make a note of what worked and what didn't and don't be afraid to experiment.
Which modules are you thinking of?
That’s fantastic advice, thank you! I have 2 Expert level adventures: Isle of Dread and The Duchy of Ten. I also have a lot of 1E adventures that a friend gave me; I’ll have to get the list later today.
I recently heard of the Basic Fantasy RPG, which seems geared toward the old school D&D style. I have no idea how similar that system is to the old D&D system, but I’m thinking of looking into converting those adventures as well. They’re free, so why not?
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The relative levels of monsters compared to PCs can be very different. A decent 4th level fighter (or better, ranger) could take a hill giant fairly easily. Not so in PF.
1e and BECMI are also much simpler, so the combat goes a lot faster. And AoE spells like Fireball are vastly more effective in 1e, so you'd tend to have a 5th level party of 8 PCs facing something like a dozen ogres in one go. And the Against The Giants series has those sort of numbers of giants in multiple rooms at 9th level. Try that in PF and the result will be a TPK after about 6 hours.
The relative levels of monsters compared to PCs can be very different. A decent 4th level fighter (or better, ranger) could take a hill giant fairly easily. Not so in PF.
1e and BECMI are also much simpler, so the combat goes a lot faster. And AoE spells like Fireball are vastly more effective in 1e, so you'd tend to have a 5th level party of 8 PCs facing something like a dozen ogres in one go. And the Against The Giants series has those sort of numbers of giants in multiple rooms at 9th level. Try that in PF and the result will be a TPK after about 6 hours.
Thanks Mudfoot. I guess that speaks to Bjorn's points above about CR's. I can see how 12 giants per encounter could result in a bloodbath, so I suppose I'd have to figure out the power level and CR and adjust accordingly.
Here is the list of 1E adventures I have. Took a little longer than I thought it would to compile it. I haven't looked at any of them in depth yet.
Slave Pits of the Undercity
Scourge of the Slavelords
Secret of the Slaver's Stockade
Assault on the Aerie of the Slave Lords
In the Dungeons of the Slave Lords
The Hidden Shrine of Tomoachan
The Ghost Tower of Inverness
The Lost Island of Castanamir
To Find A King
The Bane of Llywelyn
Descent into the Depths of the Earth
Shrine of the Kuo-Toa
Vault of the Drow
The Land Beyond the Magic Mirror
Steading of the Hill Giant Chief
Against the Giants
The Glacial Rift of the Frost Giant Jarl
Hall of the Fire Giant King
Queen of the Spiders
Bloodstone Pass
The Mines Of Bloodstone
The Bloodstone Wars
The Throne of Bloodstone
Dwellers of the Forbidden City
Needle
Swords of the Iron Legion
Tomb of the Lizard King
Pharaoh
Desert Of Desolation
Oasis of the White Palm
Lost Tomb of Martek
Baltron's Beacon
Ravager of Time
Day Of Al' Akbar
The Secret Of Bone Hill
The Assassin's Knot
Deep Dwarven Delve
Against the Cult of the Reptile God
The Forest Oracle
Destiny Of Kings
Treasure Hunt
Under Illefarn
Queen of the Demonweb Pits
To the Aid of Falx
The Investigation of Hydell
Egg of The Phoenix
Doc's Island
Tomb of Horrors
Realms of Horror
White Plume Mountain
Expedition to the Barrier Peaks
The Lost Caverns of Tsjocanth
The Village of Hommlet
Temple Of Elemental Evil
Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh
Danger at Dunwater
Final Enemy
Beyond The Crystal Cave
The Sentinel
The Gauntlet
When a Star Falls
Eye of the Serpent
All that Glitters
Dark Clouds Gather
That is quite the gift. Many of those individually would command excellent prices if still in good condition. I have been collecting game material for over 30 years and do not have everything on your list yet.
There are some conversions for a few of those to D&D 3.5 on the ENWorld site. They are a good start to get you in the ballpark for PF.
Thanks for the tip on ENWorld. I’ll definitely check that out!
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The first 3.0 game I ever played was a direct translation of against the Giants.
So, nobody really knew the system that well and had built 8th level characters that were rebuilds of AD&D characters that had started the campaign years before.
2 frost giant sentries in the 'gatehouse' almost killed us all. We beat them and retreated into the wasteland to lick our wounds.
We went back the next day and tried again. 2 Replacement sentries in the same room resulted in the exact same 'butt-kicked-retreat-to hide' experience.
We hit the same room 4 times and leveled up twice before we made it into the next room on the map.
That is an epic story!
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Remember to check (for) the traps in the modules. Very often they either are save or die or just die (especially in Tomb of Horrors).
I ran Lost caverns of Tsojcanth ages ago converted to 3E. Only two deaths, one to a cursed item and another to a behir. They were about the same level as the module was written for.
Remember to check (for) the traps in the modules. Very often they either are save or die or just die (especially in Tomb of Horrors).
I ran Lost caverns of Tsojcanth ages ago converted to 3E. Only two deaths, one to a cursed item and another to a behir. They were about the same level as the module was written for.
That’s good to know, thanks!
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certain monsters are WAY tougher. Dragons and Giants stand out, but basically anything that was intended to be a big bruiser is a lot meaner converted directly to pathfinder than you'd expect.
I had a friend try to convert against the giants right when 3.0 came out and the damage output of those first few hill giant encounters was insane comparatively.
certain monsters are WAY tougher. Dragons and Giants stand out, but basically anything that was intended to be a big bruiser is a lot meaner converted directly to pathfinder than you'd expect.
I had a friend try to convert against the giants right when 3.0 came out and the damage output of those first few hill giant encounters was insane comparatively.
Did your friend change the number of hill giants from what it was in 1E to what it should be by the equivalent 3.0 CR? I guess that’s what I’m starting to question: can the basics of the encounters be maintained (for example, keeping the same monsters but modifying how many there are), but altered to fit PF’s CR rules? I’ve never converted anything from one system to another, so maybe that’s a silly question. But I think that’s how I would naturally approach it at first.
Nope, it was a straight port. We never got past the front door.
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I mean CR ratings aside, there's a room with two cloud giants, three stone giants 24 hill giants and a dozen ogres in that module. It was not designed for monsters to get + con
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"When a Star Falls" is a great module.
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I wonder how the conversion of Throne of Bloodstone would go? The welcoming party to Orcus's layer consisted of one type V demon and 100 type III demons if I remember correctly. And you had to kill Tiamat to to win in the end.
I mean CR ratings aside, there's a room with two cloud giants, three stone giants 24 hill giants and a dozen ogres in that module. It was not designed for monsters to get + con
I glanced through the hill giant steading and those encounters are insane!
I wonder how the conversion of Throne of Bloodstone would go? The welcoming party to Orcus's layer consisted of one type V demon and 100 type III demons if I remember correctly. And you had to kill Tiamat to to win in the end.
Pfff, doesn’t sound too hard! (j/k)
To be honest, it was a pretty brutal module back in the day. I never ran it, but that was partly because I could never see how to do so without slaughtering a party - generally by raising an alert and bringing the entire fort down on top of you at once.
I was just thinking about that this morning. With the crazy number of monsters in that place, how would the ones in an adjacent area NOT hear the sounds of battle and come join in the fight?
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I was just thinking about that this morning. With the crazy number of monsters in that place, how would the ones in an adjacent area NOT hear the sounds of battle and come join in the fight?
I think the idea was that ogres and giants are rowdy like that all the time, so a lot of fighting and yelling is just business as usual. The same sort of justification applied to most other humanoids from kobolds up.
I was just thinking about that this morning. With the crazy number of monsters in that place, how would the ones in an adjacent area NOT hear the sounds of battle and come join in the fight?I think the idea was that ogres and giants are rowdy like that all the time, so a lot of fighting and yelling is just business as usual. The same sort of justification applied to most other humanoids from kobolds up.
Ah, that's a very good point. Though sooner or later I would have to imagine one of them would have enough wits to sound an alarm.
I’ll check it out, thank you!Against the Cult of the Reptile GodConverting N1 Against the Cult of the Reptile GodOops. That wasn't even the thread of which I was thinking. I was actually thinking of this one:
Old People! (Converting old AD&D material to Pathfinder)
Thanks for the correction, I’ll look that one up too!