/ Crafting Scrolls?

[Theconiel]

The description of the feat Magical Crafting says that only items of second level or lower can be Crafted. But the only scrolls that fit that category are scrolls of first level spells. What am I missing?

[Draco18s]

Quote:

you gain formulas for four common magic items of 2nd level or lower.

You can craft anything you have the formula for, while the feat only gives you four 2nd level or lower items, you can get formulas in other ways.

[Theconiel]

Draco18s wrote:

Quote:

you gain formulas for four common magic items of 2nd level or lower.

You can craft anything you have the formula for, while the feat only gives you four 2nd level or lower items, you can get formulas in other ways.

Ah. Specifically, my character is a draconic sorcerer, with the Arcane Evolution feat, so he has a spellbook that contains his entire spell repertoire, plus one more. So I could create a formula for a scroll from the spellbook. Or does the spellbook itself double as a formula book?

[Draco18s]

There was a previous thread on what constitutes the "formula" for a spell scroll.

Its either:
(A) every spell (and heightened variation) is its own formula
(B) every spell level is a formula (so ten total)
(C) a scroll is a scroll, you need one formula and have the spell in your repitoir.

The rules are not very clear (I lean towards C, personally, but given that you can buy "all common formulas" for a silver makes it irrelevant).

[Mathmuse]

Magical Crafting Feat 2
General Skill
Source Core Rulebook pg. 263
Prerequisites expert in Crafting
You can Craft magic items, though some have other requirements, as listed in Chapter 11. When you select this feat, you gain formulas for four common magic items of 2nd level or lower.

(Copied from Archives of Nethys, Magical Crafting.)

No, it allows crafting any level magic item so long as the individual requirements are met. It gives 4 free formulas for crafting that are 2nd level or lower.

A crafter needs a formula to create any item. All common mundane (0th level) formulas are found in the Basic Crafter's Book. 1st-level formulas cost 1 gp, 2nd-level formulas cost 2 gp, 3rd-level formulas cost 3 gp, 4th-level formulas cost 5 gp, 5th-level formulas cost 8 gp, and the rest of the prices are in TABLE 6–13: FORMULAS.

The formula for any scroll of a 1st-level spell is a 1st-level formula (However, as Draco18s mentioned, some people think each separate spell has its own formula for its scroll and others think that every scroll of any level has a single formula). That is one formula, so select 3 more. Table 11–1: TREASURE BY LEVEL lists these other common 2nd-level permanent magic items:
Wondrous figurine, onyx dog
+1 weapon potency rune
+1 handwraps of mighty blows
Hand of the mage
Hat of disguise

[Theconiel]

Draco18s wrote:

There was a previous thread on what constitutes the "formula" for a spell scroll.

Its either:
(A) every spell (and heightened variation) is its own formula
(B) every spell level is a formula (so ten total)
(C) a scroll is a scroll, you need one formula and have the spell in your repitoir.

The rules are not very clear (I lean towards C, personally, but given that you can buy "all common formulas" for a silver makes it irrelevant).

When I get the Magical Crafting feat, I'll ask the GM.

[breithauptclan]

Mathmuse wrote:

The formula for any scroll of a 1st-level spell is a 1st-level formula (However, as Draco18s mentioned, some people think each separate spell has its own formula for its scroll and others think that every scroll of any level has a single formula).

Huh. Color me surprised. I hadn't actually looked into crafting scrolls in this edition much, so I was thinking that each scroll would have its own formula. But yeah, it certainly doesn't look like that is the case. Instead it is that 'blank scroll' is an item that can be crafted and filled with a spell during the creation process.

Now, whether each level of blank scroll is its own formula or if they all use the same formula, I can't tell. It doesn't make all that much difference though. Buying all of the levels individually wouldn't be that much cost.

[Bast L.]

Draco18s wrote:

There was a previous thread on what constitutes the "formula" for a spell scroll.

Its either:
(A) every spell (and heightened variation) is its own formula
(B) every spell level is a formula (so ten total)
(C) a scroll is a scroll, you need one formula and have the spell in your repitoir.

The rules are not very clear (I lean towards C, personally, but given that you can buy "all common formulas" for a silver makes it irrelevant).

AoN doesn't have all the details on that. From the book, "Basic Crafter’s Book: This book contains the formulas (page 293) for Crafting the common items in this chapter."

While formula book reads as: "A formula book holds the formulas necessary to make items other than the common equipment from this chapter"

But for other formulas, I'm pretty sure you have to pay the price, or learn by disassembling them (or whatever the process).

I lean towards B. A is too harsh, C has no clear pricing for the formula.

I would probably go B for wands as well, unless they were special effect wands.

[The Gleeful Grognard]

Scrolls are one formula per scroll level almost 100% certain on this.

Having on formula for all magical scrolls doesn't work as there is no pricing in the book to support this and it messes with consumable levels as well and leads to "well a scroll of wish is a level 0 consumable right?" which is obviously not the case.

The reason I lean towards one scroll per level is because of the screen entry in the craft/treasure section being quite generic. Same with wands.

[Theconiel]

The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

Scrolls are one formula per scroll level almost 100% certain on this.

Having on formula for all magical scrolls doesn't work as there is no pricing in the book to support this and it messes with consumable levels as well and leads to "well a scroll of wish is a level 0 consumable right?" which is obviously not the case.

The reason I lean towards one scroll per level is because of the screen entry in the craft/treasure section being quite generic. Same with wands.

Makes sense to me.

[breithauptclan]

The Gleeful Grognard wrote:

Scrolls are one formula per scroll level almost 100% certain on this.

Having on formula for all magical scrolls doesn't work as there is no pricing in the book to support this and it messes with consumable levels as well and leads to "well a scroll of wish is a level 0 consumable right?" which is obviously not the case.

The reason I lean towards one scroll per level is because of the screen entry in the craft/treasure section being quite generic. Same with wands.

Well, for the camp of 'one formula for all levels of scroll': I would think that even if the formula is a level 1 formula, you would still have to make the scroll item of the proper item level for the spell that it is being crafted for. No cheesing for a level 1 item cost holding a 7th level spell.

[Theconiel]

Draco18s wrote:

There was a previous thread on what constitutes the "formula" for a spell scroll.

Its either:
(A) every spell (and heightened variation) is its own formula
(B) every spell level is a formula (so ten total)
(C) a scroll is a scroll, you need one formula and have the spell in your repitoir.

My GM just ruled "B". This choice seems consistent with the rule that different versions of other items (e.g. Bag of Holding, Type I, Bag of Holding, Type II) have different formulas.

[Gary Bush]

Sorry for the necro but felt like it would be good to give updated information.

3rd errata of the Core Rule Book wrote:

Pages 565, 597: You only need to learn a single 1st level formula to Craft any scroll or any magic wand (though specialty wands each require their own formulas as normal). Add "You only need to learn one 1st-level formula to Craft a magic wand." and parallel text for scrolls.

So only need to learn on formula to at 1st level to craft any scroll or magic wand.

[Ed Reppert]

One formula to make blank scrolls, another formula to make "blank" wands (wands that don't have a spell added yet). So making these is a two part process: part I, make the blank item, part II, add the spell.

Question: is a blank scroll or wand a mundane item or a magical one?

[Baarogue]

Casting the spell is part of the process of making either item, as detailed in their entries in the CR. There are no blanks

[Ed Reppert]

Baarogue wrote:

Casting the spell is part of the process of making either item, as detailed in their entries in the CR. There are no blanks

This makes no sense.

When you create a wand, you carve (or whatever) a stick. Then you cast a spell into it. Now you have a wand. When you create a scroll, you take a piece of parchment (for example) and you cast a spell into it. Now you have a scroll from which you can read and cast that spell. What are these physical objects before the spell is added to them if not "blanks"?

[Baarogue]

They are unfinished magic items, not a named product in PF2 mechanics

[Ed Reppert]

I never claimed they were "named product{s} in PF2 mechanics".

I suppose this is another example of Paizo hand-waving away anything not directly related to encounters.

[Baarogue]

Maybe. I think they just wanted crafting rules to be self-contained per item instead of potentially having players looking for blank scrolls, wands, etc. on shelves at the local Magi-Mart to cast their own spells into ^_^

[Perpdepog]

Baarogue wrote:

Maybe. I think they just wanted crafting rules to be self-contained per item instead of potentially having players looking for blank scrolls, wands, etc. on shelves at the local Magi-Mart to cast their own spells into ^_^

That being said, a blank scroll or wand would be a neat bit of treasure to throw a caster's way. You still need to "finish" the full item, but it's significantly less expensive and lets the player have a wand or scroll of a spell they already like while also giving them a shorter, cheaper crafting session.

[Errenor]

Perpdepog wrote:

Baarogue wrote:

Maybe. I think they just wanted crafting rules to be self-contained per item instead of potentially having players looking for blank scrolls, wands, etc. on shelves at the local Magi-Mart to cast their own spells into ^_^

That being said, a blank scroll or wand would be a neat bit of treasure to throw a caster's way. You still need to "finish" the full item, but it's significantly less expensive and lets the player have a wand or scroll of a spell they already like while also giving them a shorter, cheaper crafting session.

If you don't mean that as being able to finish an item without having Craft and Magical Crafting, then I don't see any problem in giving treasure in the form of 'almost complete scroll of level X and additional materials which are worth full the cost and can be completed almost instantly by casting appropriate spell in it (if the caster has Magical Crafting)'.

[Ed Reppert]

Somewhere I read that you need a writing kit to craft a scroll. That also implies, it seems to me, something to write *on*. Like parchment or paper. Which raises the question "where in Golarion is paper made?" Also "why no paper mills in Otari?" :-)

[glass]

Ed Reppert wrote:

Somewhere I read that you need a writing kit to craft a scroll. That also implies, it seems to me, something to write *on*. Like parchment or paper. Which raises the question "where in Golarion is paper made?" Also "why no paper mills in Otari?" :-)

Not sure if it is mentioned in PF2, but in PF1 at least scrolls were written on vellum not paper.

[Wheldrake]

PF2 simply abstracts all details about raw materials. The gold cost for crafting a scroll (or a set of 4 scrolls, as you would usually do it, for consumables) includes whatever exotic inks, paper, vellum, papyrus, treebark or stone tablets you might need to craft those scrolls.

FWIW, nothing says that you "cast a spell into a scroll". Instead, you must cast the spell during the casting process and the magic is "trapped" inside the scroll. You still need to take the full time to create a scroll, presumably preparing the writing surface, preparing the special inks, inscribing the actual writing and so on.

You can style it however you like.

It's kind of funny that this conversation was tacked onto an earlier one that took place prior to the errata that made it clear you only need a single formula for scrolls, regardless of the level of spell written on it.

[Ed Reppert]

PF2 seems to talk about paper, but only in that it's available to write on. How and where it's made is, like many things, glossed over. Parchment is not, to the best of my recollection, mentioned.

We could have a whole long discussion about paper vs. parchment (vellum is basically a better grade of parchment) and where the two would fit in a world like Golarion. :-)