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Indeed unarmed mecha attacks need some clarification. I would sugest having some reinforced platings in places where the mech is goint to do those unarmed strikes similar to hammerfirst, if the mech does not have the proper gear colision rules could be a great use and both the target and the attacker take damage.
I agree, although I see a problem: a mech's unarmed strike would have the "low" damage progression. While it might be logical, it's... also the same progression as 90% of the melee weapons built for mechs.
You could literally be as efficient unarmed as you can bewith a sword.
The mech rules would need a "Very Low" damage progression for unarmed strikes, but that new progression could work for smaller mech weaponslike daggers and spikes.
Solution, increase the damage of Hammerfist to medium. Mech's slam attacks should be low damage.
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Or.. since Mechs are vehicles, include the vehicle collision rules.
When piloting a vehicle, you can attempt a Piloting check (DC = the enemy vehicle’s KAC) as a standard action to smash into another vehicle you’re engaged with. If you’re successful, your vehicle deals its collision damage to the enemy vehicle, and takes half that much damage itself. A vehicle’s collision damage is listed in the Attack (Collision) entry of its statistics.
A mech is just treated as a vehicle for the purpose of resolving effects, so I don't think they're meant to use vehicle collision rules.
It's probably for the better, anyway. I'd find it annoying if a GM kept ramming with enemy mech NPCs while still attacking as normal, since no roll is required and given the amount of actions they may have.
A mech is just treated as a vehicle for the purpose of resolving effects, so I don't think they're meant to use vehicle collision rules.
It's probably for the better, anyway. I'd find it annoying if a GM kept ramming with enemy mech NPCs while still attacking as normal, since no roll is required and given the amount of actions they may have.
I dont belive that ramming is a clever idead but could work if your mech is out off ammo and trying to use last resort kind of maneuvers.
A mech could use hammerfirst but if the region is unprotected i think is reasonable that the mech takes half damages as mentioned in collision rules.
A mech is just treated as a vehicle for the purpose of resolving effects, so I don't think they're meant to use vehicle collision rules.
It's probably for the better, anyway. I'd find it annoying if a GM kept ramming with enemy mech NPCs while still attacking as normal, since no roll is required and given the amount of actions they may have.
I dont belive that ramming is a clever idead but could work if your mech is out off ammo and trying to use last resort kind of maneuvers.
A mech could use hammerfirst but if the region is unprotected i think is reasonable that the mech takes half damages as mentioned in collision rules.
As a PC ramming is a bad idea. As a GM, ramming and attacking multiple times isn't. That would quickly become annoying.
As a PC ramming is a bad idea. As a GM, ramming and attacking multiple times isn't. That would quickly become annoying.A mech is just treated as a vehicle for the purpose of resolving effects, so I don't think they're meant to use vehicle collision rules.
It's probably for the better, anyway. I'd find it annoying if a GM kept ramming with enemy mech NPCs while still attacking as normal, since no roll is required and given the amount of actions they may have.
I dont belive that ramming is a clever idead but could work if your mech is out off ammo and trying to use last resort kind of maneuvers.
A mech could use hammerfirst but if the region is unprotected i think is reasonable that the mech takes half damages as mentioned in collision rules.
Oh i did not understood as ramming and multiple attacks. I was thinking about unarmed attacks without proper gear dealing damage to both, similar to vehicles collision rules.
Ramming and multi attacks... Well thats a no. But Ramming as a full action kind of maneuver could be ok
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You are assuming that your sources and expectations for them are what the devs had in mind. Using 'but it doesn't work that way in these universes' is a flawed argument. Among other things, in the rules that we have, Mechs are not space-worthy. Which creates a definite difference from Gundam. Drawing inspiration from is a far different thing from slavishly following the source material. You may need to make some house rules to get the feeling that you want.
In PF/SF, generally unarmed attacks are very ineffective, unless you have supplemental things that boost them to an effective level. So the assumption that unarmed mech attacks must be something you can do is flawed.
On top of which, there are existing rules for what happens when a vehicle that is not designed and reinforced for doing so collides with another object. Like it or not, Mechs are properly classified as vehicles, and exceptions would need to be called out specifically. SOM gives a piece of equipment that provides an exception to the collision rules if the attack is successful. If it isn't, collision rules apply.
You are assuming that your sources and expectations for them are what the devs had in mind. Using 'but it doesn't work that way in these universes' is a flawed argument. Among other things, in the rules that we have, Mechs are not space-worthy. Which creates a definite difference from Gundam. Drawing inspiration from is a far different thing from slavishly following the source material. You may need to make some house rules to get the feeling that you want.
In PF/SF, generally unarmed attacks are very ineffective, unless you have supplemental things that boost them to an effective level. So the assumption that unarmed mech attacks must be something you can do is flawed.
On top of which, there are existing rules for what happens when a vehicle that is not designed and reinforced for doing so collides with another object. Like it or not, Mechs are properly classified as vehicles, and exceptions would need to be called out specifically. SOM gives a piece of equipment that provides an exception to the collision rules if the attack is successful. If it isn't, collision rules apply.
It's not really so much that Mechs aren't "space-worthy," they could easily have orbital boosters with vacuum shields available in the full product, like they have on a few existing vehicles. If you're referring to them in participating in space combat, the game indeed does not work that way from the PCs perspective. It's creates a list of issues, like what are their weapons space equivalent, what is the HP/SP conversion, which frames properly match up with a mech's or do they make an entirely new list? As much as I would love to have this, it's pretty clear they've never been interested in doing this.
I imagine that they expect the mech to have a melee attack without needing to invest in one. While unarmed attacks are generally ineffective, it's very, very rare for a huge-colossal encounter to have no form melee ability.
I'm also pretty sure mechs aren't actually vehicles, just treated as one for resolving effects. Such as certain spells cast on them or if a vehicle rams into a mech. They could have easily just said that mechs are vehicles instead of what they wrote.
I'm going to describe the technosling as shotgun, makes a better visual personally.
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Interesting enough, I was reading d20 Future and Dungeon Magazine #095 (Mecha Crusade), and those two products that dealt with mecha didn't have unarmed strikes for Mechs.
There was a feat, Mecha Crush, that allowed mechs to collide against targets. Damage was determined by the size of the mech, it was an area attack, and there was Reflex save to avoid the damage. If the save is a failure, the creatures were pinned and suffer the following damage:
Large - 2d6, Huge - 2d8, Gargantuan - 4d6, Colossal - 4d8.
Mechs in that system had hand slots (which is essentially arm slots in this playtest), and had options for things like melee attacks (similar to hammerfist). But there was no standard melee slam options, like a unarmed strike, in d20 Future either.
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In DragonMech, the Mechs in that system, have unarmed attacks based on size of the mech and the ability to trample opponents. Both are considered a special attack.
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I couldn't quote you the rules to save my life, but I know Battletech mechs have inbuilt melee strikes. IIRC, kicks if you have legs and punches if you have arms with hands.
There's also DFA (Death From Above) if you have jump jets. You launch into the air and land on an enemy for massive damage. I mean, you probably break your own legs, too, but it's worth the price if you can flatten a tough enemy without having to plink away at their armor with guns and missiles.
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You can mimic DFA with the falling object rules and a mech with thrusters.
Power Jump (2 PP) The mech can activate the thrusters as part of a move action, granting it a fly speed of 60 feet (average maneuverability) with a maximum height of 30 feet. The mech must either land at the end of this movement, expend additional PP to perform additional power jumps before the end of its turn, or fall.
Falling Objects Dropping an object on a creature requires a ranged attack against its KAC. Such attacks generally have a range increment of 20 feet. If an object falls on a character (instead of being thrown), that character can attempt a DC 15 Reflex save to take half damage if he is aware of the object. Note that a falling object takes the same amount of damage as it deals.
A huge object deals 6d6, gargantuan deals 8d6, and colossal deals 10d6.
In BESM d20 Mecha, there are three types of mecha. Battlesuits (i.e, power armor), Giant Robot (biped mecha), and Vehicles (standard vehicles).
Giant Robots (biped mecha) begin with unarmed strikes. Their damage is based on the mecha's size.
The Flight Frame (Huge Powered Armor; 11th level) has an unarmed strike that deals 2d6 points of damage, which a Tier 2 High Damage, a Tier 3 Medium Damage and a Tier 4 Low Damage.
The Warmaster's Harness (Gargantuan Powered Armor; 19th level) has an unarmed strike that deals 5d10 points of damage, which a Tier 10 High Damage.
Maybe they could start from there...
In CthulhuTech, Mechs do not start with a unarmed strike option. They had to purchase a unarmed attack option (from fist, horn, claws, bite, pincers, tail, tentacles, and even tongue).