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As was officially announced in the blog post Thursday, starting in the next season of Org Play, Year 4, Starfinder Society will no longer support Boons, and will move to an AcP system. Season 3 lays groundwork for that, by not granting Boons anymore. All of the 3-xx scenarios so far have an adventure recap on the Chronicle sheet, with no Boons.
I'm not sure what to make of it. Does this mean that basically all season long, all we'll get on chronicle sheets are credits, fame, rep, and gear? Of course I (and my characters) like those things, but the most interesting part of the chronicles is always the Boons. Unique or esoteric items, favours, potential influence (good or bad,) and, well, small-b boons from the NPCs and galaxy at large. I also always find it really neat when Boons come back around again - from the big fan-favourites like being on Zo!'s good side, to the smaller stuff like seeing a kalo's debt repaid, or your actions garnering a small amount of attention from a Deity like Yaraesa. I would hate to see those "living campaign" connectivity elements go away; but then again maybe the adventure recaps fulfill that purpose now?
Arguably, 3-00's chronicle sheet has:
I understand that the 2E Pathfinder Society has already got a year of "just AcP, no Boons" under their belt - how does that work? I've not really done any 2E Org Play, so can folks with some experience there chime in? Are there callbacks to previous chronicles still? (Or, do I just need to wait and see what the Season 3 Guide says when it comes out?)
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Count me in as someone who will miss boons as well, and wishes that this decision was reconsidered.
I do recognize several dilemmas with boons as is, though:
• Chronicle fishing to augment a character's abilities (the only way to truly max your Piloting is with boons from one of two Scenarios, for example)
• Narrowness of focus (I have a 12th and 10th Level character with Ally and Social Boons that literally never came up)
• Complaints of playing a scenario with "The wrong character", and the regret that comes from that.
• Usefulness of Boons to characters with an unrelated focus (my Mystic will never use a grenade, so saving 20% helps her little)
• Nobody ever slots an Ally Boon unless it's a Hireling or a Yeti, and then feels upset when a scenario forces them to slot something different.
• Developing Boons eats up time from developing adventures.
And, when I converted most of my PCs to digital character sheets due to remote play I realized the majority of my Boons were unused.
All that said, Boons can be charming, too. My 10th Level Icon still slots Budding Media Celebrity even though the extra 10 credits it earns her per scenario are useless.
I like PFS2's Bequeathal boon, that allows you to transfer unused Boons between characters. That solves a couple of those issues. But it's probably not feasible for SFS because it's based on Rarity.
TL;DR: It sucks, but I understand why. Would favor a reduction in Boons over total elimination.
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Boons are the flavor and lifeblood that gives Organized Play personality and diversity.
In a world where we are fighting for greater diversity, AcP seems more like a bland cop-out than creative growth, but that may just be my inner Muse decrying the loss of something treasured for something mass-produced.
If Boons all go away or to a 'Pay to Play' (with your time/ACP) model, that might very well kill Organized Play involvement for me, as much as I'd like to say otherwise.
I get it.
Costs have to be cut.
Writing neat flavorful Boons takes time, creativity, and involvement that the OrgTeam desperately can use for other things.
I just hope that it doesn't cost OrgPlay it's 'gaming soul'.
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I also really don't like that its apparently "you're getting this" rather than "what do ya'll think about..." its kind of out of the blue.
I really like having certain character things tied to certain experiences...
"why does your ysoki look like a bat?"
" ... I probably shouldn't have hugged that artifact..."
Not.. the player had a boatload of credit and went online and bought the thing.
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I am one of those who like boons but - like Nefreet - I acknowledge issues with them both in general and with the utility of certain specific boons.
One stated goal of the Starfinder Boon system was to reduce the amount of time PFS1 players spent looking for a vaguely remembered boon. "Hang on, I think I had a boon on a chronicle 4 levels ago that might be really handy here. No, was it 6 levels? Give me a few more minutes to check the rest of my chronicles. (Time Passes). Must have been a different character." By only having 6 slots, you would instantly know which boons were available. But unfortunately this didn't really work on a couple of levels.
1) A lot of Slotless boons were on chronicles, particularly early on in Season 1, which added more to search through.
2) Players are annoyed when they have a boon that would be situationally perfect but happened to have chosen to slot something else.
I want my 8th-level solarion to be good at computers. I have an Int of 14, the roboticist theme, skill focus (computers), and 8 ranks in computers for a total bonus of +16. The other 8th-level solarion just slotted a Master Hireling and has a bonus of. . .+16. The technomancer is still beating both of us, but I'd be crazy to build this solarion when I can have a +16 on Computers, Engineering, AND Physical Science for 9 Fame.
Venture-Agent, Finland—Tampere
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The way I heard it, new thing is actually gonna be "when scenario is reported, it unlocks 0 acp boon on the website". So boons still exist, they are just gotten through website or something and maybe work differently?where was this mentioned?
Either in one of paizocon/gencon streams or in gencon bar discord text channel. I know I've heard it mentioned in paizocon and someone else in discord mentioned hearing it in gencon bar too.
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Honestly, I would be okay with a severe reduction in boons. It's only a very rare occurrence that a sheet has a boon that is actually worth using. Race boons are like gold, starship boons sometimes come up, and occasionally you get something universally handy like Dream Whispers or situationally solid like the one for giving a bonus to social rolls in the Veskarium or Contractor's Respect.
But... most of the boons on most of the sheets are something to the order of, "this might come into play later, so look forward to not putting something more useful in your boon slot when that comes around."
We really don't need the latter boons. Just have the adventure call out the chronicle sheet (as some already do). We also don't need the ones that give a Personal boon that has minimal effects (a substantial percentage of Society characters already have their Personal boon slot used for a race), or small discounts on a very narrow range of items.
So yeah, definitely look at boons and don't just make boons to put on the sheet, but I'm not sure that specific boons for scenarios should go away entirely.
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I'm curious to see what Season 3 will look like, being an interstitial year. So far none of the chronicles are granting new Boons - we've only seen a handful of Season 3 so far, so it's not exactly conclusive, but seems a safe call. But, players can still slot Boons. I wonder if we'll see specific call-outs to previous Boons that are still unresolved threads - things like the Boons from 2-04 or 2-15, for instance.
Perhaps, going forwards, adventures will just elide over the whole Boon part, and just reference chronicle sheets explicitly - "if any PC has a chronicle sheet from scenario X-YZ, then Tom the Betrayer ambushes them!" rather than "if any PC slots the Unfinished Business with Tom Boon, then..."
Starfinder Society Developer
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As a heads up, yes the intent is for us to create 0 ACP boons that tie-in with scenario accomplishments. These could be access to unique species, special training, or just random events that may be the result of what you've accomplished in a scenario.
So yes, the plan is to get some content out in the form of ACP boons tied in with scenarios. However, the repeated "come up with some boon just to make sure this scenario has A boon" is something that isn't coming back. Similarly, the "X/Y/Z Will Remember That" boons are just getting rolled into the Chronicle Sheet tracking for options and just based on having credit for a specific scenario.
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As a heads up, yes the intent is for us to create 0 ACP boons that tie-in with scenario accomplishments. These could be access to unique species, special training, or just random events that may be the result of what you've accomplished in a scenario.
So yes, the plan is to get some content out in the form of ACP boons tied in with scenarios. However, the repeated "come up with some boon just to make sure this scenario has A boon" is something that isn't coming back. Similarly, the "X/Y/Z Will Remember That" boons are just getting rolled into the Chronicle Sheet tracking for options and just based on having credit for a specific scenario.
squeee..
Venture-Agent, Georgia—Atlanta
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@thursty How do you plan on handling player choice? Will you only take into account what the entire society as a whole does (via the tracking sheet), or is there some way for player choices to have some ramifications (Player X offended the hobgoblins, but the society as a whole did not, so... Player X still has a penalty).
There are not that many boons with choices like that, but... choices can define your character, and I don't know if the ACP boons can reflect the choices players make (without a lot of development).
Another question... Won't online boons cause more paper waste, with people having to print out the boons themselves? Online games and players won't really be effected, but offline players... won't have the same access to the boons that they did before.
I'm not complaining, I just want to make sure all of the ramifications have been thought about.
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If you opted to go left and found the canibal villiage where everyone always lies check here
If you opted to go right and found the peaceful villiage where everyone tells the truth check here.
Then you buy a boon with 2 effects? Or maybe get one free and have to pay for the other.
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Yeah they're not doing away with checkboxes and secondary success conditions.
Those will still be logged as normal when the game is reported.
And since GMs won't get their Boons until the game is reported, that incentivizes them not to wait years to report their games.
Provided the reporting GM doesn't get swamped under by the swampy tidal wave that is either bureaucracy or what we can quaintly refer to as 'Real Life', of course.
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Organized Play Manager
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@thursty How do you plan on handling player choice? Will you only take into account what the entire society as a whole does (via the tracking sheet), or is there some way for player choices to have some ramifications (Player X offended the hobgoblins, but the society as a whole did not, so... Player X still has a penalty).
There are not that many boons with choices like that, but... choices can define your character, and I don't know if the ACP boons can reflect the choices players make (without a lot of development).
Another question... Won't online boons cause more paper waste, with people having to print out the boons themselves? Online games and players won't really be effected, but offline players... won't have the same access to the boons that they did before.
I'm not complaining, I just want to make sure all of the ramifications have been thought about.
Going online actually saves trees. You save them as a pdf and can use a pdf version as verification to GMs. If you are the type to want a paper record, you can print them as well.
It is a minute group that don't have computer access at home (which is a very small group of people that don't have a smartphone/computer/tablet available) and cannot access computers in libraries/community centers. For them,they should work with their local GMs/VOs to assist in contacting Alex/I, who can arrange purchase and delivery to VOs to print and provide via paper. This would fall under providing accomodation to players.
We are 13 years into org play programs and tech has come leaps and bounds since we started in 2007. Not taking advantage of the technology is irresponsible, even if it means change and needing to find alternative processes for those that cannot utilize new systems/processes.
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Just so I have it straight in my head:
* We will still be receiving GM/Convention boons until July 21.
* SFS will move to the AcP system from July 21.
* 'Chronicle boons' will resume in Season 4 under AcP, but as 0 point buys based on the scenarios we played.
* There will be no Chronicle boons through Season 3 - essentially it will be the 'dead' season, providing neither a Chronicle boon nor AcP for future purchases.
Anything incorrect?
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* We will still be receiving GM/Convention boons until July 21.
* SFS will move to the AcP system from July 21.
Dumb question, but is this July 21 2020, or 2021? Where did that date come from?
* There will be no Chronicle boons through Season 3 - essentially it will be the 'dead' season, providing neither a Chronicle boon nor AcP for future purchases.
This is the point I'm most interested in - I'm hoping we might still see some Chronicle Boons this season, just in greatly reduced form. It would be a bit of a mental adjustment, but wouldn't be so bad to only get 2 - 3 Chronicle Boons across ~24 scenarios (particularly if the ones we got were high-impact, like new species.)
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The bigger concern would be players determining that S3 onwards 'wasn't worth their time' because of a significant drawdown on the neat chronicles in S3.
For a campaign that's in some areas still trying to get footing, this is not a wise move, especially when there are other play options that are *not* Organized Play related.
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The bigger concern would be players determining that S3 onwards 'wasn't worth their time' because of a significant drawdown on the neat chronicles in S3.
Already happening. Just had one of our pretty active GMs quit SFS.
I'm considering packing it in too, I'm just over the continuously added hurdles and the arbitrary changes.
I was annoyed by the Rubric that is going to cost me thousands of dollars and significant travel just to get my qualifying reviews, I was annoyed by the drop in my tablecount when it was arbitrarily decided to drop the Free RPG games down to 1 credit and apply that backwards (I'm very Type A and goal-focused, I don't appreciate the backward step), I was annoyed by the decision to call 1:00 'not a special' for count towards 10 specials (We supported the campaign before there was a campaign, and that was one of the tools of selling it to the community), and now I am looking at the AcP system and am pretty unimpressed with the whole idea of a 'dead season'.
I'm seeing barriers and the like appearing, this is not supporting me and my goals of championing a campaign on the highway to 5 Nova. It's just presenting me unreasonable and expensive challenges at a time when our workload is increasing.
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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Count me as another voice quite a bit hesitant about this change.
I am not inherently opposed to having Starfinder Society incorporated into ACP. However, 2nd edition has ACP and yet still has boons on top of that. They are typically extremely minor relative to Starfinder's*, but at least they are something, and a flavorful incorporation of what you might have learned on your adventures.
Mostly however I no longer have confidence in Paizo taking away boons up front in exchange for a 'trust us' equivalent benefit to come later. ACP was first announced as an integral lynchpin of PFS2 from its inception, and yet that didn't get properly implemented until the 51st week of the campaign. From the same blog post officially announcing this SFS change we also have the Season 3 Guide "ready now" that is as of this typing still completely unavailable to the players and GMs (over a month into the season).
Turning boons on a paper sheet into 0 ACP boons you can get if you played X scenario would be acceptable, but right now that's just vague plans and intent. And based on all previous OPF experiences I am deeply skeptical about how much weight to give optimistic theory vs likely reality.
*I believe that the current/former style of SFS boons was already a leaps and bounds improvement over PFS, with the boon 'type' slotting system being a quite elegant solution. Yes a couple were quite a bit stronger or weaker than others (the 1-99 Starship boon is leaps and bounds more usable than any other option. Hirelings could probably shave a +1 each tier for more balance, yet also allow a large number of 4-skill rank core classes to actually contribute at more than 1 thing so I think it's still a overall benefit to the campaign), but
**Also, while GMs are unlikely to stall for the better part of a year, if SF ACP isn't retroactive I could see a lot of tables played in April onwards next year just not actually getting reported until post Gen-Con
Venture-Captain, Australia—NSW—Greater West
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Just so I have it straight in my head:
* We will still be receiving GM/Convention boons until July 21.
* SFS will move to the AcP system from July 21.
* 'Chronicle boons' will resume in Season 4 under AcP, but as 0 point buys based on the scenarios we played.
* There will be no Chronicle boons through Season 3 - essentially it will be the 'dead' season, providing neither a Chronicle boon nor AcP for future purchases.
Anything incorrect?
I would love some clarity on this, Shifty's questions are a great summation of the queries.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I was annoyed by the Rubric that is going to cost me thousands of dollars and significant travel just to get my qualifying reviews,
Why would you have to spend thousands of dollars for that? You could get the reviews done at a convention, you don't have to do them there.
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I have included a map that shows the closest VC's to my location.
* The nearest VC is in Canberra, probably just an overnighter.
* The next closest are QLD and Vic.
* I think the QLD RVC plays Starfinder, the others I am certain I could just say that Kobolds are the rulers of the Starfinder galaxy. I suppose they could nod and smile through a rubric and just assume I knew the rules they are apparently supposed to judge me on.
I priced it all out earlier, it is a cruddy situation and costs a wad of cash (when flights resume of course, we are looking at shut borders for a long time until Coid clears).
I'm lucky enough to know the Venture Team in the region well enough to hook up a session when I get to the need for it (I have the luxury of a decent disposable income), but the average player set on a 5 Nova may be less lucky. I have immuno-compromised and less abled players who aren't likely to be able to travel as well. So they are just flat locked out behind the Rubric gate.
The only concession was we can get one table done 'online', which is ok for those who play online I suppose.
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The potential cost is one of the reasons why I would prefer a system where any 5-star can be an evaluator, rather than having only VCs be an evaluator. (Maybe require one VC evaluation.) It would still take a while to get rolling, but it would definitely make it easier for people with dedication but not disposable income to eventually get their novas.
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* 'Chronicle boons' will resume in Season 4 under AcP, but as 0 point buys based on the scenarios we played.* There will be no Chronicle boons through Season 3 - essentially it will be the 'dead' season, providing neither a Chronicle boon nor AcP for future purchases.
Where was this actually stated that there is a completely dead season with no boons or anything? I thought this was announced now because now that we finally have the AcP system they would be ready to implement the replacement.
For Starfinder no chronicle boons means no new races or starships or anything like that outside of con boons which brings us back to a problem with everything being tied to conventions which I thought we had largely solved back in like 2013. I guess there are online events this time round. At least for 2E there are the normal AcP boons.
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I thought this was announced now because now that we finally have the AcP system they would be ready to implement the replacement.
It's clearly articulated in the Blog post we're talking about:
"The big program change in Year 3: Year of Exploration’s Edge is the phasing out of boons on chronicles. We are using this year to prepare for the launch of Achievement Points in Year 4".
Boons stop now.
AcP launch Season 4 (a year away).
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis
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I don’t understand this no boon thing. I mean, scenario related ones should be on the sheet, not locked behind some ACP thing, even if it’s 0 ACPs to get. That’s just one more step you’ve burdened players with.
And if that’s the way this is going, then for both PFS and SFS, chronicles can just be half-sheets, instead of wasting nearly a half sheet of paper.
And I have yet to see in PF2, any meaningful boons of anything. You know what was on the chronicle sheet for the King in Thorns, the multi-table special? NOTHING. What a let down.
At first, I was just annoyed by this, and now, I’m pretty frustrated by it. I’m sorry to see SFS head down this same direction.
Now, all chronicles are just records of gold/credits, xp, fame, and scenario recap. That’s it.
I don’t know who green-lit this idea, but it’s just dumb.