Hello
I am building a rondelero swashbuckler for a campaign as a back-up character starting at 11th. I am having problems with one of the features of the archetype vs. base class features as listed on the tin:Buckler Bash (Ex): At 2nd level, a rondelero swashbuckler can perform a shield bash with a buckler (use the same damage and critical multiplier as for a light shield). He can treat a buckler as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for the purposes of the swashbuckler’s finesse and all feats and class abilities that refer to such a weapon.
Precise Strike:
At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, a swashbuckler gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon (though not natural weapon attacks), adding her swashbuckler level to the damage dealt. To use this deed, a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler. She can even use this ability with thrown light or onehanded piercing melee weapons, so long as the target is within 30 feet of her. Any creature that is immune to sneak attacks is immune to the additional damage granted by precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from the additional damage of a precise strike. This additional damage is precision damage, and isn’t multiplied on a critical hit.As a swift action, a swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to double her precise strike’s damage bonus on the next attack. This benefit must be used before the end of her turn, or it is lost. This deed’s cost cannot be reduced by any ability or effect that reduces the amount of panache points a deed costs (such as the Signature Deed feat).
----
My problem is this: Does the first feature make my buckler count as a second weapon for the purposes of determining if features like Precise Strike which clearly says "no second weapon" turn off, or does Buckler Bash let me ignore that little issue? It's kind of breaking my brain as the...
This means that you use your falcata or your buckler as primary weapon. If you use your buckler as primary weapon you can't use the falcata
Basically you can only attack with either the buckler or the falcata in a single turn.
I don't know why you would attack with the buckler, given the falcata has better stats but its technically an option.
The main draw of the archetype is letting you have a shield in your hand (which is normally required to be empty) while still getting precise strike damage.
Edit: Actually I'm wrong. The basic version you can get as a base swashbuckler does let you use a buckler.
Basically you can only attack with either the buckler or the falcata in a single turn.
I don't know why you would attack with the buckler, given the falcata has better stats but its technically an option.
The main draw of the archetype is letting you have a shield in your hand (which is normally required to be empty) while still getting precise strike damage.
Edit: Actually I'm wrong. The basic version you can get as a base swashbuckler does let you use a buckler.
I think this was created to support the pc in case of surprise attack (if you need to draw your weapon but the buckler is already to use) or enemy disarm you
Some of the wording of that archetype's abilities can be interpreted to not do anything, such as the level 6 ability (since characters can already swap attacks with weapons this way). They also don't seem to have a way to attack with both in the same turn and keep certain abilities like slashing grace.
Since your level 11, theres some feats that potentially you could go for to mix in shield bashing with your normal attacks. You could get the Upsetting Shield style feat to allow you to eventually get bashing finish with, so that each time you crit with your high crit range weapons, you get a free bash attempt as well (with precise strike damage). You could potentially even get a couple levels of brawler for the two-weapon fighting part and use something like a wave blade a flurry with most your precise strike levels.
If the GM thinks that archetype's abilities prevent you from getting precise strike/ slashing grace or w/e you can probably get unhindered shield to use the shield on the same attacking hand to maybe bypass the no weapon in offhand requirements.
To use the dead, with the Buckler Bash, your other hand must be empty of weapons. This means no Falcata. Since that weapon is the point of the archetype, you probably would only use this when you are without your weapon. [Say someplace where weapons are not allowed.]
Conversely, a buckler is not a weapon (unlike a light ot heavy shield), so you could use two bucklers and dual-wield them with the dead.
/cevah
I find it very difficult to believe that an archetype specifically created to allow the Swashbuckler to use the Rondelero combat style would invalidate one of the Swashbuckler's main class features (precise strike) without specifically saying so or replacing that deed.
Rondelero is the combat art of using the falcata and buckler interchangeably. Not allowing precise strike to function with Rondelero is counter to the intention of the archetype.
And so, of course, this devolves into an RAI(logic) vs RAW(specific) argument
Oh no! They overlooked the requirements!
Yeah, this happens.
As a GM, if this was pointed out to me, I would allow the deed, but only with the buckler and Falcata.
/cevah
Another annoyance with the archetype is the claim I've seen on these forums that a buckler, unlike other light or heavy shields , cannot be enchanted as a weapon.
This certainly puts a crimp in the Rondeleros style until they qualify for the Shieldmaster feat at bab11 which is a long time to wait to use your buckler effectively
Another annoyance with the archetype is the claim I've seen on these forums that a buckler, unlike other light or heavy shields , cannot be enchanted as a weapon.
This certainly puts a crimp in the Rondeleros style until they qualify for the Shieldmaster feat at bab11 which is a long time to wait to use your buckler effectively
That is actually true, bucklers aren't normally a weapon so they can't be enchanted as a weapon.
As a GM it might be nice to allow it for a player who wanted to go that route, but it's definitely a waste of money since the buckler is a worse weapon than the falcata, you only use it if for some reason you can't use the falcata.
Yeah... Unfortunately RAW allows light and heavy shields to be enchanted as weapons...not bucklers
Which makes a house rule allowing that perfectly reasonable.... Yet it's still a house rule... Which is quite annoying in RAW only games
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
That is actually true, bucklers aren't normally a weapon so they can't be enchanted as a weapon.
Yeah... Unfortunately RAW allows light and heavy shields to be enchanted as weapons...not bucklers
What? No. The rules of enchanting a shield as a weapon apply to all shields: "A shield could be built that also acted as a magic weapon, but the cost of the enhancement bonus on attack rolls would need to be added into the cost of the shield and its enhancement bonus to AC." CRB pg. 462, identical wording UE pg. 114
Shield Spikes and the Bashing enchantment are only applicable to light and heavy shield, but you can make a buckler a magic weapon if just fine without using either. Of course, said buckler would only do something in teh hands of a Rondelero, so it is probably not something laying around in every magic item shop, but RAW allows it just fine.
Light and heavy shields appear on the equipment table as weapons, not bucklers.
Buckler's also state they can't be used to shield bash, and shield spikes can't be applied to bucklers.
Bucklers aren't weapons.
Except in the hands of a rondelero.
The rules say you can enchant "A shield" as a magic weapon. A Buckler is a shield ("This small metal shield"). Therefore, a buckler can be enchanted as a magic weapon. Q.E.D.
None of what you said overrides the general rule.
The rules say you can enchant "A shield" as a magic weapon. A Buckler is a shield ("This small metal shield"). Therefore, a buckler can be enchanted as a magic weapon. Q.E.D.
None of what you said overrides the general rule.
You do you.
I don't agree, and I suspect many others don't.