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If I wanted mechanics, I would just always be a Half-Orc for Sacred Tattoos, Shaman's Apprentice, Fate's Favored, Darkvision, a bite attack, and the Falchion/Orc HornBow. Oh, and a floating +2 stat modifier.
Did you mean to say Fate's Favored? As in the faith trait that doubles luck bonuses?
I've definitely had the misfortune of fighting incorporeal creatures at lower levels so I tend to swap the weapon familiarity with shadowhunter so I can use non-magical weapons again incorporeal. Absolutely been a life saver.
Yes, Fate's Favored and Sacred Tattoos gives a +2 Luck bonus on all your saves. It's money.
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Especially since Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier was made a waste of word count and page space because of Fate's Favored.
Is that why it got nerfed so hard? I have the original book which made it a luck bonus, but the next printing made it a deflection bonus, and made the fortification aspect a "once only" deal. I much prefer the original.
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Especially since Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier
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Especially since Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier was made a waste of word count and page space because of Fate's Favored.Is that why it got nerfed so hard? I have the original book which made it a luck bonus, but the next printing made it a deflection bonus, and made the fortification aspect a "once only" deal. I much prefer the original.
Not so much that so much as it was the only headpiece anyone was wearing. It was too good, Fate’s Favored was just icing on it.
Many people rebutted that they should of raised the price (random amounts, some double price, others near endgame loot) instead, which validated the viewpoint that the helm was too good.
I'm sorry to be a cynic but I'm going to reassert my original point; race is a mechanical choice for most gamers...
I will admit, going from my first group of secular, self-taught friends who went from Boy Scouts to Monty Python to Magic: the Gathering to playing 2nd ed. D&D in our parent's basements to a wider community of ttrpg players was a fairly massive culture shock, and a major disappointment.
But "most", "usually" and other such quantifiers are just guesses. It certainly *feels* like most people I've talked to about my hobbies are more interested in crude humor, playing "gotcha!" and stroking their egos, but...maybe that's just my ego talking.I've met some players who, when when they want to build an awesome, effective, mathematically unstoppable beast of a character, are still wonderfully receptive to the world I've built and the story I'm trying to tell. And every one of them is worth dealing with a dozen of those self-important creeps.
Absolutely nothing validates that the helm was "too good".
What a sad, pathetic existence it must be to be so willing to nerf something instead of making the other options better/more desirable.
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I don't think Paizo was going to release an errata document saying "we're buffing every single magical hat ever printed to match this funny hat that makes you super hard to hit and there's no reason to not wear".
I don't think Paizo was going to release an errata document saying "we're buffing every single magical hat ever printed to match this funny hat that makes you super hard to hit and there's no reason to not wear".
They were willing enough to print something new nerfing something they already allowed to be published.
Here's a nice hat, hope you like it.
Oh wait, even though we proofread and edit everything we publish (I promise, we REALLY do!), we accidentally published this hat that is actually too nice and everyone likes it too much, and now all the other hats we published are jealous.
I only mentioned that bit because our gaming group once had a player show up who was new to the group and proceeded to take 30 minutes of group time to start explaining their character's background and then the started into the minutiae of exploring the philosophical difference between their character's race (I don't recall what it was)
I have seen people do that with humans, just replace "race" with "backstory." Probably more often with humans than anything else since humans are a dime a dozen and those that play humans IME feel a need to explain why their character is unique, how their, "saving the village" story is different than the last thousand I've heard, how their "cradling their dying loved one's body" moment wasn't ripped straight from Spiderman or Batman. How this orphan story of growing up on the street is not the same one again.
And I've seen the converse, where a catfolk player will describe themselves as a "catfolk," and that's it. The player didn't feel the need to elaborate more than that.
Someone who is going to do what you described is going to do that with any character, not just ones with "weird races." What you seem to have had is a player issue, not an issue with a race in the game.
No, that just means that it is a popular choice. Probably because it sucks less than a lot of the other options.
But it's just a stupid hat. And if everyone is wearing it, then it's easy to predict and plan around. Why nerf it just because nobody wants to wear a different hat?
Are the other hats jealous? Do we care if the other hats are jealous? Did some nerd actually complain that the hat was too good for the price? What kind of @$$hole complains about things being too good?
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Absolutely nothing validates that the helm was "too good".When multiple people were stating they would gladly pay 10x the price for the helm if it stayed the same, then yeah, they were in fact validating that it was too good.
The problem is the math was mostly correct, but Paizo didn’t want to play around with it. The difference between a deflection bonus and a luck bonus is 500 gold. As per the creation rules that they kept from the 3.5 days. Just easier for them to nerf and ignore its existence, then move on to 2E, than acknowledge anything.
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GMs who care about balance, perhaps? You're being extremely defensive over a powerful piece of equipment that got nerfed 5 years ago and I can't really see why.
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The problem is the math was mostly correct, but Paizo didn’t want to play around with it. The difference between a deflection bonus and a luck bonus is 500 gold. As per the creation rules that they kept from the 3.5 days. Just easier for them to nerf and ignore its existence, then move on to 2E, than acknowledge anything.Absolutely nothing validates that the helm was "too good".When multiple people were stating they would gladly pay 10x the price for the helm if it stayed the same, then yeah, they were in fact validating that it was too good.
Like inheriting some janky item creation rules from 3.5?
I only mentioned that bit because our gaming group once had a player show up who was new to the group and proceeded to take 30 minutes of group time to start explaining their character's background and then the started into the minutiae of exploring the philosophical difference between their character's race (I don't recall what it was)I have seen people do that with humans, just replace "race" with "backstory." Probably more often with humans than anything else since humans are a dime a dozen and those that play humans IME feel a need to explain why their character is unique, how their, "saving the village" story is different than the last thousand I've heard, how their "cradling their dying loved one's body" moment wasn't ripped straight from Spiderman or Batman. How this orphan story of growing up on the street is not the same one again.
And I've seen the converse, where a catfolk player will describe themselves as a "catfolk," and that's it. The player didn't feel the need to elaborate more than that.
Someone who is going to do what you described is going to do that with any character, not just ones with "weird races." What you seem to have had is a player issue, not an issue with a race in the game.
If I gave you the impression that I have a problem with unusual races that wasn't my intention and it isn't the case.
As I've mentioned before, I've got no problem on allowing any race that is mechanically comparable to the core races. That does mean things like I'm not going to allow someone to play a Drow Noble. But a standard Drow, sure. Thematic you can even be a Drow Noble, you just don't get the mechanical benefits.
And you're right that I've seen people regardless of race try go whole hog on stealing the spotlight for their character's experience.
Btw, I did totally make a human character for Zeitgeist Gears of War campaign that became a constable because they allowed their loved one to be killed by inaction. When someone called me out for using Spiderman was response was "Yeah, you got it". However, the character was otherwise unrelated. No spider powers or anything.
In my opinion there isn't much out there that's original in terms of that sort of character inspiration, including race, so I don't bother trying to make something unique that's never been made before. I only endeavor to play something I unique I haven't played before, usually the angle is character class or build, but I usually try to craft a backstory that is appropriate for it.
I have never seen this hat in question being used, by anyone, so I don't really have an iron in this fire.
The very notion of making something worse to be on par with the rest, instead of making everything else better is counterproductive. Nothing ever gets better. The bar never gets raised. And stagnation is LAME.
Maybe, just maybe, they should worry about that balance BS freaking BEFORE they publish it. Maybe?
Releasing something into the wild, just to take it back later because of your own mistake is complete BS, in my opinion. Don't publish it if you are just going to nerf it later. It's that simple.
Make your quality control team actually do their freaking jobs and make the balancing adjustments PRIOR to publishing... what?!?!
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You seem to be unfamiliar with how game design works, bro.
Are you under the impression they shouldn't have printed Unchained Monk, Rogue, and Summoner?
Why nerf it just because nobody wants to wear a different hat?That's precisely why.
Why is this a problem?
Is it a fashion thing? We don't like the scenery of a fantasy game where everyone is wearing the same hat?
Is it because the Union of Butthurt Hats has declared that the popularity of that hat is making all the other hats jealous?
Because it's obviously NOT a balance issue if everyone is wearing the same hat... everyone is wearing it.
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Btw, I did totally make a human character for Zeitgeist Gears of War campaign that became a constable because they allowed their loved one to be killed by inaction. When someone called me out for using Spiderman was response was "Yeah, you got it".
Oh we've all done that. Hell, a guy I played with in a Carrion Crown (IIRC) campaign literally named his character Simon Belmont. But he didn't feel the need to explain for a half hour how his character isn't from the Castlevania games. Mostly because he was.
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The very notion of making something worse to be on par with the rest, instead of making everything else better is counterproductive.Not when the item in question is too good. Buffing every other piece of a headgear in the game to not only be equal to the Jingasa but also still fit within the WBL/item creation guidelines just wouldn't be feasible.
Maybe, just maybe, they should worry about that balance BS freaking BEFORE they publish it. Maybe?It was made for a specific, very hard fight in jade Regent. That it later got dropped into Ultimate Equipment with no changes is rather unfortunate.
Don't publish it if you are just going to nerf it later. It's that simple.
You're assuming they published it with the full awareness and intent to nerf it after.
You seem to be unfamiliar with how game design works, bro.
Are you under the impression they shouldn't have printed Unchained Monk, Rogue, and Summoner?
What's wrong with Unchained? Aren't they an upgrade from the "chained" versions? I'm all for upgrades.
Nerfing things is what grinds my gears.
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It's also absurd to compare a cheap-ish magical helm and saying "everyone wanted that instead of anything else" when the good magical helms ARE 5-20 times it's cost-- I wonder why more people don't buy the helm of teleportation for 75K and choose to instead by a helm for 5k!?
Especially in PFS . . .
(But the nerf makes it a +1 deflection bonus that won't stack with rings of protection, but for more than twice the cost of a +1 ring of protection so essentially no person should ever under any circumstance now write it on their sheet intentionally- even if you got it for free you'd be better off selling it for half price, buying a ring of protection and pocketing an extra 500 gold).
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You seem to be unfamiliar with how game design works, bro.
Are you under the impression they shouldn't have printed Unchained Monk, Rogue, and Summoner?
What's wrong with Unchained? Aren't they an upgrade from the "chained" versions? I'm all for upgrades.
Nerfing things is what grinds my gears.
The rogue and monk are. The summoner is considered one of the most broken classes, but all they really needed to do was change the spells back standard levels instead of making spells like haste be cast a whole spell level lower (2nd instead of 3rd).
Honestly, I'm not very familiar with either Summoner, so I can't say whether or not one is nerfed, or "too powerful"... I have pretty strong opinions on Summoning, in general, and avoid it like the plague.
I can tell you that I am not the kind of GM that complains about things being too good, and I would allow you to play either version of the Summoner in any of my games... because I ain't scared.
I pretty much use pre-errata everything in my games, because I would rather elevate the level of play, than whatever make everything suck "balancing act" the errata adjustments are after.
Wanna be a Constitution Witch, go ahead. Wear the old hat, I don't care. Just remember, everything you can do, your enemies can do more...
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The rogue and monk are. The summoner is considered one of the most broken classes, but all they really needed to do was change the spells back standard levels instead of making spells like haste be cast a whole spell level lower (2nd instead of 3rd).You seem to be unfamiliar with how game design works, bro.
Are you under the impression they shouldn't have printed Unchained Monk, Rogue, and Summoner?
What's wrong with Unchained? Aren't they an upgrade from the "chained" versions? I'm all for upgrades.
Nerfing things is what grinds my gears.
Master Summoner, Synthesist, something something Wands of Teleport something something
Something something letting a player play two full-powered characters at once
I love gestalt!
The cloak of resistance is arguably the best shoulder slot item, but Paizo didn't nerf it into the ground.
At that point, fix the math, remove the items that have become a tax just to meet the math. Open up those slots for new and interesting items that you can always go back and nerf into uselessness at a later date.
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The cloak of resistance is arguably the best shoulder slot item, but Paizo didn't nerf it into the ground.
They arguably can't. The math is too spot on, and has been for 20 years now. Probably because it's a Core book item that's taken directly from the 3.0 and 3.5 DMG. I will say that I was happy to see the amulet of mighty fists have a price reduction. That was really expensive.
Oh, they will nerf a hat because everyone is wearing it, but they are totally OK with the fundamental math requiring the characters to all wear the same cloak?
What a bunch of BS.
Some semblance of consistency would be mighty nice. Is that just too much to ask for?
That's fair.
I'm getting all worked up over nothing. I don't really care one way or another.
I have fun with PF1, despite how cynical I am. I obviously don't have THAT much of an issue with how they do things since I enjoy it so much.
This isn't even the rules arena anyways.
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If we start a derail about Sacred Geometry, I'll have won Pathfinder Forums Bingo!
At that point, fix the math, remove the items that have become a tax just to meet the math. Open up those slots for new and interesting items that you can always go back and nerf into uselessness at a later date.They did fix the underlying math of the system, that's how we got P2.
Eh, no- they didn't "fix the math" they changed every single thing except the names, and I'm not convinced the math is any better.
Might I suggest the automatic bonus progression in pathfinder unchained.
Eh, I don't like this because things being automatic isn't fun. There is no problem with the math, PCs are all overpowered anyways, so if the "automatic progression" items simply do not exist then that problem is completely solved, and the encounters are more balanced instead of being lolfests.
If we start a derail about Sacred Geometry, I'll have won Pathfinder Forums Bingo!
Sacred Geometry is such a wonderful feat. I love it for builds where spellcasting isn't the focus, and you don't have room for a bunch of stupid metamagic feats. Plus, it's silly and fun to roll butt-loads of dice.
Btw, I did totally make a human character for Zeitgeist Gears of War campaign that became a constable because they allowed their loved one to be killed by inaction. When someone called me out for using Spiderman was response was "Yeah, you got it".Oh we've all done that. Hell, a guy I played with in a Carrion Crown (IIRC) campaign literally named his character Simon Belmont. But he didn't feel the need to explain for a half hour how his character isn't from the Castlevania games. Mostly because he was.
Exactly, I make a backstory for my character but when introducing I try to keep to maybe 5 or 6 sentences that get the picture across without giving too much detail. The other players (who are my friends for 10+ years) still aren't that interested in the details of my make believe persona unless it's actually relevant to the adventure story for some reason.