So far, in the game I play and the 2 I have GM'd for, there hasn't been a static answer to that question.
In the game I play in, Our party of 4 just did 4 encounters in a row, smashed up into 1 massive back to back encounter, including one level +2 encounter.
It very nearly killed us, forced us to use a ton of consumables, all of our daily use resources, and put an end to the whole adventuring day, but it was a lot of fun. We knew going in that the enemy was expecting us and pooling their resources to fight us, so we went in prepared as well.
Other times, especially when dungeon crawling, we take a little bit of time after the immediate end of battle to check the immediate vicinity for danger and will then decide to rest if people are injured. Our party has a lot of magical healing, but no one pushing medicine past trained or with skill feats, so 10 minutes can only heal 2 people max, requiring 2 players making checks. So when we do take short rests, they usually push 30 minutes to an hour. The GM is usually pretty clear about when we are in a time crunch to save someone or prevent something eminent, and otherwise gives us as much time as we take, but is also willing to have enemies take that time to prepare as well.
It has been fun to play in so I try to do the same when I GM.
In a dungeon? The parties I'm in spend typically 0-10 minutes resting. Although the party I GM for has a cleric with ward medic and continual healing which cuts down on rest time significantly.
Outside of a dungeon and otherwise have no time constraints? I've seen anywhere from no time at all to up to an hour. This is mostly due to the party I'm a player in relying a lot on focus spells for out of combat healing (lay on hands and goodberry).
In dungeon? If possible and only lightly wounded approx. 10min, longer if possible and more heavily wounded.
Outdoors? However long it takes.
We just had an outdoors boss fight in our current AP and I calculated 80 minutes of Assurance (Medicine) while using Continual Healing and Ward Medic. However because it was a boss fight and all our spell ressources are severely depleted we will anyway probably call it a day.
So far, in the game I play and the 2 I have GM'd for, there hasn't been a static answer to that question.
Same for me. I'm playing mostly PFS, so the party composition varies a lot and as such the duration of rests. In my opinion, it has more to do with the party composition than anything else. If I bring my Angelic Sorcerer, I top everyone in a few rounds, so we never stop. If there's a dedicated medic with Continual Recovery or a Plant Druid or Champion, it takes in general a few 10-minute rests. If there is no such character, it may last for hours.
In my opinion, it's not dependent on the DM or the adventure, just on the characters. I don't think there's any baseline but "how much it takes for your players to be confident and continue".I also don't think you can stress your players by giving them too few time to recover. I've seen in Fall of Plaguestone that if the players are not confident in their ability to continue and the DM push them they just disengage. So, it turns short rests into long rests.
I have two parties, and they behave very differently.
One party has a well-built cast of PCs who hit hard, have defensive options and 2 out of 5 can reliably Treat Wounds. They take 10 minutes most often, and those who aren't Treating Wounds are searching, scouting, or refocusing.
The other party overthought it, in my opinion. Out of 6 PCs, 3 chose to build very interesting characters. Long story short, 1/3 of the party made characters who really don't deal damage. 1/3 of the party are spellcasters, the party is level 2 so far and they are afraid to use their spell slots and cantrips only do so much. Finally there's a rogue who really only does weapon damage + sneak attack - no STR to back it up. And last, a Barbarian who is doing it right and regularly hits huge damage.
Consequently, this party takes an absolute beating until the Barbarian can rescue them. On top of that, only one character is really good at Treating Wounds. They regularly back out of dungeons for an hour to heal up. There's only so much refocusing or scouting to be done, so they sit on their hands alot.
My party (I'm the GM) is playing Extinction Curse, and they need probably 20 - 60 minute healing downtime after nearly every encounter. (As soon as somebody does get hurt, they lose 25 or 50 hit points or so. This takes at least two helpings of the ten-minute period to fix)
Is this really the intended baseline Paizo went for?
We're level 6, BTW.
Does the party use healing consumables? Do they have any magic items that help with healing? Is there a Cleric or other spellcaster who can cast healing magic?
I'm finding that the group that uses Elixers of Life and Potions of Heal, and who has 2 characters who can reliably use Treat Wounds is spending very little time recovering from battle.
Yeah, party composition is the biggest factor for how long they need after battle. For that reason, Paizo seems to avoid strict time limits in their adventures. For instance, in Fall of Plaguestone,
So far, in the game I play and the 2 I have GM'd for, there hasn't been a static answer to that question.
A "typical" hasn't really seemed to form yet, but has tended so far to be limited to however long it takes to give every wounded character a chance for some healing.
My PF2 Ironfang Invasion game avoided that question about back-to-back encounters because hiding in the forest meant that the party had only one encounter per day. The exception was one time a Ironfang Legion patrol interrupted them dealing with a Molthune spy, which meant the 2nd encounter began before the 1st encounter was finished. Would that count as negative time between encounters? Also, they had had no time to rest during the invasion of Phaendar.
However, at 3rd level they reached a cave system occupied with xulgath cultists. They could often take a rest break between encounters.
They split the 1st encounter into 2 encounters via deception in luring one sentry away from his buddy. Then they lured out the buddy, but the buddy delayed a few minutes while he asked some other warriors to watch his post. That 2nd group of sentries plus their stone-blooded acolyte boss was the 2nd encounter. They paused 10 minutes after that 2nd encounter, with some people healing via Treat Wounds and other people hiding the bodies. A Xulgath Skulker spotted them near the end of the healing period and reported on the trespassers to the 4th-level barbarian Handiss. Handiss misinterpreted the situation and told the others to wait in reserve while he dealt with the trespassers himself. His instructions took long enough that the party finished their healing.
Handiss hurt the party hard, due to his Deny Advantage against a party with three rogues, but the party moved on immediately afterwards. The Xulgath Skulker had decided that she and three warriors where not enough to deal with the party alone, so they had retreated to the lower level before the party found them. After the party cleared out the other two rooms on the upper level, they took 20 minutes to heal.
The 1st encounter in the lower level was against a gelatinouss cube, which managed to engulf three party members out of six. The party was at half hit points after that, but the rogue who spoke Draconic heard the xulgath waiting behind a door ("The fight has gone silent. Did the cube win or the trespassers win?"), so the party knew that they had no time to rest. The xulgath from the upper levels and the xulgath from the lower level organized into one 180-xp extreme-threat force. The party's own strength was 240 xp for five PCs and one NPC, ignoring their injuries, so given that they were at half hit points, they were the weaker group. The player characters retreated up the ladder to the balcony over that lower-level room. The last rogue had to run for the ladder as the xulgath burst into the room, because he had tried to set a trap for the xulgath. Being up the ladder gave the party a major tactical advantage because they were good at ranged attacks and the xulgath had only javelins, a heavy crossbow, and one ranged cantrip.
My players are excellent at tactics. And they do it without breaking character, too, for marvelous roleplaying.
They spent 10 minute healing before investigating the rest of the lower level in non-xulgath encounters.
I count 8 separate encounters in the caves, due to the final consolidation of the xulgath, and 40 minutes rest for healing. That would be 5 minutes rest on average. They also had many multi-round delays for scouting and deceptions.
Depends on the fight. A few weeks ago they were able to finish five encounter areas before having to retreat. They did get hammered though.
A heal from a cleric font often boosts a character back up from a big hit. If the group takes a bunch of AoE hits, they might need downtime to heal the party using medicine. It depends on what they're fighting and how the rolls go.
Depends on the fight. A few weeks ago they were able to finish five encounter areas before having to retreat. They did get hammered though.
A heal from a cleric font often boosts a character back up from a big hit. If the group takes a bunch of AoE hits, they might need downtime to heal the party using medicine. It depends on what they're fighting and how the rolls go.
Oh yeah, clerics make a huge difference. The group I GM for just hit level 5, and seeing the cleric heal for 3d10+24 four times a day is insane.
Oh yeah, clerics make a huge difference. The group I GM for just hit level 5, and seeing the cleric heal for 3d10+24 four times a day is insane.
Though certainly easier to apply and depending on the length of the fight I don't think that there is a severe difference in between Champion and Cleric when it comes to in combat effectiveness.
We just had a long boss fight (9 rounds) and I burned through all all 4 heals for about 160 points of healing in total in addition to 3 uses of Battle Medicine, but the latter could just be used by everyone.
However in the same fight (we are currently at level 6) a redeemer Champion would have probably prevented approx 64 points of direct damage (due to damage reduction via Champions reaction), healed for 48 damage (2x lay on hands) and prevented an unknown amount of damage due to enfeeble 2 (the enemy melee attacked a total of 14 times, so at least 26 points due to -2 strength penalty, not counting additional misses due to -2 to hit), for a total of approx. 140 points of damage healed or prevented, potentially even more if I would have a look at the misses.
I do feel like it can be a little awkward, especially in the early game. We were in a dungeon in one of the aps, and there was lots of encounters in it. We ended up having to take multiple breaks, some just an hour but some up to three hours, even had to spend a whole night in the dungeon. I personally felt a little thrown off, as we were in the headquarters of our enemy but we had to rest so much. If the dm threw random encounters at us we would've been toast a couple of times.
I've read it in a few placed before, in 2e it's pretty much assumed you start every encounter with full hp. Half the party going in already at half or so can be a recipe for disaster.
Caveat, both my games have healing clerics, and the Plaguestone one has four of the five players with healing abilities (be it medicine, lay on hands, or alchemical potions).
Age of Ashes at level 8/9ish has been a while since they've had multiple encounters back to back (yay jungle), but back when they did it was ten, maybe rarely twenty minutes to heal up.
Plaguestone is usually around 20 minutes because of no ward medic and also because relatively they're getting way more shit-kicked.
I don't think either table has seen them take an entire half an hour between combats.
At high level, it's strongly dependent on the DM giving access to Wand of Heal I in big quantity. With proper access, you can heal everyone back in a few rounds.
Thank you all.
I might be mistaken, but I'm getting the impression most of you reporting relatively short healing downtime are still at low levels, or not playing official APs. (Feel free to provide more detail to dispel this notion!)
It would be interesting to hear the experiences of seasoned groups well into the middle or high levels, playing official APs at "full" difficulty.
It's probably the existence of a dedicated cleric, but my level 8 Age of Ashes players take a lot less time healing right now than they did at early level. But that might just be how things are playing out right now and their breaks might stretch out.
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Thank you all.
I might be mistaken, but I'm getting the impression most of you reporting relatively short healing downtime are still at low levels, or not playing official APs. (Feel free to provide more detail to dispel this notion!)
It would be interesting to hear the experiences of seasoned groups well into the middle or high levels, playing official APs at "full" difficulty.
We have had only 9 months since Pathfinder 2nd Edition was released in August 2019. I usually take 2.5 years to finish an adventure path at 17th level, so after 9 months of play at my rate, a party would reach only 5th level. I started in October 2019, so my party is only at 4th level. Therefore, middle and high levels on an official adventure path under PF2 are going to be scarce.
I have been easy on my players by running the adventure path at only full difficulty while we grow accustomed to PF2. In other adventure paths I beefed up the encounters. Nevertheless, I do have the opponents react to the party, so if the party takes a break, then their enemy has time to organize and offer a tougher challenge. My players like seeing the world react to their decisions, even if that makes their characters' lives harder.
Despite needing some healing between encounters in the xulgath caves at 3rd level, my players are not concerned about healing. When they leveled up to 4th level, they did not enhance their abilities to heal. Instead, the rogue/sorcerer learned Magical Trickster and more languages, the ranger learned Snare Crafting and Snare Specialist, the druid/cleric learned Reach Spell and Improved Tracker, etc.
There are a lot of variables that determine how long you need to rest. Things to look at are:
10 min per person needing healing with an hour back off time in case one medicine check doesn't do it. (can be altered by feats)
10 min to refocus
10 min to fully examine a room
Full rest into the next day to recover spell slots
Travel time back to nearest restock point for items
So far my group in extinction curse hasn't stopped too often for healing thanks to the group cleric and one of the monks being trained in medicine. They also do burst heals if they didn't roll well for the medicine check. Most of my players are also fairly new to Pen and Paper RPGs as well so they don't always think to stop and rest before moving on. Thankfully they haven't died yet due to luck and a little GM magic in the form of me playing one of their characters when a player is late or misses a session.
Thank you all.
I might be mistaken, but I'm getting the impression most of you reporting relatively short healing downtime are still at low levels, or not playing official APs. (Feel free to provide more detail to dispel this notion!)
It would be interesting to hear the experiences of seasoned groups well into the middle or high levels, playing official APs at "full" difficulty.
We are level 11 in the third module of Age of Ashes. We stop adventuring when the cleric runs out of healing and the party is short on spells. In combat healing seems necessary as things hit hard and can bring a party down quickly if not healed in combat. The only durable class seems to be the Champion. Their high AC, 10 hit points, and two good saves keeps them in good shape.
I tend to group encounters together in one big encounter having the monsters react in an area in a coordinated manner.
Our group is comprised of the following along with a brief description of what they bring to the table:
1. Champion Redeemer: High AC and hit points. Champion's Reaction stops a lot of damage. Shield block was more useful at lower level and practically useless at lvl 11. Probably needs a shield. +2 AC from the shield is big though. Does moderate damage as sword and board unless facing a creature with a weakness to good damage, then hits very hard.
2. Ranger Archer with Animal Companion using precision damage hunter's prey ability: Does good damage now. Started off pretty low, but has progressively gotten better. Tends to mix up Hunted Shot, Deadly Aim, and Hunter's Aim depending on the AC of the enemy. Has good archery tactical options. Also uses an animal companion who adds a little damage and flanking. Has gone through 4 animal companions. They are easy to kill if the enemy focuses on them and takes big damage from AoE hits. Ranger has no way to heal them like the druid.
3. Rogue Thief Racket: High damage. Moderate AC. Very good at skills. Usually operates as the advanced scout and uses Stealth for initiative more often than perception. Skill feats make the rogue the most mobile in the group. Feats are not easy to choose for rogue as they have different interesting ways to build, so I just started with a pretty straight-forward traditional dex-based damage rogue.
4. Warpriest Cleric of Cayden wizard multiclass: Focuses on healing. Combines healing font with spells and strong medicine skill with skill feats. Tends to use multiclass wizard slot for invisibility and haste. He can stay invis while healing and buffing while avoiding getting smashed most of the time.
5. Maestro Muse Bard: Bard has best one action cantrips in the game. Boost the entire party while allowing him to cast useful spells and deal cantrip damage. He tends to Harmonize and Inspire Courage and Inspire Defense most of the time, but occasionally throws in a Shadow Siphon, Haste, or Magic Missile/Damage Cantrip when needed. So far seems like the most well-rounded and effective caster in the game. Seems like 5E and PF2 both wanted bards stronger than other caster classes for unknown reasons.
6. Bomber Alchemist: He throws bombs. Likes to stack persistent damage. Does lots of aggregate damage over the course of the battle. Doesn't get the huge hits compared to the rogue and the archer, but his damage adds up over the course of battles and does better against groups. Also provides useful buffs like a bonus to movement and a mist elixir that cuts down on damage. Surprising number of misses from the mist elixir. He sets up the party for easier hitting with electrical bombs.
Lvl 11 was a big level for the group. Nice little power boost for everyone.
Just wanna make sure everyone's aware that the same character cannot benefit from multiple characters using Treat Wounds. Unless someone has the Continual Recovery skill feat, the recipient must wait 1 hour before the next attempt, by anyone.
This one surprised me early on.