How have you managed the reveal as a player or a DM? What do you recommend for how to keep the party drama in check around this feature?
I had a bit of an incident at my table that I'd like advice on. The vigilante PC previously revealed their civilian identity to another PC without incident. But the player reacted very differently last night when another player finally pierced their disguise after 11 levels. The two players were navigating the revelation fine, until the "left out" PC basically demanded to not be left out. The player of the vigilante didn't take kindly to that demand. It doesn't help that the "left out" PC has been playing a bit of a lone wolf, so there was a bit of a pot calling the kettle black going on here.
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Um, well, it is a class feature intended to cause drama. In any superhero story, the reveal of the heroes identity never is a smooth moment. It is always the moment that causes a rift in the team. A moment that makes you (the audience) go, Oh No! How will they reconcile their differences and rejoin forces in order to defeat the big bad? Oh the drama!
Sorry, but the only way around this is to have everyone in on it from the start. Otherwise it is a dramatic story beat that the heroes need to overcome in order to continue their quest. The overcoming of which (continuing the superheroes stereotype) kindles the reforging of stronger bonds, uniting the team against the enemy just in time for the final showdown.
Classically, the reveal happens at the beginning of the third act. The heroes have just prevented the villain's nefarious plans. Victory seems at hand, but then internal conflict drives the heroes apart. The villain counters and the divided heroes are no match for his villainous villainy! All seems to be lost. Que act four, where the heroes rally, forgive one another, and defeat the villain.
Bonus points if the thing that drove the heroes apart was actually all part of the villainous plan. It is the villain who uncovered the hero's secret identity and reveals it to the hero's trusted friends in order to make them turn on him.
How have you managed the reveal as a player or a DM? What do you recommend for how to keep the party drama in check around this feature?
I had a bit of an incident at my table that I'd like advice on. The vigilante PC previously revealed their civilian identity to another PC without incident. But the player reacted very differently last night when another player finally pierced their disguise after 11 levels. The two players were navigating the revelation fine, until the "left out" PC basically demanded to not be left out. The player of the vigilante didn't take kindly to that demand. It doesn't help that the "left out" PC has been playing a bit of a lone wolf, so there was a bit of a pot calling the kettle black going on here.
How did it take 11 levels for them to find out? House rules or something?
Um, well, it is a class feature intended to cause drama.
Maybe. But that class feature as written gets discovered by the rest of the party. Quick.
Um, well, it is a class feature intended to cause drama.Maybe. But that class feature as written gets discovered by the rest of the party. Quick.
I mean...situationally? If you're out in BFE with this adventurer you met level 1, and you finally get back to the capital city by 11, where it turns out that adventurer is actually some minor nobility assuming a different identity to adventure, there's not really much opportunity to discover it.
the "left out" PC has been playing a bit of a lone wolf
Are you sure these two things are unrelated? The way I see it, the Vigilante is the one that destroyed having a fully functional party, due to his secret keeping, and I can totally see the "lone wolf" being a response to that. If the Vigilante's player doesn't want his character to trust the party and work closely with them, why should the left out player not do the same?
the "left out" PC basically demanded to not be left out
The player probably feels like the others are forming a group within the group, and don't want him to be part of the club. Seriously, this feel like elementary school "we hang around at school but you're not allowed in our tree house" drama.
Depending on how exactly the dual identity is handled in your game, the player might just be sick and tired of having to act as if he didn't know that the two identities are the same guy. Many players don't like having to act against player knowledge.
Um, well, it is a class feature intended to cause drama.
I'd say it's a class feature made to appease the Batman fanboys who are too stupid to find the disguise rules in the CRB. A badly designed, badly written class feature at that.
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The only vigilante I've played is a Duchess who, on occasion, sends her maid to accompany the party instead of going herself. The rest of the PCs don't know the maid is the duchess in disguise, nor does she ever intend to reveal that secret. However, the rest of the players do know ooc. So if her identity is ever revealed, the drama caused should occur in game, not out.
IMO, if it's in game drama that is going on, it's totally fine. I like drama to be part of my game, as long as it stays in the game. If it was the player being kept out of the loop, then your drama is real, and needs to be dealt with in the real.
I mean...situationally? If you're out in BFE with this adventurer you met level 1, and you finally get back to the capital city by 11, where it turns out that adventurer is actually some minor nobility assuming a different identity to adventure, there's not really much opportunity to discover it.Um, well, it is a class feature intended to cause drama.Maybe. But that class feature as written gets discovered by the rest of the party. Quick.
You should be getting a roll to notice that they go off by themselves and do something and come back. You might not know both names and addresses but having no idea that something up is just ridiculous.
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You should be getting a roll to notice that they go off by themselves and do something and come back. You might not know both names and addresses but having no idea that something up is just ridiculous.I mean...situationally? If you're out in BFE with this adventurer you met level 1, and you finally get back to the capital city by 11, where it turns out that adventurer is actually some minor nobility assuming a different identity to adventure, there's not really much opportunity to discover it.Um, well, it is a class feature intended to cause drama.Maybe. But that class feature as written gets discovered by the rest of the party. Quick.
Not if they never do that.
I realize that many vigilante players do play them ridiculously, and if George steps behind a bush and suddenly Bob pops out then yeah, you should be suspicious. On the other hand, they could be a player who handled their identities in a subtle fashion and never did anything to reveal their alter ego. As Ryan was saying, the aforementioned PC might have just always been in their vigilante ego for the entire game up until that point.
But yeah, unless the players were doing some sneaky stuff, then the players should all be in on it even when their characters aren't.
How did it take 11 levels for them to find out? House rules or something?
Max ranks in disguise, charisma-based archetype (Magical Child), trait, and Seamless Guise. Her total bonus is +38 at this point. They've gotten rolls, sometimes with fairly large circumstance bonuses, just this is the first time one of them actually won the opposed check. (The other PC found out when the vigilante PC in her civilian persona got drunk in an undercover mission and needed to change back into vigilante persona for a surprise mission.)
This is Hell's Rebels campaign, so most of the campaign is in a single city, making protecting the identity rather important. It also means that her rebellion persona doesn't have to spend 24/7 with the party. There's been a few times where the vigilante has traveled or adventured with the party as the "normal" guise, but most of that AP has the party driving the action or in those cases where it hasn't, it takes time to gather the party at the action, enough for the vigilante to do their 5 round transformation sequence.
The players all know the character class of everyone involved.
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In my campaign, I did enjoy pointing out to our party's vigilante that he said something to me that I had just recently informed his other identity of via a Sending spell, thereby confirming that the two identities were the same person as I had long suspected.
Out of character, of course, everyone at the table knew what was going on.
That is, indeed, what sparked the check that led to all of this.
Its just important to realize not every vigilante player handles the identities like John Battman
I mean, Supermans been doing this for like a century. And Batman. Shazam! Wonder woman. Green lantern. Green arrow. The Question. Daredevil. Spider-man. Robin. Robin. Robin. Robin. Robin.You should be getting a roll to notice that they go off by themselves and do something and come back. You might not know both names and addresses but having no idea that something up is just ridiculous.I mean...situationally? If you're out in BFE with this adventurer you met level 1, and you finally get back to the capital city by 11, where it turns out that adventurer is actually some minor nobility assuming a different identity to adventure, there's not really much opportunity to discover it.Um, well, it is a class feature intended to cause drama.Maybe. But that class feature as written gets discovered by the rest of the party. Quick.
I don't want to sound mean or anything but anytime you're trying to defend anything with examples from DC Comics you might as well just type in that you think I'm completely right and there's no point in discussing any further because that's what it looks like. The idea that you can stand slightly differently and people you've worked with for years won't be able to tell it to you is the dumbest single thing I've ever come across in fiction. At the age of 11 I was like this is dumb and pretty much decided to not read DC Comics, at least the ones with no mask. Never been a decision I regret.
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I don't want to sound mean or anything but anytime you're trying to defend anything with examples from DC Comics you might as well just type in that you think I'm completely right and there's no point in discussing any further because that's what it looks like. The idea that you can stand slightly differently and people you've worked with for years won't be able to tell it to you is the dumbest single thing I've ever come across in fiction. At the age of 11 I was like this is dumb and pretty much decided to not read DC Comics, at least the ones with no mask. Never been a decision I regret.I mean, Supermans been doing this for like a century. And Batman. Shazam! Wonder woman. Green lantern. Green arrow. The Question. Daredevil. Spider-man. Robin. Robin. Robin. Robin. Robin.You should be getting a roll to notice that they go off by themselves and do something and come back. You might not know both names and addresses but having no idea that something up is just ridiculous.I mean...situationally? If you're out in BFE with this adventurer you met level 1, and you finally get back to the capital city by 11, where it turns out that adventurer is actually some minor nobility assuming a different identity to adventure, there's not really much opportunity to discover it.Um, well, it is a class feature intended to cause drama.Maybe. But that class feature as written gets discovered by the rest of the party. Quick.
I think if I ever play a vigilante I will not do the disappear for a minute and be back as the Masked WhoIsitPerson. I think that is ridiculous unless of course the rest of the pcs are in on it.
I would set up the Vigilante Identity as a servant, henchman, guard or whatever. Then just arrange for the Social Identity to be away on a meeting or something and schedule that the Vigilante Identity fill in for them.
This would be ideal for anything that could be dangerous. Yes you'll get caught in situations where you'll have to fight as your Social Identity from time to time when this plan is not feasible. Be careful not to use your super awesomeness. ;)
I don't think anyone it any group I played with would have a problem with their pc's not knowing if I did it with some finesse as detailed above.
Party composition might make things more or less difficult.
I mean a vigilante in a group of say an Oracle, Sorcerer and a Paladin. Probably not much to worry about.
An Investigator on the other hand...well that would be fun rping until I'd assume they would eventually figure it out or you just revealed it for whatever reason you deemed it appropriate in or out of game. :)