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Starfinder is still a young game and I understand the need to build out character options, starships, and the flesh out the setting. However, science fiction is filled with vehicle chases, mechs, aircraft, submersibles, speeders, exploration & colonization vehicles.
Now that we have a starship book in the pipeline, can we PLEASE get a vehicles book? One that includes vehicle creation rules and mech rules? Pretty please? The minimalist section in the SFCRB just isn't enough.
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Please, no. Vehicles don't work in combat except as GM free gifts that are a few levels ahead of you, and we have enough across the CRB, Armory, and AotS! 6. The "too expensive and made of cardboard" problem for same level vehicles is understandable, probably not fixable, and would hurt the dismounted game if it were.
I, for one, would definitely like to see some more vehicle support. There are quite a few niches not filled by the current set of vehicles and I think a system of improving vehicles akin to what we've got for powered armor would not go amiss.
One of my first characters was a motorcycle racer who won a very risky race and got the party enough funds to get off-planet before corporate goons swarmed them. Vehicles are really pretty niche equipment and should probably be regularly relegated to the role of set pieces but that does not mean they shouldn't get support.
However, I'd say that it should probably be rolled into another armory book as opposed to being a separate book.
A whole book? No thank you.
Some GM facing creation rules in armory 2? Sure, could be interesting
Though, for me AotS 6 rounded the examples and special qualities out enough that I don't need it anytime soon.
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Probably a chapter in the Starship book or in COM 2, perhaps right next to the chapter on piloting mechas.
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I would also like a Vehicle Operations Manual.
Road Warrior in the Fullbright could be a thing.
Decommissioned mining crawlers that the PCs are using as a home base on Akiton should be a thing!
Just use the same system as the starships with base frames and systems. That way the system is normalized across all possible vehicles, including mecha.
Add in some character options for drivers and we're good!
Please, no. Vehicles don't work in combat except as GM free gifts that are a few levels ahead of you, and we have enough across the CRB, Armory, and AotS! 6. The "too expensive and made of cardboard" problem for same level vehicles is understandable, probably not fixable, and would hurt the dismounted game if it were.
I agree that vehicles do feel a little overpriced. The vehicles "made of cardboard" issue is just people simply not understanding that this is just the leveling/progression system doing its job when people feel the need to put NPCs/PCs on the same level as military vehicles.
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Please, no. Vehicles don't work in combat except as GM free gifts that are a few levels ahead of you, and we have enough across the CRB, Armory, and AotS! 6. The "too expensive and made of cardboard" problem for same level vehicles is understandable, probably not fixable, and would hurt the dismounted game if it were.
Please, yes.
Vehicle chases & science fiction vehicular combat are iconic tropes of the genre. We don't have a vehicle creation system like we do with starship combat. People said starship combat wasn't worth doing yet Starfinder is one of the best systems I've ever used, so clearly Paizo has the design chops to make it work if attention is paid to it. And "hurting the dismounted game" doesn't really make sense. Most vehicle related activity is going to be on a vehicle vs. vehicle stage after the 1st round or 2 of combat if one side is on foot and the other is in vehicles.
Just because something hasn't been implemented well in other games to date is no reason to exclude it. In Starfinder's science fantasy setting, the gymnastics done to avoid utilizing vehicles more effectively feels like a weak attempt to force the Pathfinder encounter design and story structure on a game that should have fewer limits.
Also, Savage Worlds handles vehicle rules and chases pretty well. Although I haven't played a version of the system in decades, I presume Shadowrun still includes vehicle rules and I don't remember them as being broken back in the 90s - hacking was the problem child and Starfinder handles hacking pretty well, IMO.
I'd also note that vehicle rules are supposed to be in the upcoming PF2 Gamemastery Guide, so if they're a necessary element in a fantasy game that is primarily set at a much lower tech level, we should certainly have more vehicular rules than the few pages they were able to cram into the SFCRB.
Embrace the genre differences, Paizo! Please give us expanded vehicle rules.
I'd be keen for a few extra options so that I can 'James Bond' my Truckster, or just doing up the Doobby Taxiola to move the party around in style.
Or even just having an ambulance on hand for critical injuries.
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Yeah, military vehicle article had walkers, more submarines, dropships among other stuff :D
That said, I could definitely see book dedicated to this because of alien vehicles
I'll definitely have to check that out but I still want a vehicle construction system similar to starships rather than relying just on pre-builts. Robots can be built under the NPC rules, after all.
The underpinnings of the leveled gear and the (in some cases) pathetic performance stats of low-level vehicles in the SFCRB really necessitate a system that allows for vehicle creation.
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I think that to make vehicles really work, we do need a somewhat dedicated book:
* A selection of vehicles, obviously.
* Workable rules for damaging and repairing vehicles; maybe less "total destruction" and more "degradation of function until you can fix up during 10m rest"
* Comprehensive GM advice on running a game where vehicles are a thing. How do you keep your adventure on the rails when the PCs acquire off-road capability? What sort of environmental hazards become nonsensical when the PCs get vehicles? What kind of problems can you confront them with now that would be too dangerous before? What if the PCs lose their vehicle while your adventure is counting on them having it?
* Smoother vehicles-on-grid combat rules, perhaps with an idea about how to cope when vehicles are just too fast to really fit on a normal flipmat.
* Another long hard look at the chase rules. Currently it's a bit too easy for a chase to be over (won or lost) in 1-2 phases.
* A wealth system for giving vehicles to the party without pulling the rug out from under normal WBL. What if they steal or lose a vehicle?
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I think that to make vehicles really work, we do need a somewhat dedicated book:
* A selection of vehicles, obviously.
* Workable rules for damaging and repairing vehicles; maybe less "total destruction" and more "degradation of function until you can fix up during 10m rest"
* Comprehensive GM advice on running a game where vehicles are a thing. How do you keep your adventure on the rails when the PCs acquire off-road capability? What sort of environmental hazards become nonsensical when the PCs get vehicles? What kind of problems can you confront them with now that would be too dangerous before? What if the PCs lose their vehicle while your adventure is counting on them having it?
* Smoother vehicles-on-grid combat rules, perhaps with an idea about how to cope when vehicles are just too fast to really fit on a normal flipmat.
* Another long hard look at the chase rules. Currently it's a bit too easy for a chase to be over (won or lost) in 1-2 phases.
* A wealth system for giving vehicles to the party without pulling the rug out from under normal WBL. What if they steal or lose a vehicle?
Props to a post full of awesome ideas!
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Yeah, military vehicle article had walkers, more submarines, dropships among other stuff :D
That said, I could definitely see book dedicated to this because of alien vehicles
I'll definitely have to check that out but I still want a vehicle construction system similar to starships rather than relying just on pre-builts. Robots can be built under the NPC rules, after all.
The underpinnings of the leveled gear and the (in some cases) pathetic performance stats of low-level vehicles in the SFCRB really necessitate a system that allows for vehicle creation.
I will say that I like that *most* vehicles make use of utility mount systems and you can swap out the weapons. The Combat Buggy/Jeep is "okay" Speed/AC wise but you can make it pretty good at hit and run with the right weapon mounted.
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I'll throw my wieght in and say we need a vehicles book and some good rules for them.
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I'd like to see a pawn collection for vehicles as well.
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I'd like to see a pawn collection for vehicles as well.
Oh, Hell yes!
I think a vehicles book would be a good addition. Personally, I'd be interested in seeing the likes of:
Few corporate manufacturers for flavor/inspiration.
Variations in technological / magical sophistication / social status.
Chassis & components for:
Domestic vehicles & militarized personnel carriers
Racing vehicles (wheeled, hovering, flying/zero-g, legged vehicles).
> few race courses as examples
Tanks
Aircraft & airships
Watercraft
Submersibles
Mechs (tanks on legs)
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I-ronically....
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Most of them are SFS legal too! :DI-ronically....
** spoiler omitted **
Yup, which was very interesting!
I made my own (over in the homebrew section) by converting shadowrun stuff over to starfinder mechanics.
You might be able to get some use out of it.