Ok I think its updated now for the APG. Finally did some sample builds.
Looking forward to giving my Dracomancer a spin.
I just have no interest in being focused on wild shape for combat. When I can be a monk and take druid dedication and do better than the druid.
Do tell!
Druid has spells though, so I'll just use those.If you got it, flaunt it.
simple, with amonk i can start with 18STR, so thats +1 to hit/crit
with a monk i hit master in unarmed, and hit expert earlier than druid, thats +2 to hit/crit
wild shape focus lets you get a +2 status bonus to hit/crit, combine that with a actual martial base class, you are now rivaling fighters to hit chance during wild shapes.
take thousand faces feat, wich lets you enlarge, now you have a consistent useful form that never lags behind, because that form is you, just a little bigger, but with a damage/reach/to hit/crit buff.
I just have no interest in being focused on wild shape for combat. When I can be a monk and take druid dedication and do better than the druid.
Do tell!
Druid has spells though, so I'll just use those.If you got it, flaunt it.simple, with amonk i can start with 18STR, so thats +1 to hit/crit
with a monk i hit master in unarmed, and hit expert earlier than druid, thats +2 to hit/crit
wild shape focus lets you get a +2 status bonus to hit/crit, combine that with a actual martial base class, you are now rivaling fighters to hit chance during wild shapes.
take thousand faces feat, wich lets you enlarge, now you have a consistent useful form that never lags behind, because that form is you, just a little bigger, but with a damage/reach/to hit/crit buff.
Would you get weapon specialization damage with the unarmed attacks?
Would you get weapon specialization damage with the unarmed attacks?I just have no interest in being focused on wild shape for combat. When I can be a monk and take druid dedication and do better than the druid.
Do tell!
Druid has spells though, so I'll just use those.If you got it, flaunt it.simple, with amonk i can start with 18STR, so thats +1 to hit/crit
with a monk i hit master in unarmed, and hit expert earlier than druid, thats +2 to hit/crit
wild shape focus lets you get a +2 status bonus to hit/crit, combine that with a actual martial base class, you are now rivaling fighters to hit chance during wild shapes.
take thousand faces feat, wich lets you enlarge, now you have a consistent useful form that never lags behind, because that form is you, just a little bigger, but with a damage/reach/to hit/crit buff.
Yes because it counts as additional damage.
Would you get weapon specialization damage with the unarmed attacks?I just have no interest in being focused on wild shape for combat. When I can be a monk and take druid dedication and do better than the druid.
Do tell!
Druid has spells though, so I'll just use those.If you got it, flaunt it.simple, with amonk i can start with 18STR, so thats +1 to hit/crit
with a monk i hit master in unarmed, and hit expert earlier than druid, thats +2 to hit/crit
wild shape focus lets you get a +2 status bonus to hit/crit, combine that with a actual martial base class, you are now rivaling fighters to hit chance during wild shapes.
take thousand faces feat, wich lets you enlarge, now you have a consistent useful form that never lags behind, because that form is you, just a little bigger, but with a damage/reach/to hit/crit buff.
Yes because it counts as additional damage.
While wildshaped?
While wildshaped?
Would you get weapon specialization damage with the unarmed attacks?Yes because it counts as additional damage.
Yes because of Marks ruling that Additional Damage is not part of the base calculation. Go read this thread Its long and there are people on both sides. But I think this rule is clear.
There are a stack of rules issues listed in my Druid Guide. A couple are just not clear at all, they are contentious. Please understand them before doing any wild shaping.
Humanoid Form doesn't have a battle form, so additional vs. bonus damage is not relevant then anyway. Both work fine, though yes, Mark believes additional damage works in battle forms.
The +2 Status bonus to attack also does not come into play in Humanoid Form because the PC isn't substituting their base attack for a battle form's.
While wildshaped?
Would you get weapon specialization damage with the unarmed attacks?Yes because it counts as additional damage.
Yes because of Marks ruling that Additional Damage is not part of the base calculation. Go read this thread Its long and there are people on both sides. But I think this rule is clear.
There are a stack of rules issues listed in my Druid Guide. A couple are just not clear at all, they are contentious. Please understand them before doing any wild shaping.
That makes wildshaping a little cooler. Right now it seems like such a terrible option. I keep calculating how it works and it isn't very good most the time.
That makes wildshaping a little cooler. Right now it seems like such a terrible option. I keep calculating how it works and it isn't very good most the time.While wildshaped?
Would you get weapon specialization damage with the unarmed attacks?Yes because it counts as additional damage.
Yes because of Marks ruling that Additional Damage is not part of the base calculation. Go read this thread Its long and there are people on both sides. But I think this rule is clear.
There are a stack of rules issues listed in my Druid Guide. A couple are just not clear at all, they are contentious. Please understand them before doing any wild shaping.
Its pretty good. A generalist is OK. But you can really specialize. The best wildshaper is a druid with some form of martial class archetype to pick up a maneuver and an attack of oppourtunity with the reach of the best forms. Or a Martial class - which will have better to hit/damage/maneuvers but will have much more limited forms.
Its pretty good. A generalist is OK. But you can really specialize. The best wildshaper is a druid with some form of martial class archetype to pick up a maneuver and an attack of oppourtunity with the reach of the best forms. Or a Martial class - which will have better to hit/damage/maneuvers but will have much more limited forms.
Still some big drawbacks:
- No way to keep the shapes small. At the end, everything is huge (except for the green man).- No way to expend spell slots while morphed. Expending spell slots to heal self, like 5e has, would've been nice.
With an archetype you can really go for some nice touches. Wildshape druid, beastmaster would be quite an awesome combi.
Humanoid Form doesn't have a battle form, so additional vs. bonus damage is not relevant then anyway. Both work fine, though yes, Mark believes additional damage works in battle forms.
The +2 Status bonus to attack also does not come into play in Humanoid Form because the PC isn't substituting their base attack for a battle form's.
Unless you can show me a page reference I'm going to have to disagree (in terms of thousand faces and enlarge) because I haven't read that anywhere.
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Unless you can show me a page reference I'm going to have to disagree (in terms of thousand faces and enlarge) because I haven't read that anywhere.Humanoid Form doesn't have a battle form, so additional vs. bonus damage is not relevant then anyway. Both work fine, though yes, Mark believes additional damage works in battle forms.
The +2 Status bonus to attack also does not come into play in Humanoid Form because the PC isn't substituting their base attack for a battle form's.
From wild shape: When you choose to use your own attack modifier while polymorphed instead of the form's default attack modifier, you gain a +2 status bonus to your attack rolls....
There is no forms default attack mod with humanoid form.
Its pretty good. A generalist is OK. But you can really specialize. The best wildshaper is a druid with some form of martial class archetype to pick up a maneuver and an attack of oppourtunity with the reach of the best forms. Or a Martial class - which will have better to hit/damage/maneuvers but will have much more limited forms.Still some big drawbacks:
- No way to keep the shapes small. At the end, everything is huge (except for the green man).
- No way to expend spell slots while morphed. Expending spell slots to heal self, like 5e has, would've been nice.With an archetype you can really go for some nice touches. Wildshape druid, beastmaster would be quite an awesome combi.
Both the martial class with normal combat ability, and the druid with his spells have options for when they are stuck in normal size. They aren't as gimped as say a Giant Sized barbarian that can't rage due to space constraints. They only want to be large in combat. Even an Animal Companion can negotiate small spaces for Druids with the Pet Cache spell
Yes it is odd that you can't spend spells in any way while in wild shape form. Hopefully this is something Paizo will add eventually. Its still possible to buff first then heal after, so its not that terrible.
Why do you see Wild Druid with Beastmaster as awesome? Its does work. But you are really struggling to have any feats to do anything extra like AoO or a second Animal Companion
Here is the minimum list you need to have a solid animal companion, and with the prerequisites to get just your best shape Green Man:
1st level WildShape which is free as part of selecting the order.
2nd level Order Explorer for Animal
4th level Mature Animal Companion
6th level
8th level Incredible Companion for Nimble Animal Companion
10th level Soaring Shape
12th level Dragon Shape
14th level Specialized Companion for Daredevil
16th level Specialized Companion for Ambusher
18th level Monstrosity Shape then retrain to Plant Shape at 20th
20th level True Shapeshifter
You have one spare feat this is without buying Form Control or Side by Side
There aren't a lot of options to get more class feats. All I can find are:
Elf Heritage Ancient Elf or Human Ancestry 9 Multitalented, can get you a multiclass archetype - that is not Beastermaster, but maybe if you really want that Attack of Opportunity or Flurry of Blows, its possible
Human Ancestry 1 gives a level 1 class feat - which doesn't help this build at all.
I've used the Druid feats here but how does BeastMaster help? It replaces the Druid feats on a one for one basis, but then gives you a different choice for your last feat. You really want to put a couple of extra feats into both your Animal Companion(s) and your Wild Shape, but you only have one.
What to you do - give up on your second Specilized Companion feat or Not take Plant Form (required for Green Man your only size Medium shape) to give your self that extra feat? A tough call.
Unless you can show me a page reference I'm going to have to disagree (in terms of thousand faces and enlarge) because I haven't read that anywhere.Humanoid Form doesn't have a battle form, so additional vs. bonus damage is not relevant then anyway. Both work fine, though yes, Mark believes additional damage works in battle forms.
The +2 Status bonus to attack also does not come into play in Humanoid Form because the PC isn't substituting their base attack for a battle form's.
From wild shape: When you choose to use your own attack modifier while polymorphed instead of the form's default attack modifier, you gain a +2 status bonus to your attack rolls....
There is no forms default attack mod with humanoid form.
Falco271 is right
Read these
The line "If your unarmed attack modifier is higher, you can use it instead."
Is not in the Humanoid Form Spell. It has no listed attacks at all.
This is what the Wild Shape Spell triggers off to give you +2.
It does work without archetype, but there are few feats available for wildshape that way. To really wildshape, you'd like more then those few feats. Same for AC builds. The free archetype option would give that. Form control, multiple forms as a shaper. Lots of AC options like the extra spells and options from beastmaster.
Swashbuckler dedication is kinda nice for a wild shape druid. Braggart works nice with the charisma builds and you already want 14 dex at least for medium armor and 16 for light. Also gives you attack of opportunity at lvl 12 or later.
It does work without archetype, but there are few feats available for wildshape that way. To really wildshape, you'd like more then those few feats. Same for AC builds. The free archetype option would give that. Form control, multiple forms as a shaper. Lots of AC options like the extra spells and options from beastmaster.
Cool. Handing out a Free Archetype would be fun on occasion. The number of class feats that you get is a key constraint in this game. It's more difficult to get right, when its a limited resource.
However I've had a go at doing a Wild Shaper with Animal Companion, and a few more besides.
All that dedication multiclassing or whatever you call it seems kind of confusing. I'm just starting out! I think I will make a simple Skyborn Tengu Storm Druid, maybe get an animal companion or a leshy familiar, and see what happens. Druid does kind of beg for you to do two orders, which is a kind of multiclassing in itself.Depends on the orders. Wild Order and Animal Order both have a lot more feats to take. Leaf and Storm both play nice with dipping something else though, yeah.
If you want more healing start with Leaf, or if you want more arcane direct damage start with Storm.
Then at level 2 branch into Wild or Animal depending on what you want to do. You don't get their other order spell but that is just not so important.
Oh hey, you rate Shield Block as (***), as if you have to select it. But Druids get it for free at 1st level! Page 132, bottom left.
So it is.
The Cave Pterosaur gets an equivalent.
Not sure what I was thinking by that comment. Deleted
Finally got a chance to read this guide. Nice.
A few things:
I noticed that they still don't have any provision for Gorumite Druids, who in Pathfinder 1st Edition only suffered the effects of wearing metal armor as long as they were wearing it (and for that matter, other Druids didn't have to Atone for doing this, just wait 24 hours).
Skills: Religion: Should say "Identify Divine magic", not "Identify Occult magic".
Archetypes: Marshal: Says "Why should you attack with a weapon as a sorcerer" -- should be edited for Druid.
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Fixed. Except for the metal armour penalty. I can't do anything about that.
I have updated my Druid Guide up to Lost Omens Ancestry Guide
I've split the Ancestries out into a separate Guide as it was just getting insane
They have really improved familiars which makes me value the Leaf Druid even more. I really do struggle to pick between the four Druid orders they are all very good.
There are a lot of really good ancestries out there.
I have finally succumbed to a 5 star rating system.
As always it is just my thoughts. Please let me know when you notice I have missed something good or there is a problem.
Cheers
Only had a brief chance to look, but it seems that the table of contents for the Druid Guide didn't get updated to match Ancestries being moved to a separate guide (and the actual Ancestries section doesn't seem to have a link to the new guide).
Got it thanks
Disturbing Knowledge is rated as blue and 2 stars simutaneously. Which one is it exactly?
Disturbing Knowledge is rated as blue and 2 stars simutaneously. Which one is it exactly?
2 star. It is a novel ability but at two actions it is just not work doing much. Ordinary Demoralize is just better.
Not sure if this is still monitored but I see that the guide is still being updated, so fingers crossed...
You rated Dinosaur Form as blue and I feel like I am missing something. I don't really see the benefit. It seems it is squeezed by Animal Form, which is equivalent up to character level 12 and Dragon Form that takes over at character level 15. Unless you are putting a really high value on Gargantuan size, it seems to provide only marginal benefit over 2 levels. Am I missing something? I'm just planning my druid and I thought I'd skip Dinosaur Form until I saw your guide and now I'm doubting myself.
Skip it if you want. I prefer the reach. If you don't need the other abilities of Dragon form it is better in pure combat.
Skip it if you want. I prefer the reach. If you don't need the other abilities of Dragon form it is better in pure combat.
Thanks! I guess I'll see if I feel the reach is worth it. I may have discounted it too early.