Help my Bard


Advice


Is there any way to make an acting performance Auditory instead of Visual?


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May not be the answer that you want, but according to page 250 of the core {under the skill section} Perform {Act} as the Auditory, Linguistic, and Visual traits. So its got both Auditory and Visual traits to it.

There does not seem to be a way to remove or exchange a traits in this, at least from an assured mechanical stance. However in the description of Performance again on Page 250 there is this line "When you use an action that utilizes the Performance skill, it gains one or more traits relevant to the type of performance. The GM might change these depending on the circumstances, but the most common performance based traits are listed below."

This means you could have some wiggle room on what traits are applied to a performance, depending on the DM's allowance. Now, from a very quick google, a lot of types of acting depends on body motion and body language {way to convey to the audience and such}. However, you could also try saying your acting as a 'Ghost' or something else which has a reason not to be visually represented. However, like I said, its going to largely up to DM fiat.

You could also try saying you are the 'Narrator' {many plays have have a off stage person setting the scene, background, prologues, ect} but you DM may rule this is more in the territory of Orate.


That sounds like the description for Unusual Composition. The benefit is more than you think, as it allows to hide the performance and stealth with it, plus a range of other side benefits.


I'm just trying to figure out a way to use Acting while invisible to buff my allies with Inspire Courage, so I could make my Acting using Inspire Courage an auditory effect? Because Acting says pantomiming, puppetry etc they all seem visual to me?


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Well, your Inspire Courage has Verbal components unless you have Unusual Composition, so you don’t really have a choice.


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As I mentioned, under the Skill on page 250, it Acting generally as Auditory, Visual and Linguistic traits, but it really up to the DM. {you may act that you are the 'Voice of Courage', that when people have the idea to run a save there own hide, you are that voice in the back of there head, telling they fight for something greater. Idk, whatever may work for your DM. Ie you could spin any sort of Acting to be Auditory only.}

However, Inspire Courage only requires the use of a Verbal component. Now as a Composition Cantrip, you do use a Performance for it {ie you could use Acting} and the spell would pick up traits of that performance. However, with just regards to Inspire Courage, you could use any Performance, even one that you are horrible at, as how well you perform as no effect on the spell itself. So, you could just tell an inspiring story instead.

However there may be RP reasons why, and has Ediwir said, Unusual Composition can change any of the Visual to Auditory, solving the problem. Now, I have not played with Unusual Composition to know how beneficial it is, but I do trust Ediwir when he says it has other benefits as well, and there could be Mechanical reasons I'm missing as well.


Siro wrote:

As I mentioned, under the Skill on page 250, it Acting generally as Auditory, Visual and Linguistic traits, but it really up to the DM. {you may act that you are the 'Voice of Courage', that when people have the idea to run a save there own hide, you are that voice in the back of there head, telling they fight for something greater. Idk, whatever may work for your DM. Ie you could spin any sort of Acting to be Auditory only.}

However, Inspire Courage only requires the use of a Verbal component. Now as a Composition Cantrip, you do use a Performance for it {ie you could use Acting} and the spell would pick up traits of that performance. However, with just regards to Inspire Courage, you could use any Performance, even one that you are horrible at, as how well you perform as no effect on the spell itself. So, you could just tell an inspiring story instead.

However there may be RP reasons why, and has Ediwir said, Unusual Composition can change any of the Visual to Auditory, solving the problem. Now, I have not played with Unusual Composition to know how beneficial it is, but I do trust Ediwir when he says it has other benefits as well, and there could be Mechanical reasons I'm missing as well.

Interesting, I chose Acting (Virtuosic Performer) but your saying I could use for example Singing? (with no Virtuosic Performer bonus of course). I thought I was bound to just one type of Performance and couldn't alter from it.


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Nope, unlike PF1, your Proficiency in Performance is not tied to one type, but to every type of Performance. This means, in terms of Proficiency anyways, your just as good of a Singer as you are an Actor. You can even see this in the Character sheet, as under the skills, the Lore options have a blank space to fill out what type of Lore it is {as there are many options} but for Performance, there is no blank space, because there is no multiple option distinction. {this is the same for Crafting btw, you are just as good of a shoe maker as you are a metal worker.}


Siro wrote:

May not be the answer that you want, but according to page 250 of the core {under the skill section} Perform {Act} as the Auditory, Linguistic, and Visual traits. So its got both Auditory and Visual traits to it.

There does not seem to be a way to remove or exchange a traits in this, at least from an assured mechanical stance. However in the description of Performance again on Page 250 there is this line "When you use an action that utilizes the Performance skill, it gains one or more traits relevant to the type of performance. The GM might change these depending on the circumstances, but the most common performance based traits are listed below."

This means you could have some wiggle room on what traits are applied to a performance, depending on the DM's allowance. Now, from a very quick google, a lot of types of acting depends on body motion and body language {way to convey to the audience and such}. However, you could also try saying your acting as a 'Ghost' or something else which has a reason not to be visually represented. However, like I said, its going to largely up to DM fiat.

You could also try saying you are the 'Narrator' {many plays have have a off stage person setting the scene, background, prologues, ect} but you DM may rule this is more in the territory of Orate.

You sir are very creative, could you recommend another example of an auditory Acting performance? I will definitely try out the Ghost one for sure!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Comedy. Limericks. Buffoonery.


Gorbacz wrote:
Comedy. Limericks. Buffoonery.

Those don't fall under Acting unfortunately :(

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Why? Monologue is a form of acting, too.


Monologues are part of Oratory, for me.

If I was the DM, it would be a clear no. I would allow an acting performance without sound, but not an acting performance without being seen.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
SuperBidi wrote:

Monologues are part of Oratory, for me.

If I was the DM, it would be a clear no. I would allow an acting performance without sound, but not an acting performance without being seen.

So, people who star in audio plays (be it radio or stuff like Big Finish's Pathfinder audio plays) aren't acting? :)


Gorbacz wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:

Monologues are part of Oratory, for me.

If I was the DM, it would be a clear no. I would allow an acting performance without sound, but not an acting performance without being seen.

So, people who star in audio plays (be it radio or stuff like Big Finish's Pathfinder audio plays) aren't acting? :)

I can't answer your question, I haven't heard any "audio play" or I don't know what you mean by that description.

Still, my answer is certainly no. You can't be a "radio actor".
Anyway, for me, it's too much of rule bending to my taste. Acting is visual. If you want to make an audible Performance, you have a lot of choice, so why bending acting instead of using another type of Performance?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
SuperBidi wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:

Monologues are part of Oratory, for me.

If I was the DM, it would be a clear no. I would allow an acting performance without sound, but not an acting performance without being seen.

So, people who star in audio plays (be it radio or stuff like Big Finish's Pathfinder audio plays) aren't acting? :)

I can't answer your question, I haven't heard any "audio play" or I don't know what you mean by that description.

Still, my answer is certainly no. You can't be a "radio actor".
Anyway, for me, it's too much of rule bending to my taste. Acting is visual. If you want to make an audible Performance, you have a lot of choice, so why bending acting instead of using another type of Performance?

I think you need to broaden your cultural horizons a bit before you pass judgment that acting requires a visual element. You could start, I dunno, with a classic.


Gorbacz wrote:
I think you need to broaden your cultural horizons a bit before you pass judgment that acting requires a visual element. You could start, I dunno, with a classic.

I don't say that there are no rare cases where people get to be called actors even when doing purely audio performances, I say that if you use that argument to remove the visual component of a performance, you are bending the rules far too much to my taste. And I'm pretty sure I would not be the only DM to refuse it.

Also, if you want to remove components, you have silent music:
Would you allow it as a DM?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
SuperBidi wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
I think you need to broaden your cultural horizons a bit before you pass judgment that acting requires a visual element. You could start, I dunno, with a classic.

I don't say that there are no rare cases where people get to be called actors even when doing purely audio performances, I say that if you use that argument to remove the visual component of a performance, you are bending the rules far too much to my taste. And I'm pretty sure I would not be the only DM to refuse it.

Also, if you want to remove components, you have silent music:
Would you allow it as a DM?

I would, because then a PC who is blind for whatever reason might still benefit from an Acting performance even if they're not able to see it. Which is what, by my count, would happen if they could only hear the actor speaking.

Of course, this does overlap with Oratory - you could call somebody speaking part of a play both as a feat of oratory or actorship, but I belong to the esoteric school of not blocking off PC options for flimsy reasons.


Well, Atalius' case is not one where a PC is blocked, it's a case where a PC wants to benefit from a feat bonus on acting while being invisible.
Of course, if it was just some crazy character concept with no link to the rules, I would certainly go in your direction. But if the goal is to get a numerical advantage out of it, I'm no more in.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

So, for Inspire Courage, the only reason you'd need to make a Performance check is if you were juicing it with Inspire Heroics or Lingering Composition. Neither of them say which sort of Performance check you need to make, but both of them are Verbal free actions with no auditory or visual tags. Given that, I don't *think* it matters what sort of Perform check you make for them, so I'd let someone use whatever Performance they are best at due to a magic item / Virtuosic Performer skill feat. But for the actual Inspire Courage, that does need to be verbalized so your party can get the benefit.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
SuperBidi wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:

Monologues are part of Oratory, for me.

If I was the DM, it would be a clear no. I would allow an acting performance without sound, but not an acting performance without being seen.

So, people who star in audio plays (be it radio or stuff like Big Finish's Pathfinder audio plays) aren't acting? :)

I can't answer your question, I haven't heard any "audio play" or I don't know what you mean by that description.

Still, my answer is certainly no. You can't be a "radio actor".
Anyway, for me, it's too much of rule bending to my taste. Acting is visual. If you want to make an audible Performance, you have a lot of choice, so why bending acting instead of using another type of Performance?

Maybe you have heard of voice actors? Maybe you have even seen an animated movie some day?


So...the cantrip only has verbal components.

I don't see a reason why you couldn't do a performance that is only audible and have it work. Seems just fine. You just need to use a performance that isn't visual, I would say Perform oratory should work just fine.

You just wont get the bonus from Virtuosic Performer.


Zaister wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:

Monologues are part of Oratory, for me.

If I was the DM, it would be a clear no. I would allow an acting performance without sound, but not an acting performance without being seen.

So, people who star in audio plays (be it radio or stuff like Big Finish's Pathfinder audio plays) aren't acting? :)

I can't answer your question, I haven't heard any "audio play" or I don't know what you mean by that description.

Still, my answer is certainly no. You can't be a "radio actor".
Anyway, for me, it's too much of rule bending to my taste. Acting is visual. If you want to make an audible Performance, you have a lot of choice, so why bending acting instead of using another type of Performance?
Maybe you have heard of voice actors? Maybe you have even seen an animated movie some day?

Yes, I have seen animated movies. They are visual as far as I can tell. And the voice without the movie is kind of useless. Thanks for validating my point :)


Claxon wrote:

So...the cantrip only has verbal components.

I don't see a reason why you couldn't do a performance that is only audible and have it work. Seems just fine. You just need to use a performance that isn't visual, I would say Perform oratory should work just fine.

You just wont get the bonus from Virtuosic Performer.

Yes but trying to get the Virtuosic Performer is precisely what I'm trying to do :)


Atalius wrote:
Claxon wrote:

So...the cantrip only has verbal components.

I don't see a reason why you couldn't do a performance that is only audible and have it work. Seems just fine. You just need to use a performance that isn't visual, I would say Perform oratory should work just fine.

You just wont get the bonus from Virtuosic Performer.

Yes but trying to get the Virtuosic Performer is precisely what I'm trying to do :)

I mean, it's a +1 bonus. You would need to retrain the feat to be Oratory instead of what you have now. If that's not an option well, it's not the end of the world to not get that bonus.


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Atalius wrote:

You sir are very creative, could you recommend another example of an auditory Acting performance? I will definitely try out the Ghost one for sure!

Why thank you but I ain't that creative, just slightly weaselly when it comes to things like this. You could be a spirit {thought I guess that just ghost without having to say 'Boo' as much} You could act as a voice from a deity, as there is good reason in PF why someone would not except to see a physical representation of a God in most places {for Inspire Courage purposes, choose a Deity your group generally likes, as its generally encouraging when the voice of God says you can do this. Alternatively you can choose one the group hates, whom tells them they can't do it, thereby encouraging them to do it out of spite.}

Though I guess the easiest way to come up with a lot of things is to look at the Bestiary, and find creatures whom are generally invisible {ie are under a permeate 'Invisibility' like effect, or has 'Invisibility' as an at will spell, creatures which can camouflage to there surroundings, ect. Creatures which not being seen would not be to far off the mark. } From a basic search= Choral, Balisse, Astral Deva, Ghalele, Greater Barghest, Cacodaemon, Quasit, Shenhazian, Imp, Faerie Dragon, Djinni, Green Hag, Night Hag, Lamia Matriach, Nilith, Poltergeist, Grig, Pixie, and Invisible Stalkers, all have a from of either permeate or at will Invisibility, and have the ability to speak in Common, either through knowing the language, or through 'Tongues'. There may be other creatures which utilize a less magical, or different forms of concealment as well.

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