Dispel Magic

[Atalius]

As a Bard how essential is it to have Dispel Magic in one's repertoire? I see if you want to dispel higher level magic you basically need to make it a Signature spell which is a pretty valuable thing. Is this something a Bard can pass on?

[Alyran]

I'd say it's technically no more essential than any other spell. You just need to be prepared to deal with persistent magical effects in another way. I find breaking things to be pretty effective.

[Siro]

It also depends on party composition a bit. If you got someone else that can prepare it when needed (ie Wizard ect) for when you going into that ancient Elven tomb, or going out to deal with a certain monster, then it’s not has needed. If you have Esoteric Polymath feat, then you can also prepare it yourself one days when you think you will need it.

That being said, the Bard character I have been playing so far does have it has one of his signature spells. Has it been used every session? No. But the times it has been used, it’s been very beneficial in dispelling problematic effects, turning what could have been a major problem, into more of a annoyance. Now, in fairness, some of these problems may have been solved through other avenues, we just never really looked because we already had an answer. On the other hand, it was comforting to know we had somewhat of an off button to weird magical stuff, and our actions may have been different without this, even if it did not end up being used all the time, for better or for worse.

[Atalius]

Anyone know what types of things are most common to Dispel? I'm seriously considering it to be a signature spell, but just not sure if it's too much of a situational spell.

[Queaux]

At levels where armor and weapons become more and more important, dispelling those on enemies becomes more and more effective. That's going to be one of the most effective ways to reduce humanoid enemy effectiveness.

[lemeres]

Enchantments are always a concern. And Blindness is a good 3rd level spell with a chunky duration and crippling condition.

We don't have very good curses that are at levels where I'd say they are 'common'. But I have little doubt that we will eventually get those.

Generally speaking, dispel magic is situational.... but the situations where it applies tend to be ones where a spell is debuffing our incapacitating your party to the ground. So it tends to be a "better to have it and not need it" affair.

Nice to have as an option, but I would perfectly understand putting it off until you have more spells per day at that level.

[SuperBidi]

Atalius wrote:

Anyone know what types of things are most common to Dispel? I'm seriously considering it to be a signature spell, but just not sure if it's too much of a situational spell.

Dispel Magic is one of the rare spells that has been greatly improved over PF1. Casting it with one level higher than the spell you want to dispel trivializes the counteract check.

In my opinion, it's a no-brainer. Flying enemy, invisible enemy, non persistant walls, annoying debuffs, there are so many situations where being able to counteract with 95% chance of success completely disrupts enemy's strategy.
And then there are the utility cases where removing magic is usefull for the story to progress.
Also, having it as a Signature spell allows you to cast it at its most efficient level. In fact, I don't see much spells to take as signature ones at level 2. Dispel Magic is a staple for me.

[rooneg]

In addition to what people have already said, Dispel Magic also tends to be useful for dealing with magical effects that are written in to adventures. You know, magical traps or bits of terrain that do bad stuff to the PCs. My Sorcerer in Age of Ashes has not regretted having it as a Signature Spell.

[coriolis]

Queaux wrote:

At levels where armor and weapons become more and more important, dispelling those on enemies becomes more and more effective. That's going to be one of the most effective ways to reduce humanoid enemy effectiveness.

Note that dispel magic can only target unattended items, so this strategy won't work.

[SuperBidi]

Spell effects and unattended items, so it doesn't work on magical traps or bits of terrain either.

[HammerJack]

Magical traps often specifically list dispel magic as one of the ways to disable them, in the hazard statistics, with spell level and counteract DC.

So Dispel Magic does work there. Specific vs general, and all.

[SuperBidi]

What I mean is it's not RAW.
Which can be a bit annoying: if there is no information you can use Dispel Magic on a trap, you could easily overlook it by thinking it doesn't work per RAW so it's not worth the try...

[Atalius]

SuperBidi wrote:

Atalius wrote:

Anyone know what types of things are most common to Dispel? I'm seriously considering it to be a signature spell, but just not sure if it's too much of a situational spell.

Dispel Magic is one of the rare spells that has been greatly improved over PF1. Casting it with one level higher than the spell you want to dispel trivializes the counteract check.

In my opinion, it's a no-brainer. Flying enemy, invisible enemy, non persistant walls, annoying debuffs, there are so many situations where being able to counteract with 95% chance of success completely disrupts enemy's strategy.
And then there are the utility cases where removing magic is usefull for the story to progress.
Also, having it as a Signature spell allows you to cast it at its most efficient level. In fact, I don't see much spells to take as signature ones at level 2. Dispel Magic is a staple for me.

For my signature 2 slot its competing with Calm Emotions.

[SuperBidi]

I prefer to swap this one, as I only need it at the maximum level. Dispel Magic, on the contrary, is a spell you need at each and every level.

[Atalius]

Is there any way of knowing the spell level of the effect your trying to Dispel? Or do you just generally cast Dispel Magic at your highest level to help give yourself the best chance of success?

[Kyrone]

Atalius wrote:

Is there any way of knowing the spell level of the effect your trying to Dispel? Or do you just generally cast Dispel Magic at your highest level to help give yourself the best chance of success?

If you see the casting and have the spell in your repertoire you automatically know the spell and the lvl of the spell and can adjust accordingly, in exploration you can just recall knowledge, magical effects of monsters however you will most likely have to use the highest spell slot.

[SuperBidi]

Kyrone wrote:

Atalius wrote:

Is there any way of knowing the spell level of the effect your trying to Dispel? Or do you just generally cast Dispel Magic at your highest level to help give yourself the best chance of success?

If you see the casting and have the spell in your repertoire you automatically know the spell and the lvl of the spell and can adjust accordingly, in exploration you can just recall knowledge, magical effects of monsters however you will most likely have to use the highest spell slot.

You can only dispel spells and items, not magical effects of monsters.

There's also the Recognize Spell feat that you can use. And seing an effect very similar to one of the spells you know can give you a good idea of what spell it is (if it's a spell).