All the instruments in the CRB require two hands to play. Which makes sense. Other than a trumpet, I can't think of an instrument that plays well one handed.
This means that a bard playing an instrument isn't going to be using a weapon at the same time. Which is not as disastrous as you might think since all the bardic composition spells are verbal only. But it's limiting for sure.
So that's the question: can a bard play an instrument and wield a weapon at the same time? I'm assuming 'no' but I might be missing something.
All the instruments in the CRB require two hands to play. Which makes sense. Other than a trumpet, I can't think of an instrument that plays well one handed.
A diatonic harmonica with a neck holder doesn't require any hands. There are lots of techniques that do require hands, but you can still make decent music with none.
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Some simple wind instruments can be held in one hand and some percussion instruments can be held on one's hip while played w/ one hand. Arguments could be made for more, i.e. "one-man band" contraptions.
What I'm wondering, given the importance of "hands" in PF2, is what's the mechanical reasoning behind listing only 2-handed instruments, especially since singing (et al) requires no hands. Is the item bonus to Perform meant to be cost-intensive perhaps due to it impacting potentially so many abilities?
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What I'm wondering, given the importance of "hands" in PF2, is what's the mechanical reasoning behind listing only 2-handed instruments, especially since singing (et al) requires no hands. Is the item bonus to Perform meant to be cost-intensive perhaps due to it impacting potentially so many abilities?
Yes I strongly suspect it is.
Singing doesn't count as an instrument in terms of the bard spell component substitution - that requires an 'instrument' that "takes at least one of your hands to do so" (CRB p96).
If it was intended for instruments to be played with one hand or no hand I'd assume they'd be in the equipment section. They're not (except the Horn of Blasting). Plus it's obviously not a desirable result to force bards to use harmonicas with neck holders to be optimal. I struggle to imagine that's intended.
It seems to me that the intention is to provide three options to bards, each with trade-offs. The trade-offs seem balanced enough to me, but I could easily be missing something:
Option 1: instrument in combat. Full spellcasting but no melee. Maestro's instrument bonuses available. Unlike PF 1 Bards are full spellcasters now, so this makes more sense in 2e than 1e.
Option 2: weapon in one hand, empty other hand. Full spellcasting, no maestro's instrument. Horn of Blasting as an option (see below).
Option 3: both hands full with eg: sword + shield. Spellcasting except for material components. No instrument bonuses available.
I just noticed that the Horn of Blasting is a 1-handed instrument that grants a +2 bonus to Perform. That 1-handedness and a perform bonus makes it very desirable for weapon-wielding bards. If you want a +3 bonus you'd need to go Maestro's Instrument +3, which is 2-h.
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Ya or just bypass the instrument altogether and keep your weapon in one hand and have the other hand empty (for Material component spells) while wearing a Persona Mask, there's your Performance bonus item.
If it was intended for instruments to be played with one hand or no hand I'd assume they'd be in the equipment section. They're not (except the Horn of Blasting). Plus it's obviously not a desirable result to force bards to use harmonicas with neck holders to be optimal. I struggle to imagine that's intended.
Bards obviously can't use a neck holder to help cast spells.
Because you’re a bard, you can usually play an instrument for spells requiring somatic or material components, as long as it takes at least one of your hands to do so.
But you said you couldn't think of a musical instrument that could be played well one-handed. A harmonica is a real-world instrument that can be played one- handed or even no-handed.
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Singing doesn't count as an instrument in terms of the bard spell component substitution - that requires an 'instrument' that "takes at least one of your hands to do so" (CRB p96).
As I understand, you only need to hold the instrument in 1 hand (something like a focus), you dont need to play it.
Intriguing thought! The use of the word play makes me think that's not the case. But you're correct that an object used as a focus is typically just held. So maybe.
From the CRB (bard p96):
Because you’re a bard, you can usually play an instrument for spells requiring somatic or material components, as long as it takes at least one of your hands to do so. If you use an instrument, you don’t need a spell component pouch or another hand free. You can usually also play an instrument for spells requiring verbal components, instead of speaking.
All the instruments in the CRB require two hands to play.
Not true: Horn of Blasting [Usage held in 1 hand]. "It can be played as an instrument, granting a +2 item bonus to your Performance check."
In real life recorders and ocarinas are made for one handed use and several hand percussion instruments are one handed to start with like clappers, tambourines and castanets.
PS: even a leaf can be played as an instrument with one hand.
All the instruments in the CRB require two hands to play.Not true: Horn of Blasting [Usage held in 1 hand]. "It can be played as an instrument, granting a +2 item bonus to your Performance check."
Yes, I mentioned that multiple times as the exception. It grants a +2 to perform as you say. The maestro's instruments go up to +3 perform, but are listed as 2 hands.
Yes, I mentioned that multiple times as the exception. It grants a +2 to perform as you say. The maestro's instruments go up to +3 perform, but are listed as 2 hands.All the instruments in the CRB require two hands to play.Not true: Horn of Blasting [Usage held in 1 hand]. "It can be played as an instrument, granting a +2 item bonus to your Performance check."
Ah, I see now. It wasn't in your first post and I missed your second post somehow. My bad, carry on. ;)
I was looking into chimes, looks like the ancient equvalant of a hand chime is a hand bell.
The book specifies a set, meaning two or more, but you needn't play more than one at a time.
The basic, non-magical trumpet would also be one handed, keys didn't come into use till later.
A sturdy horn should make for a working club,thus at least an improvised weapon.
A drum, played with empty hands, gauntlets, clubs, light maces or saps seem like a decent choice.
I was looking into chimes, looks like the ancient equvalant of a hand chime is a hand bell.
The book specifies a set, meaning two or more, but you needn't play more than one at a time.
The basic, non-magical trumpet would also be one handed, keys didn't come into use till later.
A sturdy horn should make for a working club,thus at least an improvised weapon.A drum, played with empty hands, gauntlets, clubs, light maces or saps seem like a decent choice.
Saps, maybe. Very maybe.
Drumsticks like you'd use on a snare drum or tomtom look about the size of a sturdy wand. You're not getting damage out of those unless you poke your enemy in the eye with one. Anything sturdy enough to deliver lethal damage like a club or mace is going to result in a ruined drum, I think.
And no, I'm not looking at massive drum hammers. If we're talking something a bard could 'play one-handed' it's probably not a tympani or gong or freestanding taiko drum.
Although now I imagine a bard beating a huge bass drum Energizer-bunny-style with a slogan on the side while trying to cast some sort of crowd attitude adjusting spell ...
Maybe have a hireling/summon/familiar drag the gong adjacent to you each round?
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A focus is an object that funnels the magical energy of the spell. The spell gains the manipulate trait and requires you to either have a free hand to retrieve the focus listed in the spell or already be holding the focus in your hand. As part of Casting the Spell, you retrieve the focus (if necessary), manipulate it, and can stow it again if you so choose.
Core Rulebook pg. 303
If I am reading it right you don't have to have it out just a free hand to retrieve it and you can stow it for free once the spell is done. The only problem I see is you can't have a weapon out at the same time but spell takes more than one action usually so I don't think it's a big problem.
For what it's worth, the artwork suggests at least someone thinks you can one-hand a horn (Bard multiclass, page 222) or flute (Rogue multiclass, page 229).