Other potential classes?


Advanced Player’s Guide Playtest General Discussion


I'm just wondering if there are going to be other classes added to the APG besides the 4 listed? I know that with my group the Warlock, Gunslinger, Cavalier, and Summoner are all popular to play. So far I am liking everything that Paizo is putting out, but would really like these other popular classes to be available for 2e.

Liberty's Edge

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Daranzerch wrote:
I'm just wondering if there are going to be other classes added to the APG besides the 4 listed? I know that with my group the Warlock, Gunslinger, Cavalier, and Summoner are all popular to play. So far I am liking everything that Paizo is putting out, but would really like these other popular classes to be available for 2e.

Other Classes will certainly come eventually, but I think the chances of an unannounced and thus un-playtested additional Class getting added to the APG are at right about 0%.


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No other classes for the APG otherwise they would have been part of the playtest

For your list:

Cavalier - unlikely to be a class of it’s own. Was an archetype in the playtest

Gunslinger - I believe it is unlikely an entire glass will be designed round the use of one (type of) weapon. This might even have been said somewhere

Summoner - they have said this is going to need more time and background of support material before designing. Summer 2021 will probably be the absolute earliest

Warlock - A DND class that will never appear in pathfinder. Closest will be whenever they release Kineticist perhaps with a oracle/witch multiclass for mysterious/uncontrolled power source (or vice versa of course )

So in summary no further classes and of the ones you mentioned only one is likely to be one


Lanathar wrote:

No other classes for the APG otherwise they would have been part of the playtest

For your list: ...
So in summary no further classes and of the ones you mentioned only one is likely to be one

Thank you very much for the feedback.


There's a slim chance Gunslinger or Cavalier might be in the APG as archetypes. The original playtest had Cavalier as one and Gunslingers would only need a line of feats for gunplay which could be attached to a current class (or the upcoming Swashbuckler which will have similar dynamics to Grit).


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

But now that they have posted the product page for the Advanced Player's Guide -- they do have some interesting enhancements for the existing classes. You can see a summary of them here.


Wow thanks for this

And dragon disciples for all! Wow


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Oh wow, I didn't realize there was that much info available.

This confirms a lot of speculation : cavalier and vigilante as well as classic PrCs coming back as multiclass archetypes, planetouched and similar as "global" heritages,...
A bit surprised to see the Champions of Evil coming out first, but I guess villains need building...

A lot of good looking stuff in there.


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Castilliano wrote:
There's a slim chance Gunslinger or Cavalier might be in the APG as archetypes. The original playtest had Cavalier as one and Gunslingers would only need a line of feats for gunplay which could be attached to a current class (or the upcoming Swashbuckler which will have similar dynamics to Grit).

I believe they've mentioned they'd like to playtest guns. (One of a couple reasons they weren't in core; they needed to be tested after the AC rules were finalized.)

Silver Crusade

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Oh yeah CE Champions of Ragathiel *starts the flaming chainsword* burn, maim, kill, burn, maim, kill

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Gorbacz wrote:
Oh yeah CE Champions of Ragathiel *starts the flaming chainsword* burn, maim, kill, burn, maim, kill

Ragathiel is LG, NG and LN. . . and hates his demon daddy and kin so I don't think he will have any Anti-Paladins

Silver Crusade

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Devil daddy.

Silver Crusade

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Ha ha, foolish mortals, you'll now argue about whether it's devil daddy or daemon daddy while Big R sharpens his flaming chainsword and prepares for the day when he drops his meek facade and goodness and takes his blade to reality.

There will be nothing but an apocalypse of blood left after he's done with your universe.

(Luckily for you, Asmdoeus has a contingency plan: release the krak...Rovagug and watch the two duke it out while taking bets and selling snacks)

Silver Crusade

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Fine, fallen angel daddy?


Given that much classes + 4 new ones, i would prefer more archetypes instead of classes.


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Nyerkh wrote:


A bit surprised to see the Champions of Evil coming out first, but I guess villains need building...

I am not surprised at all, it is a lot easier to design good or evil champions than it is neutral ones, in much the same way aasimar and tieflings were easier to come up with than aphorites and duskwalkers and ganzi.

When it is a class that is about having very strong belief and conviction and championing those beliefs, it is easier to design around those beliefs if they are on the extreme ends of the spectrum.

I think neutral champions will come eventually (based on what developers have stated, it is unlikely that true neutral will be a champion of balance though, so if it exists at all, it would probably be a Pharasman champion).


I will hold out the dream for a proper War Priest one day, one that doesn't completely miss the point like the Cleric in name only version. (reduced casting, interesting per day abilities instead, access to combat feats etc) and hopefully avoids the feat tax/trap that is the MC archetypes.

As an aside Gorbacz is right to mock Ragathiel being LG... Unless we are getting a more offense orientated Champion ofc, then the Angel of kill em all would be in good company (seriously am I the only one who finds champion being forced into the role of tank weird? They are the bloody vengeful fist of the Deity, not the newspaper of nope, the art and story of the class is generally them fighting the big gribbly alone in a duel. Not herding a wall of peasant infantry in front of them to get the best use out of Retributive Strike.


Tremaine wrote:


As an aside Gorbacz is right to mock Ragathiel being LG... Unless we are getting a more offense orientated Champion ofc, then the Angel of kill em all would be in good company (seriously am I the only one who finds champion being forced into the role of tank weird? They are the bloody vengeful fist of the Deity, not the newspaper of nope, the art and story of the class is generally them fighting the big gribbly alone in a duel. Not herding a wall of peasant infantry in front of them to get the best use out of Retributive Strike.

It is all about balance.

If you want to solo you can rely, by lvl 6, on aoo as anybody else.

Being able to use the champion reaction preventing the damage on yourself would ne broken ( it is already too good, especially the retributive strike, and I hope as a champion it will be eventually nerfed giving penalty to it like the exalt, for example ) and selseless, since it is something meant to protect other people.

The balance is set, and during a Journey you will be mostly with a party, and because so, able to protect your friends.

If you don’t want to play the tank role go for divine ally 2h weapon ( you will have 2 extra AC cause you are a champion ) and for AOO. Reach weapons will help you to trigger aoo, and athletic maneuvers aswell.


HumbleGamer wrote:
Tremaine wrote:


As an aside Gorbacz is right to mock Ragathiel being LG... Unless we are getting a more offense orientated Champion ofc, then the Angel of kill em all would be in good company (seriously am I the only one who finds champion being forced into the role of tank weird? They are the bloody vengeful fist of the Deity, not the newspaper of nope, the art and story of the class is generally them fighting the big gribbly alone in a duel. Not herding a wall of peasant infantry in front of them to get the best use out of Retributive Strike.

It is all about balance.

If you want to solo you can rely, by lvl 6, on aoo as anybody else.

Being able to use the champion reaction preventing the damage on yourself would ne broken ( it is already too good, especially the retributive strike, and I hope as a champion it will be eventually nerfed giving penalty to it like the exalt, for example ) and selseless, since it is something meant to protect other people.

The balance is set, and during a Journey you will be mostly with a party, and because so, able to protect your friends.

If you don’t want to play the tank role go for divine ally 2h weapon ( you will have 2 extra AC cause you are a champion ) and for AOO. Reach weapons will help you to trigger aoo, and athletic maneuvers aswell.

What nerf do you think is needed specifically? Just the paladin one? What would you suggest?


Lanathar wrote:
HumbleGamer wrote:
Tremaine wrote:


As an aside Gorbacz is right to mock Ragathiel being LG... Unless we are getting a more offense orientated Champion ofc, then the Angel of kill em all would be in good company (seriously am I the only one who finds champion being forced into the role of tank weird? They are the bloody vengeful fist of the Deity, not the newspaper of nope, the art and story of the class is generally them fighting the big gribbly alone in a duel. Not herding a wall of peasant infantry in front of them to get the best use out of Retributive Strike.

It is all about balance.

If you want to solo you can rely, by lvl 6, on aoo as anybody else.

Being able to use the champion reaction preventing the damage on yourself would ne broken ( it is already too good, especially the retributive strike, and I hope as a champion it will be eventually nerfed giving penalty to it like the exalt, for example ) and selseless, since it is something meant to protect other people.

The balance is set, and during a Journey you will be mostly with a party, and because so, able to protect your friends.

If you don’t want to play the tank role go for divine ally 2h weapon ( you will have 2 extra AC cause you are a champion ) and for AOO. Reach weapons will help you to trigger aoo, and athletic maneuvers aswell.

What nerf do you think is needed specifically? Just the paladin one? What would you suggest?

Just the paladin one.

To me, a -2 on the attack could do to the job. But I am still try it out.

Currently at low lvls I have 2 attacks per round with no map, and 1 with -4/5 depends my weapon.

Compared to the other champion's reactions seems way too strong.

Also because of the free step given by the ranged reprisal, which if needed is gold for a melee in terms of action saving.

All suggestions accepted.


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HumbleGamer wrote:
Given that much classes + 4 new ones, i would prefer more archetypes instead of classes.

Couldn't disagree more, the archetype/multiclassing system is pure awful. I'd prefer more classes, the ones we have so far are all cookie cutter and completely unoriginal. The martial classes are pretty much all the same, and the caster classes are pretty much the same.

I want original classes, ones that break the mold. Just my .02, I don't claim to speak for anyone other than myself.


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HeHateMe wrote:
HumbleGamer wrote:
Given that much classes + 4 new ones, i would prefer more archetypes instead of classes.

Couldn't disagree more, the archetype/multiclassing system is pure awful. I'd prefer more classes, the ones we have so far are all cookie cutter and completely unoriginal. The martial classes are pretty much all the same, and the caster classes are pretty much the same.

I want original classes, ones that break the mold. Just my .02, I don't claim to speak for anyone other than myself.

I understand and I do agree that it is not the best deal, but that's also the reason they should work on it to solve the issues.

For example, the first lvl of any class seema a class feat less for your character ( a tribute to pay in order to join another class ).

On the other hand, the fact you can enhance your class by taking some perks is good. I see way more balance if I compare this to pathfinder or a 3.5.

To only work on classes instead of trying to fix the whole system is not, imo, the best they could do.


HumbleGamer wrote:
Tremaine wrote:


As an aside Gorbacz is right to mock Ragathiel being LG... Unless we are getting a more offense orientated Champion ofc, then the Angel of kill em all would be in good company (seriously am I the only one who finds champion being forced into the role of tank weird? They are the bloody vengeful fist of the Deity, not the newspaper of nope, the art and story of the class is generally them fighting the big gribbly alone in a duel. Not herding a wall of peasant infantry in front of them to get the best use out of Retributive Strike.

It is all about balance.

If you want to solo you can rely, by lvl 6, on aoo as anybody else.

Being able to use the champion reaction preventing the damage on yourself would ne broken ( it is already too good, especially the retributive strike, and I hope as a champion it will be eventually nerfed giving penalty to it like the exalt, for example ) and selseless, since it is something meant to protect other people.

The balance is set, and during a Journey you will be mostly with a party, and because so, able to protect your friends.

If you don’t want to play the tank role go for divine ally 2h weapon ( you will have 2 extra AC cause you are a champion ) and for AOO. Reach weapons will help you to trigger aoo, and athletic maneuvers aswell.

. I wasn't clear. I find the Champions reactions morally repugnant, and do not want them at all.

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