What is the optimal 4 player party?


Advice

Dark Archive

I'm quite interested in where the power level sits with Pathfinder 2E. in 1E from the APG onwards there were some clear winners if you wanted to create a party capable of slaying encounters well above the expected CR.

I am curious about what you lot think is *the* party if your goal was to smash powerful encounters. For the excercise, the primary goal is fighting monsters. Traps, skills and roleplaying I can already see the rough power level of parties. I'm very keen to understand what the upper end of combat optimisation looks like.

Champions with Flickmaces welcome, bring me your powerful options!


I'm not sure about a whole party (largely because I've only skimmed a few of the classes that I don't intend to play), but I'll propose a Bard as an essential part. Powerful buffs and debuffs here will make it easier for martials to crit and spellcasters to land spells, with tools like Inspire Courage, Dirge of Doom, Fear, Haste, and Synesthesia.

Dark Archive

I’m thinking champion, bard, primal sorcerer, and rogue.


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If you only focus on combat, you'll lean toward martials, as skills and spells are an essential part of casters' abilities.
It also depends on the level. At low level, casters are quite weak, but they get better and better the higher the level. Also, at mid level, spells like Fly and Freedom of Movement can save the day. At high level, martials have boots or potions to handle these cases and casters can focus on other spells.

Then, there's the structure of the campaign. Dungeons favor martials. Fights without proper rest in between ask for healers.

So, it's very complicated, in my opinion.

If I had to choose, I'll take a Bard or, if it's high level play, someone multiclassed to Bard. A healer is necessary, either Cleric, Druid or Sorcerer (Divine or Primal). The Bard can do it, but it puts a lot of pressure (and thus weakness) on one character.
Fighters are top frontliners right now. So I'll put 2 of them.

Fighters x 2, Bard, Cleric would be my optimized choice.

Sovereign Court

It's going to depend on your campaign. In particular, will you have a support network? In an urban campaign, if you catch a nasty affliction, you can go to a temple to have someone deal with it. But if you're doing deep jungle exploration, it would be really nice to have a cleric who can access the whole divine list, not a sorcerer who only knows Heal for immediate damage relief.


I say

Champion ( Paladin ) obviously with flickmace.

Barbarian ( dragon instinct ) heavy dmg and aoe breath

Druid ( storm order ) blast + healings

Bard ( maestro/enigma ) he is the one who has to deal with traps other than social skills. Support + healings


Not sure flickmace champion is the best here. I'd rather a champion with a glaive or guisarme and the shield cantrip. You can grab the cantrip from an ancestry feat easily, which gives most of what you want. Defense is slightly lower, but you have a better weapon for AoOs and Retributive Strikes. I prefer guisarme, but glaive might be better if crits are common enough on reactions.


Paradozen wrote:
Not sure flickmace champion is the best here. I'd rather a champion with a glaive or guisarme and the shield cantrip. You can grab the cantrip from an ancestry feat easily, which gives most of what you want. Defense is slightly lower, but you have a better weapon for AoOs and Retributive Strikes. I prefer guisarme, but glaive might be better if crits are common enough on reactions.

Flickmace will give you 15 feet out of 15 for champion reaction ( ranged reprisal required ), while maintaining the shield raised for the highest armor in the game.

You also will be able to use Shield Block to shield allies, shield of reckoning to damage and protect from massive attacks, and more important you will have 1 extra reaction.

Lvl 8 extra shield block
Lvl 10 shield of reckoning
Lvl 12 lunge
Lvl 14 extra champ reaction
Lvl 16 extra shield block from fighter

4 reactions to deal with yourself and your partner. Damage is not really needed if your role is to protect ( damage will be However high ).

Grevious enchant + critical specialization with Flick mace will allow you to Knockdown and move the enemy, which is better than simply moving it.

Eventually, you could forgo your 4th reaction to take instrument of Zeal, allowing you on a crit to make the enemy

1 step far from your ally
Prone
1 action less

He will mostly lose the whole turn getting up ( triggering aoo for your partner ) and stepping back to it.


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Fighter: free hand build with combat grab, shove, intimidating strike, remorseless lash, fearsome brute

Fighter: 2h/twf fearsome brute, improved knockdown, remorseless lash, barbarian dedication, brutal bully

bard: spamming buffs & maestro stuff

cleric/druide: wiz/sorc dedication + careful explorer if you s!%~ your pants cause of traps


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Three martials (pick any), and a bard. If nobody wants to play a bard, add a martial.


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Four alchemists of the mutagenist variety, hands down.


Anguish wrote:
Three martials (pick any), and a bard. If nobody wants to play a bard, add a martial.

Can Bard replace Cleric heal amounts? You definitely want some support character in the group so they can heal and buff the fighters. I suppose Bard has some solid buffs! 2 Fighter, 1 Rogue, 1 Cleric might not be bad either if have some skill needs.


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ChibiNyan wrote:
Anguish wrote:
Three martials (pick any), and a bard. If nobody wants to play a bard, add a martial.
Can Bard replace Cleric heal amounts? You definitely want some support character in the group so they can heal and buff the fighters. I suppose Bard has some solid buffs! 2 Fighter, 1 Rogue, 1 Cleric might not be bad either if have some skill needs.

Healings are not a must if there's a nice damage mitigation ( or even if the enemies can't hit you ).

As for the healing amounts, i say no.
A Cleric is way better than a bard.

But a bard can inspire giving extra attack or defense, allowing you to end earlier encounters or to get hit less.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

IMO, YMMV, etc...

Goblin bard with alchemist dedication, Goblin Song, Quick Bomber, Inspire Competence, and Inspire Defense

Barbarian (animal instinct) with druid dedication, druid spellcasting (focus on spells that change your form), Wild Shape, Sudden Charge, and Animal Skin

Champion with cleric dedication, cleric spellcasting, Emblazon Armament, and Divine Weapon

Fighter with wizard dedication, wizard spellcasting, Eschew Materials, Bespell Weapon, and Dual-Handed Assault

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