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You should also take into account the composition of your party.
For example, if the party has a Rogue with Dread Striker and a shortbow, that makes Dirge of Doom a lot more powerful than the Dirge is on its own.
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The short answer is really "who else in your party is putting up Frightened?" Because if the answer is "no one", Dirge is arguably the strongest composition cantrip in the game. It lowers enemy offense AND defense and works on almost everything without a check or save. It's almost like shaving off a full level off everything you can hit with it.
Rallying Anthem is good, but it's not "make every enemy in range worse at everything with few exceptions and almost no way to defend against it" good. It also has to compete with Courageous Anthem for actions (and Fortissimo).
Dirge's main weakness is that because it's putting up Frightened, if someone else is doing that then it loses value, in which case something else is better. So your party composition matters here.
This can also be somewhat level dependent, because at high level a Bard themselves can cast something like Tempest of Shades or Weird and also use Rallying Anthem (because Eternal Composition is amazing) and if you're able to AoE Frighten everything on your first turn like that, Dirge loses some value though it can be great in a longer fight.
Finally, Dirge has a shorter range and requires you to get closer. This often won't matter, but if you really like being able to hang back farther than 30', factor that in.
I would imagine both would be used when your party is outnumbered on the battlefield, meanwhile courageous anthem would be used when your party outnumbers the enemy.
I think this is the other way around. Rallying Anthem is great when you're fighting a single very strong enemy as it will have high strikes and high save DCs on its abilities. That means the bonus is reducing your teams chance to be hit AND crit. Crit failing saves against boss monsters is really bad.
Against large number of weaker enemies, those numbers are both lower and you probably aren't being crit/crit failing except on a nat 1/20, which doesn't change.
You can compensate for Rallying Anthem with Bless or Bane, which are cheap and partially provide the effects of Courageous Anthem and Dirge of Doom. They are not as broad, but they do not compete for actions and your composition spell and are very cheap to buy/make as scrolls. As for whether it is better to use any of these 3 composition spells, it will depend a lot on each situation.
So if you have these 3 composition spells, it is up to you as a Bard to judge when it is worth using each of them. Because there will be several different situations where one will be better than the other. Remember that the bard is a caster, and as such you explore his effectiveness more by using his flexibility than by playing as a one skill monkey.
Ohh, I was thinking with Fortissimo and Rallying Anthem you could extend it for an additional round with a strike, on that second round I can now cast Fear (3), which would be a lot stronger than just Dirge, no?
If you're fighting packs of enemies, Fear 3 is a great spell. If you also need a strike in the same turn, you need to be in position to do that without a move action or also have Haste. Super cool, very powerful combo though, and the resistance from Anthem will help in this situation!
This is much less effective against big single target encounter foes, who are much more likely to resist the fear and also much harder for you to land that strike on (and can lay a beating on you in response).
Consider that on a single big enemy you can Dirge and then Synesthesia, which is applying Frightened before they roll their save against an absolutely crippling spell. Because Dirge has no save to resist it and is 1 action, you're effectively helping yourself hit the hardest targets with spells that can end fights if you land them.
TBH - Rallying Anthem is good. I think Dirge is better, but there's no bad pick here. If you like the Fortissimo Rallying sustain with a strike plan, take it. You'll have fun with it. :)
Ohh, I was thinking with Fortissimo and Rallying Anthem you could extend it for an additional round with a strike, on that second round I can now cast Fear (3), which would be a lot stronger than just Dirge, no?
Fortissimo doesn't change the sequence of actions in practice. In fact, if you pass the Fortissimo test, you'll get a good AC bonus and you can extend it with an attack in the following round, and you can cast Fear in the same turn that you cast Fortissimo + Rallying Anthem, which can impose a very severe penalty on one or more targets (it depends on the rank of your Fear).
But it's that point I mentioned, if there are several enemies that by default are not a threat to the group individually, but that in a group can be a problem, why are you focusing on defending yourself from them instead of killing them right away and reducing their strength by reducing their numbers?
This combination of Fortissimo + Rallying Anthem and Fear makes sense if you have a boss with a very good hit rate, to restrict his chances of hitting and critical hits, but in other situations it can simply be an overkill.
The advantage of a Dirge of Doom + Bless/Heightened Heroism/Girzanje's March is that it doesn't check. It always works.
Hmm interesting, I read in a popular guide the following for Rallying Anthem "Against multiple weaker opponents (or just when you’re outnumbered), Inspire Defense is superior to Inspire Courage because the damage resistance will apply many times."
This is not necessarily true.
If you pay attention to creatures, just like the striking rune, they do not necessarily gain more damage because they are 1 or 2 levels stronger.
In other words, in terms of damage reduction, it is not usually that significant, unless the creatures are much weaker. In most cases, the hit and critical hit are more relevant.
I also read this for Dirge of Doom "Dirge of Doom is better and times when Inspire Courage is better. If your party is doing more attack actions, stick with Inspire Courage. If the enemy is doing more attacking, use Dirge of Doom."
It actually depends more on your party than the enemy.
If your party is primarily martial, it will obviously benefit more than a party that is primarily spellcasting.
But the same goes for Dirge of Doom, if the number of enemies affected is much larger than the party, it will be much more effective.
The problem is that rank 3 Fear affects 5 creatures, so unless it is a case with 6 or more enemies, Dirge of Doom will not be much better.
It is like I said before, it depends on what spells you have available to use.
In the end it's just math and considering whether the enemy can hit or be hit by a difference greater than 10 when choosing which spells to apply.
I wouldn't take Dirge of Doom because it's a rule nightmare. I'm not sure there's any table able to play it properly considering how it doesn't make any sense.
I wouldn't take Dirge of Doom because it's a rule nightmare. I'm not sure there's any table able to play it properly considering how it doesn't make any sense.
What is the rule nightmare? I have two bards in my Strength of Thousands campaign leveling up to 6th level, and I suggested that the players look at this thread for comparisons.
I see potential for table variance. Does the frightened condition end with leaving the area of effect or does it continue to the end of the affected creature's turn? But that is not a full nightmare, because I can make a decision about my table.
Dirge of Doom [one-action] Cantrip 3
Uncommon, Bard, Cantrip, Composition, Concentrate, Emotion, Fear, Mental
Source Player Core pg. 370 2.0
Area 30-foot emanation
Duration 1 round
Enemies within the area are frightened 1. They can't reduce their frightened value below 1 while they remain in the area.
EDIT: I found the threads Dirge of Doom Frightened Duration and Dirge of Doom and Bravery. Anything else?
I wouldn't take Dirge of Doom because it's a rule nightmare. I'm not sure there's any table able to play it properly considering how it doesn't make any sense.
Seems fairly straightforward to me. As long you're inside the aura, you maintain the condition and it doesn't drop normally. Once you get out, the condition works normally. Is that the issue?
I wouldn't take Dirge of Doom because it's a rule nightmare. I'm not sure there's any table able to play it properly considering how it doesn't make any sense.Seems fairly straightforward to me. As long you're inside the aura, you maintain the condition and it doesn't drop normally. Once you get out, the condition works normally. Is that the issue?
If that is the rules problem being referenced, then it isn't much of a nightmare. The GM just needs to make a ruling on whether the condition is an inherent part of the ability and effect, or if the effect causes a condition that persists after the ability no longer directly affects the target.
Dirge of Doom isn't the only ability with this rules edge case either. Evil Eye does it with Sickened, and Antagonize does it without magic.
It would be an easier ruling if the FAQ regarding this applied to spells and other abilities instead of just afflictions. The rule for afflictions is that if the condition itself has a way of being reduced or removed, then the condition is separate and persists beyond the end of the affliction. If the condition does not have an innate way of being removed, then it is tied to the duration of the affliction.
If this is the case I think there's some overstatement once the general rule for Fear is that it have a duration up to the end of the affected creature turn where it goes down by 1. I don't remember effects saying that fear have a duration outside of bigger effects that have their own durations. In these cases we have a more complicated debate to what duration have to use but this isn't the case of Dirge of Doom, Evil Eye and Antagonize that clearly says "its frightened condition can't decrease to less than 1" what is pretty clear that this doesn't change the effect duration instead it just prevents the condition to be reduced even if its original effect duration ends.
Seems fairly straightforward to me. As long you're inside the aura, you maintain the condition and it doesn't drop normally. Once you get out, the condition works normally. Is that the issue?
First, it's not an Aura. So the area doesn't move. As there's no clause for entering the area, only enemies inside at the time of casting get Frightened. Then, you have the never ending debate on Frightened being an ongoing effect or not and as such ending when the spell ends or not.
I bet the following answers in this topic will show nothing's straightforward in Dirge of Doom.
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I wouldn't take Dirge of Doom because it's a rule nightmare. I'm not sure there's any table able to play it properly considering how it doesn't make any sense.
There are some rules aspects to it which are hard to parse. Most tables I've been in just treat it like an aura. Which is technically wrong but so much simpler that they prefer it.
Either way though it is still worthwhile. Especially if you want your focus points for something other than Lingering Composition.
Hmm interesting, I read in a popular guide the following for Rallying Anthem "Against multiple weaker opponents (or just when you’re outnumbered), Inspire Defense is superior to Inspire Courage because the damage resistance will apply many times."
Well it will apply more often, but is that really better than defeating enemies faster?
In a fight like that, the enemies have lower attacks, save DCs, and AC. It's easier to crit them. Inspire Courage/Courageous Anthem will thus increase your crit rate even more, and there is no more effective damage prevention than "defeat the enemy faster so it doesn't get to attack at all."
Compared to 2 resistance at level 8? IMO, the best defense is a good offense in that situation.
I also read this for Dirge of Doom "Dirge of Doom is better and times when Inspire Courage is better. If your party is doing more attack actions, stick with Inspire Courage. If the enemy is doing more attacking, use Dirge of Doom."
Frightened lowers enemy AC. Courageous Anthem increases attack. The net result of -1 AC or +1 attack is the same on your chances to hit.
Courageous Anthem can have Fortissimo used on it and Dirge can't, at which point it becomes a bigger modifier. Same thing if Frightened is going up some other way (such as via Demoralize or Fear), since Dirge doesn't stack with those and thus won't do anything while those are up.
But Dirge also lowers enemy saves so it helps casters, and Courageous Anthem doesn't do that.
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I prefer Dirge of Doom because it stacks with everything but other debuffs and helps casters as well as martials and works for the enemy's attacks and their defenses which makes it both great for defense and offense.
Rallying Anthem only helps defense of your PCs.
That's why I argued that the comparison between composition spells is relative, there are several external factors altering the effectiveness of each one, the ideal is to analyze each case and choose what seems most beneficial to you at the time.
There are some rules aspects to it which are hard to parse.
There are like half a dozen interpretations to it. The second the GM actually reads it the rule nightmare starts. As I play PFS, I have to state before each game with a Dirge of Doom Bard how I play it, and they are generally not happy as I follow the rules (which is PFS position on rules).
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To be fair, I would not be surprised if the foundry module, which has bigger maps than the standard cramped maps of every AP, played a large roll.When I played my bard in stolen fates (so levels 11-20), Rallying anthem was used so much more than dirge of doom purely because of the much higher range. I had so many 60 ft+ range spells that I was rarely within 30ft of a solo boss, and in a group fight I was usually only within range for like half of them. And due to bad luck, in most of the cases where I was within 30 ft of enemies either I was halfway though a lingering composition because they where too far away at the start of the fight or the enemies happened to be mindless. It just never seemed worth it to spend actions to move that close, not use lingering composition until round 2-3, just to debuff the attack rolls and saves.Interesting, I am also playing Stolen Fate so perhaps Rallying Anthem is the way to go.
It does help, but I find some players just prefer to stay farther away if they can. If you're doing that, Rallying is better because it works at the range you naturally want to be at and will just feel better to use.
One of the challenges with a question like this is that there's no "right" answer. These are all good abilities. Which one is better depends on a pile of factors, and one of those factors is "we're using big maps so everyone is spread out more." :)
Seems fairly straightforward to me. As long you're inside the aura, you maintain the condition and it doesn't drop normally. Once you get out, the condition works normally. Is that the issue?
First, it's not an Aura. So the area doesn't move. As there's no clause for entering the area, only enemies inside at the time of casting get Frightened. Then, you have the never ending debate on Frightened being an ongoing effect or not and as such ending when the spell ends or not.
I bet the following answers in this topic will show nothing's straightforward in Dirge of Doom.
It's an emanation around the Bard, that's why I mentioned "Aura". I'm just imagining the intended effect of a Bard sustaining their song for several rounds and the Composition effects emanating from them. That's the image we're supposed to get, even if round by round there's one action being spent.
Here's how I run Dirge:
There's a set 30ft AOE in the middle of the battlefield during a given round (from the moment the Bard cast until the end of their turn). Enemies who pass it, gain Frightened 1. If they end up the their round inside DoD, Frightened 1 doesn't tick down. If they ended without the AOE, the condition works normally, ticking down at the end of their turn.
I think since it's a "mild" effect, it's meant to be "sticky". Rather than an instant binary on/off situation (that creates the issues making it hard for you to wrap your head around).
I would honestly argue if Dirge was an Aura it would actually be a WORSE rules nightmare, considering we still don't have good guidance on when you actually "enter" an Aura timing-wise (does a creature moving the aura to you count? Is forced movement entering?) that cause even more issues and also has twenty-seven different rulings for twenty-seven different tables.
As it is now, it's very obviously (to me, anyways):
-When you use the action, it slaps down a static 30-foot emanation. This emanation lasts one round. It's not an Aura, so doesn't follow the Bard.
-If a creature is ever in the area for any reason, they're Frightened 1. If they're still in the area when their Frightened value would decrease below 1, it doesn't.
-If a creature walks entirely through the area (from one end to the other), they would gain Frightened 1, which they keep as they walk out of it, and then lose that Frightened at the end of the turn.
As it is now, it's very obviously (to me, anyways):
-When you use the action, it slaps down a static 30-foot emanation. This emanation lasts one round. It's not an Aura, so doesn't follow the Bard.
The funny thing about this reading is that this makes the Bard faster than the speed of sound, if you think about it. They're supposed to be playing/singing/dancing something so dreadful that is enough to send shivers down the enemy's spine.
-If a creature is ever in the area for any reason, they're Frightened 1.
Only creatures at the time of casting are affected. When an effect is supposed to happen when you enter an area, it's always specified when it takes effect exactly (on entering, ending turn or starting turn). If you change that you affect a lot of area spells with a duration (Calm for example, that has the same wording than Dirge of Doom).
If they're still in the area when their Frightened value would decrease below 1, it doesn't.
Only creatures that remain in the area don't see their Frightened value reduced. If you leave the area and come back you technically haven't remained in the area and should see your Frightened value reduced.
And that's without even entering the ongoing effect discussion.
Since these composition spells do not have the aura trait, I consider them to work as a pulse that affects the entire area of emanation that occurs at the moment the action of the spell is executed. This makes it easy to understand and execute.
So the Bard can move to a position, execute this pulse and affect all targets from that point on, then move again, but the targets have already been affected.
Since these composition spells do not have the aura trait, I consider them to work as a pulse that affects the entire area of emanation that occurs at the moment the action of the spell is executed. This makes it easy to understand and execute.
So the Bard can move to a position, execute this pulse and affect all targets from that point on, then move again, but the targets have already been affected.
Personally, my reading makes it stronger, but, more importantly, makes it simpler to run. Which is why I wasn't even aware of the "troubles" with running Dirge of Doom.
I think it's important to not be lost in the weeds attempting to run down a set of rule functions like a computer and bugging out when it doesn't fit perfectly with the RAW. The good thing about TTRPGS is that RAW can be supported by RAI, unlike a computer game, and in this case Dirge of Doom is meant to be a frightening tune emanating from the Bard, not a "Fireball" effect, don't you all agree?
Not to mention how weird it would be to run Lingering Composition+Dirge of Doom. The Bard casts DoD+LC and then walks on his next two turns, and the sound/visual effect stays behind? Explain that to me, because it's me not wrapping my head around things this time! Haha.
Regardless, I will keep running DoD like I've been doing. No headaches, awesome results.
Yes that's correct. I was thinking of using Rallying Antham with the brooch to get a +3 AC bonus AND +3 saves bonus. And then on that second round while it's active casting Fear 3 on the enemy. I am kind of confused how this isn't better than just Dirge? Dirge is a -1 to everything. Rallying is a +3 AC for the entire party as well as +3 all saves (we can ignore the minimal damage resistance ie. 3 damage reduction at level 12). Can't Frightened be obtained by multiple ways, there aren't many ways you can get a +3 AC and Saves bonus.I prefer Dirge of Doom because it stacks with everything but other debuffs and helps casters as well as martials and works for the enemy's attacks and their defenses which makes it both great for defense and offense.
Rallying Anthem only helps defense of your PCs.
Just remember you can't have more that one composition active until you pick up Harmonize. If you cast Rallying Anthem using lingering composition, it will last a few rounds, but it will cancel out if you cast Dirge of Doom if you don't use Harmonize. I learned this the hard way that if you want to have two compositions going at the same time even using Lingering Composition, you must have Harmonize first.
You can't use Fortissimo with Harmonize as they are both Spellshape effects.
It's very, very hard to have two compositions going at once as Harmonize is very action intensive. You usually can't do it easily until level 18 or 20.
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Since these composition spells do not have the aura trait, I consider them to work as a pulse that affects the entire area of emanation that occurs at the moment the action of the spell is executed. This makes it easy to understand and execute.
So the Bard can move to a position, execute this pulse and affect all targets from that point on, then move again, but the targets have already been affected.
Yep. That's how I see it. That means after the casting, if targets move outside the area they are still affected until just before the start of your next turn or longer if you using Lingering Composition. They are not auras, but emanations from the bard that affect targets when the spell is cast.
I haven't had any trouble adjudicating them. They do what they do like any emanation with a1 round duration.
The funny thing about this reading is that this makes the Bard faster than the speed of sound, if you think about it. They're supposed to be playing/singing/dancing something so dreadful that is enough to send shivers down the enemy's spine.
The way I see it, it's kinda like the sound bubble that Hunting Horns put down in Monster Hunter Wilds. A bubble of echoing music isn't exactly all that strange when we're talking magic, here.
Though, after reading through the other Bard compositions, it's fairly clear the Frightened is likely supposed to be an "semi-instantaneous effect" like the others, though I disagree with SuperBidi on why.
Only creatures at the time of casting are affected. When an effect is supposed to happen when you enter an area, it's always specified when it takes effect exactly (on entering, ending turn or starting turn). If you change that you affect a lot of area spells with a duration (Calm for example, that has the same wording than Dirge of Doom).
Noxious Vapors seems to adjudicate its concealed condition just fine without specifying "any creature within the spell's area when its Cast, or any creature that enters". In fact, it specifically only does so for the Fort save. I don't believe there's a reasonable reading of the spell that makes the concealed condition it gives "snapshot" upon casting. If you're in the cloud, you're concealed. If you're out of the cloud, you're only concealed to those in it.
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Yes that's right I had no intention on having Dirge running at the same time. I am able to extend Rallying Anthems +3 bonus to 2 rounds via Martial Performance.Yes that's correct. I was thinking of using Rallying Antham with the brooch to get a +3 AC bonus AND +3 saves bonus. And then on that second round while it's active casting Fear 3 on the enemy. I am kind of confused how this isn't better than just Dirge? Dirge is a -1 to everything. Rallying is a +3 AC for the entire party as well as +3 all saves (we can ignore the minimal damage resistance ie. 3 damage reduction at level 12). Can't Frightened be obtained by multiple ways, there aren't many ways you can get a +3 AC and Saves bonus.I prefer Dirge of Doom because it stacks with everything but other debuffs and helps casters as well as martials and works for the enemy's attacks and their defenses which makes it both great for defense and offense.
Rallying Anthem only helps defense of your PCs.
Just remember you can't have more that one composition active until you pick up Harmonize. If you cast Rallying Anthem using lingering composition, it will last a few rounds, but it will cancel out if you cast Dirge of Doom if you don't use Harmonize. I learned this the hard way that if you want to have two compositions going at the same time even using Lingering Composition, you must have Harmonize first.
You can't use Fortissimo with Harmonize as they are both Spellshape effects.
It's very, very hard to have two compositions going at once as Harmonize is very action intensive. You usually can't do it easily until level 18 or 20.
That should work.
One of the reasons I avoided the bard after playing it once is the Harmonize combination of Dirge of Doom and Rallying or Courageous Anthem was so powerful that the other players stopped wanting me to do anything else. I got tired of that round after round after round.
It made fights so easy for the group shifting the math by 2 points or more a round that not doing it seemed like a waste of actions. Unless I was casting synesthesia on a boss with True Target to end their existence.
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Noxious Vapors seems to adjudicate its concealed condition just fine without specifying "any creature within the spell's area when its Cast, or any creature that enters". In fact, it specifically only does so for the Fort save. I don't believe there's a reasonable reading of the spell that makes the concealed condition it gives "snapshot" upon casting. If you're in the cloud, you're concealed. If you're out of the cloud, you're only concealed to those in it.
It's because Concealed is not the property of a creature but the property of the environment. Like if you are in dim light you are Concealed but not because of something on you but because of the environment (lighting one). Effects that provide Concealment as such have this unique wording.
If you start considering that AoE effects with a duration continue affecting enemies every time they enter the AoE during the duration you significantly modify a lot of spells. There are 177 such spells, a lot of them having the exact same kind of wording Dirge of Doom has: AoN query.
I let you dive into this list to realize you are having a very special treatment for Dirge of Doom.
-When you use the action, it slaps down a static 30-foot emanation. This emanation lasts one round. It's not an Aura, so doesn't follow the Bard.No. "An emanation issues forth from each side of your space, extending out to a specified number of feet in all directions." Unconditionally. Always, in any case. So the moment continuous effect doesn't move with its moving source, it's not an emanation anymore. There're absolutely no exceptions.
So continuous emanations always move with their sources. Doesn't matter if they are auras or not.
No, Emanations don't follow you unless they have the Aura trait. Otherwise, it's just a static area that emanates from you at the time of casting and doesn't move afterwards. Remaster solved this issue as in the past it was unclear when an effect was supposed to follow the caster or not.
Yes that's right I had no intention on having Dirge running at the same time. I am able to extend Rallying Anthems +3 bonus to 2 rounds via Martial Performance.Yes that's correct. I was thinking of using Rallying Antham with the brooch to get a +3 AC bonus AND +3 saves bonus. And then on that second round while it's active casting Fear 3 on the enemy. I am kind of confused how this isn't better than just Dirge? Dirge is a -1 to everything. Rallying is a +3 AC for the entire party as well as +3 all saves (we can ignore the minimal damage resistance ie. 3 damage reduction at level 12). Can't Frightened be obtained by multiple ways, there aren't many ways you can get a +3 AC and Saves bonus.I prefer Dirge of Doom because it stacks with everything but other debuffs and helps casters as well as martials and works for the enemy's attacks and their defenses which makes it both great for defense and offense.
Rallying Anthem only helps defense of your PCs.
Just remember you can't have more that one composition active until you pick up Harmonize. If you cast Rallying Anthem using lingering composition, it will last a few rounds, but it will cancel out if you cast Dirge of Doom if you don't use Harmonize. I learned this the hard way that if you want to have two compositions going at the same time even using Lingering Composition, you must have Harmonize first.
You can't use Fortissimo with Harmonize as they are both Spellshape effects.
It's very, very hard to have two compositions going at once as Harmonize is very action intensive. You usually can't do it easily until level 18 or 20.
That should work.
One of the reasons I avoided the bard after playing it once is the Harmonize combination of Dirge of Doom and Rallying or Courageous Anthem was so powerful that the other players stopped wanting me to do anything else. I got tired of that...
You don't even need to wait to get Harmonize if you merge Bless or Girzanje's March with Dirge of Doom is enough to make your allies to fall in love for your buffs and if you harmonize 3 effects like Effortless Sustained Girzanje's March + Harmonized Dirge of Doom with Fortissimo Rallying Anthem probably your allies will wish that you play as a tower buffer forever. :P
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...Yes that's right I had no intention on having Dirge running at the same time. I am able to extend Rallying Anthems +3 bonus to 2 rounds via Martial Performance.Yes that's correct. I was thinking of using Rallying Antham with the brooch to get a +3 AC bonus AND +3 saves bonus. And then on that second round while it's active casting Fear 3 on the enemy. I am kind of confused how this isn't better than just Dirge? Dirge is a -1 to everything. Rallying is a +3 AC for the entire party as well as +3 all saves (we can ignore the minimal damage resistance ie. 3 damage reduction at level 12). Can't Frightened be obtained by multiple ways, there aren't many ways you can get a +3 AC and Saves bonus.I prefer Dirge of Doom because it stacks with everything but other debuffs and helps casters as well as martials and works for the enemy's attacks and their defenses which makes it both great for defense and offense.
Rallying Anthem only helps defense of your PCs.
Just remember you can't have more that one composition active until you pick up Harmonize. If you cast Rallying Anthem using lingering composition, it will last a few rounds, but it will cancel out if you cast Dirge of Doom if you don't use Harmonize. I learned this the hard way that if you want to have two compositions going at the same time even using Lingering Composition, you must have Harmonize first.
You can't use Fortissimo with Harmonize as they are both Spellshape effects.
It's very, very hard to have two compositions going at once as Harmonize is very action intensive. You usually can't do it easily until level 18 or 20.
That should work.
One of the reasons I avoided the bard after playing it once is the Harmonize combination of Dirge of Doom and Rallying or Courageous Anthem was so powerful that the other players stopped wanting me to do
Screw that. I don't want to be any more valuable as a buff bot as that is a boring role.
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No, Emanations don't follow you unless they have the Aura trait. Otherwise, it's just a static area that emanates from you at the time of casting and doesn't move afterwards. Remaster solved this issue as in the past it was unclear when an effect was supposed to follow the caster or not.-When you use the action, it slaps down a static 30-foot emanation. This emanation lasts one round. It's not an Aura, so doesn't follow the Bard.No. "An emanation issues forth from each side of your space, extending out to a specified number of feet in all directions." Unconditionally. Always, in any case. So the moment continuous effect doesn't move with its moving source, it's not an emanation anymore. There're absolutely no exceptions.
So continuous emanations always move with their sources. Doesn't matter if they are auras or not.
What rule is that? I did not read that change.
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There's nothing in the Emanation that says such a thing.
As far as we know, Compositions are Emanations that have a duration and "An emanation issues forth from each side of your space, extending out to a specified number of feet in all directions.", which means that for 1 round, the AOE emanation will move with the Bard. Which makes sense both mechanically (from the Emanation Rules) and narratively (the Bard singing/playing a tune).
The thing with areas of effect that stay in one place have a name. They're called Bursts.
You all are overcomplicating things and making the features worse for no reason whatsoever.
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No, Raven, the difference between Bursts and Emanations is that Bursts originate from corners, and Emanations originate from your square.
:)
That's it. They originate from your square. Also, like, you can move Bursts plenty? There's lots of Burst area spells that move; that's not exactly much of an argument.
If they wanted Emanations to automatically move with you, then why would they need the Aura trait? The Aura trait exists explicitly to allow effects to move with the origin of said effect.
An aura is an emanation that continually ebbs out from you, affecting creatures within a certain radius. Aura can also refer to the magical signature of an item.
Emphasis mine.
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The problem with Dirge of Doom is it does not have the Aura Trait. So it is a one off effect that occurs when is cast.
However the text refers to the area having an effect for the duration. Which makes the spell sounds like it is a continuous aura.
Technically it is only partially continuous. It is poorly worded.
What rule is that? I did not read that change.
The Aura Trait has been added to a lot of spells, like Bless for example. Before the remaster, it was rather clear that Bless was following you despite the lack of the Aura trait, making people wonder when an Emanation was supposed to follow you and when it was not supposed to. With the remaster putting the Aura trait in a lot of places, it's now crystal clear: If an emanation has the Aura trait, it follows you, otherwise it doesn't.
Bard Compositions haven't inherited from the Aura trait and as such are just affecting creatures inside the area at the time of casting and that's all.
Means nothing. Yes, auras do that. Also simply continuous emanations do this too. No contradictions.
You mean that lacking a trait doesn't mean you don't get the trait mechanical effect?
Well, let's consider that every action can increase MAP because nothing states that actions without the Attack trait don't increase MAP :D
Your position is not tenable.
But then we get to...Song of Marching. Which is clearly intended to move with the party, is sustained, but does not have Aura. That spell makes absolutely no sense if it doesn't move.
Well, not really. It affects the allies that were there at the time of casting. I agree it's weird that they can technically part ways in the middle of the Song. But I think it's just an oversight.
As a side note, I don't think Song of Marching should have the Aura Trait. The Aura Trait means that anyone entering the Aura would benefit immediately from its effects, when I see Song of Marching as a spell that needs everyone to stay close to you during the whole "march". And also that you need to maintain line of effect for your allies to benefit from it, which would reduce its effects inside a dungeon as only the allies with line of effect would benefit from the initiative bonus (and I don't speak about the exploration activities that would go on and off everytime you turn a corner). I think it should have a proximity requirement, like "If an affected ally moves more than 60 ft. away from you the spell ends for them". So for me it has nothing to do with the Aura trait.