Seven deadly sins / 4 horsemen

[Becarri]

I am making a campaign where the players will have to fight the sins and the horsemen. I have ideas for both sides but I am wondering which set should the players run into first? If anyone has any ideas who should show up first and even how please let me know

[Reduxist]

What enemies are you going to use to represent the sin side?

[Nyerkh]

It depends partly on how you represent the sins and if you use the existing horsemen.
But mostly, I'd base it in what is supposed to be more threatening in your story, if you already know that.

Like, are your Sins demons or inspired by Thassilonian magic ? A mix of both, maybe ? Neither ?

And using existing demon stuff, either the sins are regular theme-appropriate demons, of varying CRs, or you pick/build demon princes.
But that latter option means everything is endgame, and your players have a bunch of actual demigods to deal with, up to CR 30 (at least). That is a long, looong campaign if you start level 1.

I'd start with the Sins, using non-prince demons, probably souped up variant of your usual existing classics. Sins just feel less of a threat than the apocalypse.

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

If you are familiar with the L5R setting I would suggest doing the 7DS like the onisu
(d20 stats found in the "Secrets of the [Clans]" books.)

Short version, they were based off the sins of that setting and they gain benefits any time someone commits a sin of the type hey are made from. Conversely anyone performing a deed tied to the opposing virtue will weaken the onisu.
E.g. Kyofu the onisu of fear has an aura of fear that even affects those normally immune to fear, and any time some succumbs to a fear effect Kyofu gains a significant boost (one temporary HD increase in 3.0 rules), while any time someone performs an act of bravery in Kyofu's presence, he gains a temporary negative level.

[VoodistMonk]

The Four Horse-men of the Apocalypse...

A team of four centaurs, named:
Apollyon, with a Scythe
Charon, with a Quarterstaff
Szuriel, with a Greatsword
Trelmarixian, with Spiked Gauntlets

They all take one level of Fighter and 10 levels of the Sentinel Prestige Class.

Each are equipped with an Adamantine Breastplate and Adamantine version of their Deity's signature weapon.

They each have a ~6th level Cohort, which could be Slayer archers who ride the centaurs. Or literally any number of fun things.

Centaur (4HD) base stats are:
15,14,15,11,14,12

Class Level adjusted stats are:
19,18,17,11,16,10

Final stats @ 15HD are:
20,18,18,11,16,10

Takes the Centaur from CR 3, to CR 14, plus the Cohort. Each... there are four of them.

[Becarri]

I’m still working on what I’m gonna use as the horsemen and the sins. The sins would be more on the demon side. Yeah I was looking at making the sins and the demon princes separate entities. And I’m not sure what the L5R setting is but from what you described that could work really well. And I really like that idea for the horsemen. Thank you guys!

[Dragonchess Player]

For the four horsemen, there is this thread from 2013 that could provide some ideas.

For the seven sins, you could go with:

Envy - bard (sandman) or inquisitor with the Spellkiller inquisition might work
Gluttony - inquisitor (sin eater) or occultist (tome eater)
Greed - rogue, probably; alchemist (crypt breaker) or bard (archaeologist) are also options
Lust - witch (seducer)
Pride - mesmerist (cult master) or sorcerer (Imperious bloodline)
Sloth - mesmerist (dreamstalker) or summoner
Wrath - barbarian or bloodrager are obvious choices; skald (warlord) may be worth looking at, as well

[VoodistMonk]

Gluttony could also be a "Get in my belly!" Tyrant Totem Invulnerable Rager Barbarian focused on grappling with armor spikes, deadly grappler, rapid grappler, and Swallow Whole...

[Mary5545]

Short version, they were based off the sins of that setting and they gain benefits any time someone commits a sin of the type hey are made from. Conversely anyone performing a deed tied to the opposing virtue will weaken the onisu. diebestetest

[yukongil]

in a homebrew Earthdawn setting I run, I use the Sins as some of the monster races; basically people transformed by the gods of the world for their sins.

Goblins represent Greed
Ogres = gluttony
Minotaurs = wrath
medusas = pride
satyrs = lust
oozes = sloth (this one is a little shaky, but is the best I could come up with)
Trolls = envy

I would suggest that as an alternative to having 7 BBEGs and let the horsemen take that niche.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Usually, you'd go with the 4 Horsemen last because, well, the Apocalypse always comes last because that's what Apocalypse means.

[TheGreatWot]

yukongil wrote:

oozes = sloth (this one is a little shaky, but is the best I could come up with)

Gnolls are known for being lazy. You could use those.

I'm very partial to gnolls.

[Artofregicide]

TheGreatWot wrote:

yukongil wrote:

oozes = sloth (this one is a little shaky, but is the best I could come up with)

Gnolls are known for being lazy. You could use those.

I'm very partial to gnolls.

If you like gnolls so much, why don't write a adventure about them which would include lovecraftian themes and subverting traditional monster tropes that is also just all round a really great read...

[TheGreatWot]

Aww, you remember. :p

[Irontruth]

An idea for dealing with the Sins, as the players kill them, the remaining Sins become more powerful. This lets you have one early in the campaign and beatable, so it's not just 7 villains at the end in a row.

You could even seed the campaign so that the players have a choice of who to go after first.