Brutish Shove


Rules Discussion


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Greetings folks. I just need some clarification.

For Brutish Shove if the attack misses is the target still flat footed?


Brutish Shove adds this failure effect to your attack

"Failure: The target becomes flat-footed until the end of your current turn."

So if your attack roll fails, but does not critically fail, you get that effect.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This sounds like a good feat.

Horizon Hunters

Eh, it's so-so.

If you want to move an enemy then you get to shove the opponent with your Strike value, rather than your Athletics value. So you are likely to get +2 or +3 out of it. This is valuable if you want to move him out of a choke point, or knock him off a cliff/pier (if 5' movement will do this). And it makes him flat-footed for any following attacks, so you don't get a full -5 when you swing on him next.

The 'flat-footed until the end of your turn if you fail' is kind of a sop to people who failed: it doesn't help other party members. Without this, I'd rate the feat as poor.

But note the requirements: you must be using a two-handed weapon, & the creature must be your size or smaller.

With an Athletics/Shove, it can be done to a creature one size larger than you... but you must have a free hand or a weapon with the Shove trait. Such weapons include Light Mace (Agile & Finesse = Rogue), Warhammer (1 handed) and Greatclub (2 handed).

Note: This is a feat with situational usage. Power Attack (frex) is usefull any time you have two actions left.


Maxwell D'Ahmagge wrote:

Eh, it's so-so.

If you want to move an enemy then you get to shove the opponent with your Strike value, rather than your Athletics value. So you are likely to get +2 or +3 out of it. This is valuable if you want to move him out of a choke point, or knock him off a cliff/pier (if 5' movement will do this). And it makes him flat-footed for any following attacks, so you don't get a full -5 when you swing on him next.

The 'flat-footed until the end of your turn if you fail' is kind of a sop to people who failed: it doesn't help other party members. Without this, I'd rate the feat as poor.

But note the requirements: you must be using a two-handed weapon, & the creature must be your size or smaller.

With an Athletics/Shove, it can be done to a creature one size larger than you... but you must have a free hand or a weapon with the Shove trait. Such weapons include Light Mace (Agile & Finesse = Rogue), Warhammer (1 handed) and Greatclub (2 handed).

Note: This is a feat with situational usage. Power Attack (frex) is usefull any time you have two actions left.

It is situational great, but you can also always use it (if you're using the right kind of weapon, and you wouldn't take the feat if that wasn't your focus) and the flat-footed can help you land a hit on the third strike if that's your jam.

And unlike a normal shove, you still do your strike damage, which it seems you may be overlooking.


Maxwell D'Ahmagge wrote:

Eh, it's so-so.

If you want to move an enemy then you get to shove the opponent with your Strike value, rather than your Athletics value. So you are likely to get +2 or +3 out of it. This is valuable if you want to move him out of a choke point, or knock him off a cliff/pier (if 5' movement will do this). And it makes him flat-footed for any following attacks, so you don't get a full -5 when you swing on him next.

The 'flat-footed until the end of your turn if you fail' is kind of a sop to people who failed: it doesn't help other party members. Without this, I'd rate the feat as poor.

But note the requirements: you must be using a two-handed weapon, & the creature must be your size or smaller.

With an Athletics/Shove, it can be done to a creature one size larger than you... but you must have a free hand or a weapon with the Shove trait. Such weapons include Light Mace (Agile & Finesse = Rogue), Warhammer (1 handed) and Greatclub (2 handed).

Note: This is a feat with situational usage. Power Attack (frex) is usefull any time you have two actions left.

it's a free action shove, with a flat footed on top, that autosucceeds if you hit with your strike.

and if you miss with your strike, it makes htem flat footed to boot.

it's pretty great for so early on due to the action economy saver, it actually makes shove much more useful rather than situational useful (since you won't be "trading" your strike for it, but just getting it on top of it)


It also has an optional step if you land it. So you can reposition enemies and yourself. That's a lot for a second a free action from a second level feat.

Paizo Employee Developer

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The fighter in my home group uses Brutish Shove (and Powerful Shove) all the time. It works really well with the rogue's Opportune Backstab, especially when the rogue hasn't had a chance to flank yet. It also helps out in cases where the other party members have some trouble hitting a foe. The rest of the party Readies an attack that goes off as soon as the Brutish Shove is done.

Also, as mentioned above, getting to move enemies around is really helpful and lets the fighter have some fun battlefield control.


Oh, you also don't have the critical failure risks associated with normal combat maneuvers on Brutish Shove, which is great. Plus, the first time you shove an enemy off a cliff to its demise? The feat will be your new favorite.

My biggest gripe is I feel like it should interact with Titan Wrestler somehow.

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