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TRDG wrote:

I'll be keeping Alignment in all my games regardless, but nice to see ORC results and some tweeks to the game.


Same here. Ive been gaming since 1978 and I like the idea of constraining behaviors for players based on the concept of good vrs evil. it works. They are going to update the Bestiary but will the other two books also be valid?

Thank you for the reply!


My current book is just about met its tattered end as I have dog eared it and its pretty beat up. I was going to buy another but wanted to know if all the updates/clarifications and such to date are within the ones currently being sold by Paizo.

Thank you in advance!


Great suggestions thank you! I forgot about the Dark Elves P1 saga with the whole asteroid arc.

Greetings friends,

I have been DM'ing P2 since launch and we love the P2 system. I have players who play both 5E and P2 regularly and my feedback has been that the players love the P2 system over the 5E. They stated that 5E is perhaps more accessible to newer players both in sheer number of GM's and games available but overall the fun and depth of P2 is better.

Now the same players started the first AP Age of Ashes, I ran that to about AP 3 and we got frustrated due to what I would call a poor story to proceed further. The AoA story was in my opinion weak and at 11th level the players wanted to re-roll and try the Gauntlight mega dungeon.

They love it! I mean they bother me and ask, are we playing this week! Kudos on Paizo for this AP, while some if not most of the better DM's probably don't like a linear dungeon crawl, I love it. I am not a good role play DM, more the kick in the door and kill everyone type. The players are also from early 1rst and 2nd edition D&D and they also love this return to a classic trope.

The players are now in Hands of the Devil and things are running just fine. I wanted to ask if anyone knows of an AP or Pathfinder 2E module that can continue the underground/dungeon theme post 12th level?

The players will likely head to Absalom from Otari, but they expressed a desire to continue the campaign 'down below'. I was thinking of continuing the darklands adventuring via level 9's access points and was curious if there are any AP's either stand alone or one where I can pick up and keep going on to 20th.

Thanks again Paizo on the Ruins of Gauntlight series!

Greetings team Paizo and community!

Just curious if there will be even talk of another addition to the Monster and creature inventory.

Will we get another Bestiary (or similar) entry?

I am running this module and added some of the encounters in troubles in Otari. This extra exp has allowed the party to level up slightly faster to to lvl 2 and they have not encountered Mr Beak yet.

On a side note I did create random encounters for lvls 1-2, 3-4, and 5-6, along with exp and variable loot.

While P2 does not lend itself to random encounters it does help with some RP as now if they camp within the ruins, things can come 'wandering in'. This messes up the exp gain a bit but its not a big deal.

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I treat Battle medicine exactly as treat wound but you can do it in combat with one action and it does not remove wounds.

You paid a feat tax for it. Let the player have agency. To me it is simply a way to heal quickly in battle which works just like treat wounds along with crit success and failure.

I know this sounds silly but my players warrior will raise shield, strike with his sword (other hand) 2x as if he critically misses our table plays that as 'end of turn'.

The rules do not indicate both hands have to be free.


I am re reading the side bar and it appears that if an Orc starts his initiative Hidden (he is behind cover and wants to strike from range), and shoots his short bow at a PC. The PC would be flat footed against this first attack.

Is this correct?


I wanted to see how folks are using and what they think of the beginner box set.

My players are not new to the system and I just purchased the set so I can use the resources and the short adventure 'menace under otari'.

In short, I love it. Well done Paizo. Clear cut, succinct and easy to digest for new folks.

My Players are running Abomination vaults and this module along with troubles in Otari will all be made 'available' to the players as various missions/quests/requests from folks in town.

This will obviously change the exp and expected lvl for some encounters but that can be adjusted.

Thanks Paizo!


That is great advice! I was going to salt into the module 1 or 2 Otari troubles side quests as a break from the main vaults and realized that even if 1 level over leveled wont 'break the bank' so to speak.

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Queaux wrote:

I allowed a Sturdy tower shield on the roman legionnaire themed fighter in my AOA game using the sturdy shield stats and the tower shield action. The tower shield action is cool, but it isn't a strong enough option to worry about too much as far as pushing the power available to characters. I might shave off 1 hardness and a few HP from Sturdy to account for this option if I had to do it again.

For other shields, I do let my players mix and match rules a little. I'll allow a half spellguard half sturdy shield, for example, by giving +1 to saves and half of the hardness/hp increases of the sturdy shield of that level over the regular shield.

I also allow the inventor feat to be used to split the difference between tiers of sturdy shields for in between level shields if they craft that schematic. In general, I'll let players with inventor interpolate between tiers of items like shields and alchemical items as long as they create the schematic and there's a clean way to figure out what the between levels would do.

I like this answer a lot. I think using the standard sturdy shield and just allowing a tower variant would suffice. The Tower is already penalized by its bulk value.

Thank you again.

Again thank you all for the replies. Seems there is no 'hard rule' on having a concoction which does both Holy water and Holy oil properties.
I will likely rule that its a higher level item and once they get a recipe or such they can mix it up I suppose. Id rule the cost is 1.5x both Holy Water and Oil as the oil has be a special type.

My friend is old school and is using old 1rst and 2nd edition tricks we thought up in the 80's. The flour would work so I would rule they would at least be concealed if not hidden.


My friend of many years has some old AD&D questions.

Can the player make 'Holy Oil'? (Combining both Oil & Holy water dmg)

Will flour dusted in the air reveal invisible creatures (poor man's detect invis)?

Thanks again.

Thank you for the replies.


I see Alchemical bombs are listed as 'Martial' weapons.
Thus a rogue would not get his proficiency bonus to hit when throwing these.

Is this correct?

What about a Vial of Holy Water or a flask of oil? Are these 'Martial' as well?

Thanks for the input.

The posts about making them a potency rune would be fine but you cannot add runes to shields. At least this is what I am reading.

Its easier (for me) just to make the items from the ground up.

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This is not in the CRB.

What is the reasoning for not creating it and adding it to the game?

Regular 'sturdy' shields are unique magic items per tier.

What stats would you use to create your own 'Minor Sturdy Tower Shield'?

I am likely going to start the campaign with some of the missions/quests from the module 'troubles in Otari' and have the players get started there interacting with folks in Otari. I will also likely use Steelwinds 'festival pie' event as a lead off.

Depending on how things go, if the players reach 2nd level, I may just fire up the lighthouse and that would be a definite 'hook' to get them to go investigate the area and discover the locations below.

So much of Otari is well fleshed out in both the Troubles and beginner box its a shame not to utilize it.

Thanks for this thread!

Ok thanks, I have all three modules to Abomination Vaults and the tunnel seems kind of lame. I am going to change it to an 'inactive' pad.

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Steel_Wind wrote:

Just kicking around what you said about Siora's role as famed assassin with a historical reputation back-in-the-day in Absalom...

I like it. But in order to underscore the link to Absalom - how about changing what is behind the West doors at B7 to another teleportation circle. This one also needs to be awakened - but it is still active on the other side. It leads to someplace in the Siphons beneath the disreputable Puddles district of Absalom. The sort of place that Grandmaster Torch used to hole up in.

Seems to me that Grandmaster Torch is exactly the sort of man who might know the obscure lore behind a centuries dead assassin like Siora.

Besides, any excuse to work in Grandmaster Torch into a campaign is an idea I tend to like! :D

Steelwind, I am not up to date on the lore or Paizo's modules.

What is AV1 which you are referring to?

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I love the set ups (here) that I might just use them as well. I was wondering how to start the adventure and this thread delivers.
Great ideas. Thank you!

To everyone,

Thank you for the VERY helpful responses. This thread gets posted on my discord!

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Greetings and Merry Christmas!

I am starting a new campaign and the players are hashing out who plays what. I have only a couple of requests. Everyone must be good aligned. I want a written background and a goal. We just finished AP2 of the Ashes campaign and wanted to try something less linear and more free form.

I suggested a Lawful Good Orc Cleric and I was immediately told that can never be played.
> Said Cleric would not allow a rogue in the party as stealing is against the law.

I thought it would be a marvelous role play character with the story almost writing itself. How did he become LG? Was he ostracized? How did he get here?

My players feel that the alignment LG can NEVER be played and is never played as written.

My players expressly indicated that a Rogue may NEVER EVER be LG. That his profession by his nature precludes him from such ethics/alignment.

I would like the community to post what the rules say (about Lawful Good) and what can be allowed and how you would play a LG Cleric or Champion/Pally.

Can such a player have a (good aligned) rogue in the party?

Thanks for reading through. All these years with my Best Friend gaming and this 'discussion' is the hot one.

Thank you for the reply.

I've been a long time player of 1rst ed and I completely missed out on kingmaker. Seriously I've been playing since the 70's and somehow never found the Kingmaker series back in 2010.

Not this time around. Now I keep tabs on new stuff and hope to get the 'new' Kingmaker if/when it arrives.

I seem to have missed the boat on the crowd funding project which I can find via google.

Is the 10th anniversary release of Kingmaker going to be for the Pathfinder 2E game system?

Is there still a way to pre purchase this?

What is the ETA for release, was it delayed?



I am not familiar with the details or setting of Kingmaker.

My group has been plodding along in the Ashes campaign and I am frustrated with how little hook there is to get the group interested in 'going thru a portal'

The 3rd AP leaves very little reason for the party to investigate the dreamgate...my bias aside....>

We are considering starting a new campaign and a player suggested if i was going to do a more free form campaign to use the Kingmaker setting How different is this setting from the one currently established for Pathfinder 2E Lost omens?


Does Paizo have any large poster size maps of Golarian similar in size to the very first color-hex maps of Greyhawk?

I still have those maps and laminated them. I was hoping to get ones for Golarian and do the same.

Ok we were playing that wrong. The Rogue was stating that he gets to apply his 2 xtra dice of precise on the initial strike as it states it is 'added' to the debilitation.

Just to be clear nobody allows the rogue to apply the precise debilitation on the initial strike which also happens to be striking a flat footed foe.

Thank you for that session I allowed the rogue to do this but wanted clarification.

If the rogue is 10th level and uses twin feint. On the first attack the target becomes flat footed and on the follow up attack the target is flat footed.
Would Precise debilitations apply?

My player took the feats to acquire Precise debilitations.

Player has debilitation Strike Free action. He is 10th level and took Precise debilitation.

Now the player sneak attacks a creature. He set up twin feint and the second attack is going to be a sneak attack if it his.

Will debilitating strike coupled with Precise debilitating strikes apply (thus having the rogue roll 4d6 instead of his 2d6)?

Just to be clear. Does the rogue get it on the first strike which would be a sneak attack and if not where is the rule that says it applies later on?


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This thread and the answers posted are very helpful. I will change my position on this issue and rule in favor of 'talking out of turn'.

Thanks again Paizo Posters!


The rules are not clear on this and my game has an issue with what you can do out of turn.

Here is the example > Players initiative, he rolls to intimidate an NPC in combat. He declares he wants to know what happens next. I say, you have to wait until that NPC's turn in initiative to find out.

At this point the game devolved into arguing stating that the NPC or anyone can talk freely/surrender out of turn.

Now the rules are not entirely clear. It says if a player can act they can always say a few words here. My end of the argument is the word act, meaning you only get to act on your turn yet the players are stating they can act anytime.

This one trivial thing has upset me so much I am about to stop gaming over it. It allows for folks to cross talk and meta game while in combat when its not their turn.

What is the official stance on something like this? Does the NPC give up while its still the players turn or does the player have to wait until its the NPC's turn to act?

Thank you for the quick replies. The Kobold wizard will be happy.

Greetings Paizo and folks,

The party has been running Ashes and it is now 10th level. The Wizard wants to create a spell that does the following >

It is similar to the door-warden found in the 1rst module of Ashes but it does not attack, instead it simply yells out an alarm.
The player wanted to essentially have a permanent alarm spell to place on various exterior walls around Citadel Alaterien.

Would you allow or disallow this and if so why?

I was leaning on him creating the spell but it would be a ritual which takes time (1-3 days) and a certain amount of gold in materials. I have not made a ruling yet.

Thank you for the reply. Can you give an example which has been a favorite of players here?

Greetings. I have read a bit about how Pf2e does multi-classing. I get the dedication feats. I just do not see any advantage for taking them.

Can some folks here with better understanding please post some examples of very good multi-classing and why and how?

Thanks for your help.

These cards are for Pathfinder 2E > correct?

My apologies for reviving this thread.

I started a thread asking about this very topic. Is there a consensus that Potions do work against this golems curse? RAW it appears they do. RAI I would think not.

So which is it? Will a moderate healing potion (lvl 5) work to heal a fighter in combat with this curse? Is there any official ruling on this? I read through this entire thread and the answer I came with was READ AS WRITTEN, a potion is not a spell and thus would work.

Thanks this became a huge issue. I allowed potions but it seems that high lvl potions should be at least lvl 5 or higher to work.

Greetings we are in game.

Will a CL 6 Moderate Heal potion work on a fighter who has been cursed with Cursed wound?

How would this work?

In our game a critical failure is > you just end your turn for the round. This applies equally to everyone, NPC's, players and Monsters.

We use Fantasy grounds and its pretty easy to keep track and all it does is make player do movement actions and things that do not require a roll first. For example, a fighter will have 3 actions. So first action will not be 'raise shield' (sometimes) or move or another move action and than strike.

This thread is gold. Thanks for the Post.

My friend feels that AC is too high. I said nope it feels right. This led into a discussion.

Can someone post for me a few stats?

What is the maximum AC a 20th lvl Human Fighter can acquire?

What is his maximum (to hit) using a longsword?

What are his hit chances against an Ancient red dragon? no flanking or situational modifiers just two tokens on the board in open ground at melee range for each target.

Thanks in advance.

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I chose those values to be clear on what happens to the shields.

>> Temperans, thank you for the data! It was very helpful to our group and it is most appreciated!

>>KrispyXIV, I was not making any statements about average damage only to make an example that I knew would destroy the shield.

Thanks again. I may just change things and make 'sturdy' a special rune that can be applied ONLY to shields. I am on the fence about this and my wait longer to see what changes are made by Paizo.

Again thanks to everyone posting on this thread!

Excellent. thank you for a clean response!

I see several folks talking about shields being destroyed in a single blow.

For the sake of argument I need answers to the following scenarios:

Sturdy Shield Minor (The shield has Hardness 8, HP 64, and BT 32.) lvl 4.

> 6th Level monster swings with claw and hits. Fighter says he will 'block dmg' with shield. Monster rolls and does 37 dmg. What is the resolution to both the fighter and the shield?

Sturdy shield Lesser (The shield has Hardness 10, HP 80, and BT 40.) lvl 7item

Monster hits with a bite, Fighter wants to block dmg, Damage is rolled its (for the sake of this thread) 100 hp in dmg. What does the fighter take and how much does the shield take?

Can the fighter choose to block AFTER damage is rolled?

Thanks in advance.

I am super happy as well. It arrived Yesterday and its what I peruse while at lunch.

Great job Paizo!

Question > When will the 'books' for Kingmaker be ready? I know you have pledges to fulfill but I missed that boat and would like to get the Adventure Core book and the companion guide.

These answers are very helpful. I like Capn Morgans solution as well. Per the GMG you can roll perception at the start of the game and keep that roll for the first encounter. Which is what i did. The Rogue always rolls his stealth for this and the fighters tend to have high perception which lends to a higher initiative roll. We had 6 players so the fight was a TK and 4 trolls, about 120 on the threat level (severe). Party was 7th lvl.
Arotins solution is also very good.

Thanks again.

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