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Now back when Men were Men and Goblins were CR1 abominations, there were two things that made life good for Monks:
1. The Scaled Fist Archetype that let you bluster your way with Charisma instead of Wis.
2. Dragon Style, which heaped hellacious Damage onto your Unarmed strikes.
And you could combine everything with Power Attack and Cornugon smash for even more damage etc, etc.
But now I notice that Dragon Roar, the upgrade for Dragon Stance (already top tier Damage) has the potential to be the most consistent demoralizer because unlike regular demoralize, the penalty will not decay below 1 as long as you are standing next to them, so potentially, you could open with Roar and keep the penalty on at least one for the entire fight.
But there it ends, as Monks don’t have much synergy with fear. Some strategic multiclassing might solve that as fighters have nice stuff.
So I’m brainstorming for the return of the Scaled Fist, I’ll post more when I’m home, but I think it has potential for a potentially Cha based monk, what do you think fellow forumites?
Sounds good.
You can go towards rogue MC instead of fighter and also grab Flurry of Maneuvers and then:
Not only you frighten people, but those people are automatically flat footed to you.
Those flat footed to you, you deal +1d6 damage
You can Dragon roar into a Flurry of maneuvers, Grabbing two adjacent enemies, to keep them both FRIGHTENED, still, and flat footed for the rest of the party.
Extra points if you picked "str damage on a grab" since as a Dragon monk you most certainly build Str.
Hmm, Rogue sneak attack is agile or finesse only, and Dragon strike is neither of these things, so it's not as synergistic as I originally thought. Dread Striker (Rogue 4) is nice though.
Barbarian also seems like a nice Multi, as you can get 2 free skill feats for the low low price of a Class Feat (Raging Intimidation Barb 1), and Rage is super synergistic with Dragon Style.
You could multi Barbarian and Fighter and also pick up Fearsome Brute (Fighter 10) for always on extra damage (but at 20th level, eesh).
Hmm, Barb is 2 feats, then you switch to either Fighter or Rogue (with Human Ancestry Multitalented 9)?
I'll see what I can come up with in Pathbuilder 2e...
prototype00
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Sneak Attack is superfluous on the Rogue Multiclass, really. The selling point there is a free extra -2 to enemy AC. Which is absurd.
I had a Bard combining that Feat with a Bastard Sword and Dirge of Doom in the playtest and she was very frightening when she had the actions to be. The Monk version is probably better, since they have more action economy enhancers and don't have to spend an action on maintaining the fear every single round.
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Sneak Attack is superfluous on the Rogue Multiclass, really. The selling point there is a free extra -2 to enemy AC. Which is absurd.
I had a Bard combining that Feat with a Bastard Sword and Dirge of Doom in the playtest and she was very frightening when she had the actions to be. The Monk version is probably better, since they have more action economy enhancers and don't have to spend an action on maintaining the fear every single round.
Hmm, yeah that makes a whole lot of sense. Rogue Multi might be the way to go then, take Dread Attacker at 8th level and then start enjoying +3 to hit whoever you're targeting...
(The trick, dear readers, is by the time you finish with one target, hopefully Dragon Roar is off cooldown and you can stick the next target with a massive penalty as well).
If you're going to go with the Barbarian multiclass, I'd say that the best Instinct to go with would be Animal rather than Dragon. Since your main offense comes from Dragon Style, it means that the Animal Instinct's anathema is no problem for you, and if you choose one of the Animals that gets a grapple unarmed strike, like ape, shark, or snake, you get better that grappling your opponents, and thus keeping them afraid of you.
Heck, the Snake instinct isn't even entirely off-brand for you. Just say that your particular style is based off of linnorms rather than true dragons!
If you're going to go with the Barbarian multiclass, I'd say that the best Instinct to go with would be Animal rather than Dragon. Since your main offense comes from Dragon Style, it means that the Animal Instinct's anathema is no problem for you, and if you choose one of the Animals that gets a grapple unarmed strike, like ape, shark, or snake, you get better that grappling your opponents, and thus keeping them afraid of you.
Heck, the Snake instinct isn't even entirely off-brand for you. Just say that your particular style is based off of linnorms rather than true dragons!
Hmm, its a neat idea, but getting yet another 1d10 Unarmed Attack (You already have Dragon Tail) seems a bit superfluous?
Couple of Questions for fellow forumites:
1. I’m wavering between Human and Goblin, Goblin has the better stat spread but humans have Nice Ancestry Feats. (Pick up Ki Strike for even more damage!)
2. How much Cha/Dex/Con would you pick up? Str can go to 18, but would, say 14 in everything else be sufficient (only possible with Goblin) for demoralize shenanigans?
3. Besides Intimidating Prowess, any other Skill Feats I should focus on?
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For a Human stat array I'd likely go...
A: Human (+2 CHA/DEX)
B: Warrior (+2 STR/CHA)
C: Monk (+2 STR)
D: +2 STR/DEX/CON/CHA
If you're willing to take flaws in INT/WIS you can pump your strength up to 18 but if you really want demoralize to be your main thing I think you need to get charisma up to 16.
For a Human stat array I'd likely go...
A: Human (+2 CHA/DEX)
B: Warrior (+2 STR/CHA)
C: Monk (+2 STR)
D: +2 STR/DEX/CON/CHAIf you're willing to take flaws in INT/WIS you can pump your strength up to 18 but if you really want demoralize to be your main thing I think you need to get charisma up to 16.
Hmm, that stat flaw is looking more and more tempting. You just have to play him/her as an unselfaware idiot, which probably fits this kind of monk.
Would Assurance Intimidate mitigate the stat issues (allow you to not boost Cha) you think?
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IMO, Assurance would not help. Adding only Proficiency makes it good for many things, but Demoralize is not usually among them.
However, also IMO, while Cha 16 is useful for this build, Cha 14 (and thus Str 18 without the flaw) is perfectly serviceable. The Intimidate Rogue in my playtest game did just fine with starting Cha 14, and the math is more favorable to the PCs in the final version of the game.
This is particularly true since the Monk will qualify for Intimidating Prowess either way, and qualify for the increased bonus quicker. That nets you better Intimidate on the Str 18 version from at least levels 10-14 (and 20 if you keep investing). That combined with generally superior attacks is a superior option, IMO.
IMO, Assurance would not help. Adding only Proficiency makes it good for many things, but Demoralize is not usually among them.
For a character who's investing in Charisma, definitely, you'd rather be rolling for those sweet crit fishes.
But for a character who isn't? My level 5 barbarian with 8 cha can autodemoralize pretty much everything level 8 or lower and even some level 9 enemies that have bad will saves with assurance and that's pretty sweet.
Intimidating Prowess scaling up is a factor I hadn't considered. With that DMW is probably right.
If you're going to go with the Barbarian multiclass, I'd say that the best Instinct to go with would be Animal rather than Dragon. Since your main offense comes from Dragon Style, it means that the Animal Instinct's anathema is no problem for you, and if you choose one of the Animals that gets a grapple unarmed strike, like ape, shark, or snake, you get better that grappling your opponents, and thus keeping them afraid of you.
Heck, the Snake instinct isn't even entirely off-brand for you. Just say that your particular style is based off of linnorms rather than true dragons!
Hmm, its a neat idea, but getting yet another 1d10 Unarmed Attack (You already have Dragon Tail) seems a bit superfluous?
Couple of Questions for fellow forumites:
1. I’m wavering between Human and Goblin, Goblin has the better stat spread but humans have Nice Ancestry Feats. (Pick up Ki Strike for even more damage!)
2. How much Cha/Dex/Con would you pick up? Str can go to 18, but would, say 14 in everything else be sufficient (only possible with Goblin) for demoralize shenanigans?
3. Besides Intimidating Prowess, any other Skill Feats I should focus on?
In the case of the Animal Barbarian attacks, the main thing you're looking for is not another attack but the Grapple trait on their natural weapons. This allows you to add the Striking Rune's item bonus to any athletics checks you make to grapple, which is not a bad thing to have when you want to keep your scared enemies right next to you so that they'll remain scared.
Just started building this, you can do this +3 to all attacks combo by 8th level, but it will take your 2nd, 4th and 8th Level class Feats to do it (and 6th is Dragon Roar) so kind of intensive.
But once you’re there, you can start to backfill needed low Level Feats (like Stunning Fist and Stand Still) I suppose.
Just started building this, you can do this +3 to all attacks combo by 8th level, but it will take your 2nd, 4th and 8th Level class Feats to do it (and 6th is Dragon Roar) so kind of intensive.
But once you’re there, you can start to backfill needed low Level Feats (like Stunning Fist and Stand Still) I suppose.
This is why human is the best - you can take the multiclass dedication at 9th and take the rogue feats at 10th and 12th levels, using the rest of the slots for set up.
Made a mock up here . Make sure the tower shield is a dragon skull.
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Just started building this, you can do this +3 to all attacks combo by 8th level, but it will take your 2nd, 4th and 8th Level class Feats to do it (and 6th is Dragon Roar) so kind of intensive.
But once you’re there, you can start to backfill needed low Level Feats (like Stunning Fist and Stand Still) I suppose.
This is why human is the best - you can take the multiclass dedication at 9th and take the rogue feats at 10th and 12th levels, using the rest of the slots for set up.
Made a mock up here . Make sure the tower shield is a dragon skull.
Hmm, I'm not sure putting off the acquisition of all the parts makes everything that much better (especially since you end up at the same place once you've taken all the feats). I.e. I kind of like to aim for 8th level for the entire build and then spend the next couple of levels building up Ki points so that I can spam Ki Strike twice per fight.
But I must admit, I'm new to the tinkering so I'm perhaps mistaken.
Edit: By the by, looking for advice here, any must have Skill Feats for this character? I find myself just picking the ones I have the highest proficiency for.
Atalius the Necro here, hoping Prototype finds the advice he seeks above.