energy resistance and temporary hitpoints

[Sc8rpi8n_mjd]

Hi all,

I've looking for an answer in the core rulebook and online regarding how to apply damage in case a character has both energy resistance and temporary hit points, with no success, so I hope you can help me with this.

An example: A character has resistance 5 to acid and 10 temporary hitpoints. An attack hits the character, dealing 15 acid damage. How do you apply damage correctly?

a) The character resists 5 points of damage due to its resistance, and the remaining damage (10) is applied to the temp. hitpoints, reducing them to 0.

b) The caracter first reduces damage using temp. hitpoints (10), leaving 5 acid damage that is entirely blocked by the resistance.

I think the correct answer is a), but I haven't found anything specific in the rules.

Thanks!

[Garretmander]

a) Temporary hit points still work like normal hit points. Effects that reduce damage to normal hit points (DR, resistance) apply before taking damage to temporary hit points.

[Dracomicron]

Garretmander wrote:

a) Temporary hit points still work like normal hit points. Effects that reduce damage to normal hit points (DR, resistance) apply before taking damage to temporary hit points.

Which is a little weird when you're talking about Temporary Hit Points from, say, an energy shield which would take damage before resistance would come into play.

[Garretmander]

Dracomicron wrote:

Garretmander wrote:

a) Temporary hit points still work like normal hit points. Effects that reduce damage to normal hit points (DR, resistance) apply before taking damage to temporary hit points.

Which is a little weird when you're talking about Temporary Hit Points from, say, an energy shield which would take damage before resistance would come into play.

It is, and I kind of wish there weren't temp HP, and only shield points with their own rule, but I suppose wrapping them together makes it simpler.

[breithauptclan]

Sc8rpi8n_mjd wrote:

a) The character resists 5 points of damage due to its resistance, and the remaining damage (10) is applied to the temp. hitpoints, reducing them to 0.

b) The caracter first reduces damage using temp. hitpoints (10), leaving 5 acid damage that is entirely blocked by the resistance.

Is there a difference here?

In both cases the character ends up with zero temporary hit points remaining, but no other damage.

Maybe provide a different example where the outcome is changed based on the order of application?

-------

But I would treat temp HP just like regular HP other than that it gets deducted before stamina or regular HP does. So apply the energy resistance or damage reduction first, then deduct temp HP, then take any remaining damage from stamina/HP.

[Garretmander]

breithauptclan wrote:

Sc8rpi8n_mjd wrote:

a) The character resists 5 points of damage due to its resistance, and the remaining damage (10) is applied to the temp. hitpoints, reducing them to 0.

b) The caracter first reduces damage using temp. hitpoints (10), leaving 5 acid damage that is entirely blocked by the resistance.

Is there a difference here?

In both cases the character ends up with zero temporary hit points remaining, but no other damage.

Maybe provide a different example where the outcome is changed based on the order of application?

-------

But I would treat temp HP just like regular HP other than that it gets deducted before stamina or regular HP does. So apply the energy resistance or damage reduction first, then deduct temp HP, then take any remaining damage from stamina/HP.

10 temp HP, resist 5, 13 damage.

If temp HP first, you lose all temp HP and take no damage. If resistance first, you're left with 2 temp HP.

[Pantshandshake]

I would think you would subtract the amount from energy resistance right off the top, regardless of what pool the damage is going into.

[Dracomicron]

Pantshandshake wrote:

I would think you would subtract the amount from energy resistance right off the top, regardless of what pool the damage is going into.

I mean, we're already considering the character's armor class based on what armor they're wearing before damage is even done in the first place. Strictly speaking, your force field would take a hit before your armor is even calculated.

It's all abstracted anyway, so we shouldn't worry too much about order of operations.

[Joe Pasini]

Sc8rpi8n_mjd wrote:

An example: A character has resistance 5 to acid and 10 temporary hitpoints. An attack hits the character, dealing 15 acid damage. How do you apply damage correctly?

a) The character resists 5 points of damage due to its resistance, and the remaining damage (10) is applied to the temp. hitpoints, reducing them to 0.

Sc8rpi8n_mjd wrote:

I think the correct answer is a), but I haven't found anything specific in the rules.

You are correct!

Apply any resistance or damage reduction, then deduct from temporary Hit Points, Stamina Points, and/or Hit Points (in that order).

[Sc8rpi8n_mjd]

Thank you everyone for helping me out with this.

[Metaphysician]

The alternative is having a far, far more complicated combat system, where avoidance and armor are two completely separate mechanics applied in different steps, just for one thing. The occasional oddity like shields taking damage after resistance is totally worth it for the game actually being playable.

[Nerdy Canuck]

Metaphysician wrote:

The alternative is having a far, far more complicated combat system, where avoidance and armor are two completely separate mechanics applied in different steps, just for one thing. The occasional oddity like shields taking damage after resistance is totally worth it for the game actually being playable.

There are games that do this, and they are certainly playable, but they're typically dice pool games - which means that there is a far more meaningful difference created, overall. There is something very different about opposed rolls where a +1 is a five percent difference versus, say, rolling 3 dice against 15.

[Metaphysician]

The other thing is, dice pool systems tend to use one singular mechanic to resolve *everything* in the game, with different actions defined solely by which stats are used to size the dice pools. Its a lot easier to incorporate multiple aspects to combat if they use the same rules as everything else.

To draw from the obvious example, most classic White Wolf games do indeed distinguish between avoidance and armor. However, its still an at-most two step process: opposed roll to see if the attack hits, then either an opposed roll or a static comparison to see whether the hit does damage ( depending on the game ). Anything that makes you harder to hit adds to the first opposed roll, and anything that makes you harder to damage adds to that second roll/comparison.

Whereas here, you theoretically have a *lot* of independent steps:

1. Roll an attack versus the target's avoidance, success means a hit.

2. Apply miss chance ( which by current rules, happens after the initial attack "hits" )

3. Apply effect of shields, somehow ( reducing raw damage? )

4. Apply the deflection chance of armor, somehow ( percent chance to bounce attack? another attack roll? flat or percent damage reduction? )

5. Apply protective properties on character themselve, like natural armor and damage/energy resistance, somehow?

Between them you've got for mechanics "Standard d20 roll vs a target number", "Percentile roll vs a target number", "fixed value substraction vs a damage total", "separate temporary pool of hit points, with effects out of order", and possibly a few others. Most of these game mechanics not being routinely or ever used for other purposes.