I'm looking for a possible MCD to run with a spiked fists ruffian, likely to use Poison Weapon and Twist the Knife, a sort of persistent damage/debuff punch man.
I've heard that Alchemist MCD can bring a lot to the table with it's daily batches and such, and was wondering if anyone had good experiences and tips to share.
well, for your character concept, you probably want to focus on poisons. I'm not convinced that's a good use of alchemist Multiclassing (took me a minute to figure out what you mean with "MCD", hope I got it right).
Your Advanced Alchemy level is always about 5 level behind your character level so the poisons you can create from your batches will probably be a bit weak for your level. Potent Poisoner is mostly out of reach (can't get it before level 20). But then again, you craft those poisons for free,so it's not like you're losing all that much even if they are resisted often.
Other than poisons, I'd say create mostly utility stuff with your batches. A few Darkvision Elixirs will allow your party to be more sneaky (no need to carry a lightsource), handing out some antidotes before entering a cave full of spiders will probably save someone and so on. Having free Elixirs of Life will probably also be awelcome addition to any party.
well, for your character concept, you probably want to focus on poisons. I'm not convinced that's a good use of alchemist Multiclassing (took me a minute to figure out what you mean with "MCD", hope I got it right).
Your Advanced Alchemy level is always about 5 level behind your character level so the poisons you can create from your batches will probably be a bit weak for your level. Potent Poisoner is mostly out of reach (can't get it before level 20). But then again, you craft those poisons for free,so it's not like you're losing all that much even if they are resisted often.
Other than poisons, I'd say create mostly utility stuff with your batches. A few Darkvision Elixirs will allow your party to be more sneaky (no need to carry a lightsource), handing out some antidotes before entering a cave full of spiders will probably save someone and so on. Having free Elixirs of Life will probably also be awelcome addition to any party.
Is it MCD or Multiclassing or Archetype? I heard all three used in reference to multiclassing into other classes. Poison Weapon will give me some free poisons that deal weak damage but it adds on top of everything, so that's not a bad thing. I was mainly considering Alchemist for more free poisons, even if they're not as strong as a pure alchemists, over time it should become a big lump of coins saved I reckon? I need to read a bit more into alchemist and the archetype, any suggestion on what feats when give a good result?
I've never read MCD before myself. I think multiclass is probably the easiest one to use.
The thing is, most poison's don't even have a high DC for their own level. Lagging 5 levels behind doesn't exactly help.
Take level 20 as an example. The best poison you can create via batches at that level has a DC of 37. Among the level 20 creatures in the bestiary, there is only a single one that doesn't auto-succeed on that check (barring natural 1s), and even that one succeeds on a 5. An alchemist could create a DC 46 poison at that level, which would have at least about 30-40% chance to work against most level 20 creatures.
Again, the poison is more or less free (if you ignore the pretty steep entry cost of 3 class feats) so it doesn't hurt if it fails. I would just not focus on it too much and see what else that alchemist multiclassing can do for me (like aforementioned utility Elixirs).
As for what feats to take, I'd honestly stick with Dedication and the two feats improving your advanced alchemy levels. For other base classes, I'd say maybe pick up Quick Bomber for a swift bomb to the face, but rogues can get quick draw anyway, which is just a better version. I also just realized that you can't go beyond trained in Alchemist class DC, so even getting Potent Poisoner at level 20 would probably not do much for you.
Let me stress again that I'm a big fan or Alchemist Multiclassing. I just think doing it only for poisons will proabably come up with disappointing results.
I've never read MCD before myself. I think multiclass is probably the easiest one to use.
The thing is, most poison's don't even have a high DC for their own level. Lagging 5 levels behind doesn't exactly help.
Take level 20 as an example. The best poison you can create via batches at that level has a DC of 37. Among the level 20 creatures in the bestiary, there is only a single one that doesn't auto-succeed on that check (barring natural 1s), and even that one succeeds on a 5. An alchemist could create a DC 46 poison at that level, which would have at least about 30-40% chance to work against most level 20 creatures.
Again, the poison is more or less free (if you ignore the pretty steep entry cost of 3 class feats) so it doesn't hurt if it fails. I would just not focus on it too much and see what else that alchemist multiclassing can do for me (like aforementioned utility Elixirs).
As for what feats to take, I'd honestly stick with Dedication and the two feats improving your advanced alchemy levels. For other base classes, I'd say maybe pick up Quick Bomber for a swift bomb to the face, but rogues can get quick draw anyway, which is just a better version. I also just realized that you can't go beyond trained in Alchemist class DC, so even getting Potent Poisoner at level 20 would probably not do much for you.
Let me stress again that I'm a big fan or Alchemist Multiclassing. I just think doing it only for poisons will proabably come up with disappointing results.
So what you're saying is that since the enemies are too strong and resist said poisons, I should instead poison the waterwell and extort the commoners who can't?
I'll take a look at elixirs and mutagens, maybe they can supplement a rugged ruffian lifestyle better. I was mostly considering Fighter for the free-hand strikes and feats, but it's a bit shame because I won't use the martial proficiencies fighter provides. Elixir chugging reminds me a bit of GW2 Engineer, just need a blunderbuss.
Smokesticks and Mistform Elixirs seem nice for rogues, you can hide with the former and if it is unwise to do so (party needs to see, enemy has wind, etc) the latter is a nice quick defense. Cheetah Elixir becomes nice for you for flanking and mitigating the drawback of stone body elixir. Cat's Eye Elixirs are nice to hand out to the party, but if you plan on making concealment blindfight is better for you. If you intend to take mutagens I recommend grabbing Revififying Mutagen so you can end the drawback when it starts hurting too much. The healing isn't worthwhile generally but it comes with erasing a debuff.
I have thought the same, but as mentioned poisons being 5-ish levels behind realllllly hurts their effectiveness. But another play in my group is playing a Alchemist main, so he just makes me some full strength poisons in the morning for me to use that day.
And FYI the highest level injury poison so far is only level 13. Hopefully will have more before reaching that level is a concern.
Does the level matter a lot on the self-buffing elixirs?
Let's say we drop poisons because they don't scale well enough, do elixirs stay potent and relevant because they just buff you?
It could be a nice witcher vibe.
Higher level elixirs give better benefits, but plenty give nice effects even at moderate levels. I'm not impressed by the level 1 selection, but 2-4 have some tricks I can see staying useful at high levels. There is definitely plenty levels 15 and below to choose from it you go all the way. Stay away from anything that gives attack bonuses or counteract effects, and healing will never be a good in-combat option though maybe speeding up out of combat healing is valuable to your group.
The various mutagens and elixirs can still have a fantastic range of effects, and even the healing isn't to bad. I would say that bombs can still be useful too, but in niche situations when you can take advantage of weaknesses.
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And FYI the highest level injury poison so far is only level 13. Hopefully will have more before reaching that level is a concern.
While correct, this most likely doesn't apply here. Corvo is asking about a rogue using poison and the rogue's Poison Weapon ability allows them to apply a contact poison to a weapon.
I'm just going to assume that was the plan, anyway.
This makes dragon bile (level 15 contact poison) the feasible poison for this particular character.
As was pointed out in a different thread, MC alchemists can make healing elixirs which at lvl 20 will yield 1960 healing on average rolls per day if all reagents are used for said healing elixirs. That seems like a worthwhile contribution to the party...
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Take level 20 as an example. The best poison you can create via batches at that level has a DC of 37. Among the level 20 creatures in the bestiary, there is only a single one that doesn't auto-succeed on that check (barring natural 1s), and even that one succeeds on a 5. An alchemist could create a DC 46 poison at that level, which would have at least about 30-40% chance to work against most level 20 creatures.I'm a bit confused here. Both Tears of Death and Black Lotus Extract have DCs in the 40's. I'm probably misunderstanding what Blave said; I'm just seeking some clerification because it seemed to me like poisons had a generally better rep in PF2E than previously.
And I'm also now considering a poisoner alchemist who multiclasses into rogue so they can apply a wider array of poisons to their weapons. Should be pretty nasty.
As a MC Alchemist you only get to advance your Advanced Alchemy to 15th lvl. Which means that you'd have to craft the lvl 20 poisons the hard and expensive way. (which of course you could choose to do)