Returning Rune, and other Thrown Weapon questions

[Ian Johnstone]

I have some questions about using weapons with a Returning rune on it.

1) Is an Interact action required on return?
2) How do thrown melee weapons handle the Reload property?
3) Does a melee weapon with the thrown quality qualify for the damage bonus from Point Blank Shot?
4) If no to question 1, could you Double Shot or Triple Shot with a Thrown Returning weapon?

I am just thinking about a fighter bouncing starknives off his enemies. Would they be able to benefit from the fighter ranged attack feats?

[Alchemical Wonder]

1) No
2) They don’t. It returns to your hand, no reload necessary. Or drops to the ground in your space if you can’t or choose not to grab it.
3) No. Its a Melee weapon not a Ranged weapon. I’d probably let you, myself.
4) Yes. It returns at the end of each strike. Besides which, it needs to be a Ranged weapon with Reload 0 not “-“ as with Thrown Darts. That means bows and shuriken only by the weapon tables.

Depends on the requirements of the feat. Haven’t put much effort into that just yet.

Edit: Made a mistake on question 4.

[mavbor]

Now the big important question. Can you throw a weapon without the throw trait. Lets say your longsword.

Because if so I really want to be a longbow user who instead of firing arrows throws his bow at the enemy. Add returning to the bow of course.

Just thinking about it makes me giggle. When i see the rest of the parties reaction at the begging of combat when i throw my bow would be priceless.

[Alchemical Wonder]

Sure. That’s an improvised weapon.

[Arachnofiend]

Is there a practical way to use shuriken that doesn't involve putting Returning on a single shuriken? Feels a bit odd to treat it the same way you'd treat a hand axe considering it used to be considered ammunition.

[Castilliano]

mavbor wrote:

Now the big important question. Can you throw a weapon without the throw trait. Lets say your longsword.

Because if so I really want to be a longbow user who instead of firing arrows throws his bow at the enemy. Add returning to the bow of course.

Just thinking about it makes me giggle. When i see the rest of the parties reaction at the begging of combat when i throw my bow would be priceless.

So a bow-merang?

(I think the weapon may need the "Thrown" property too.)

And thank you Arachnofiend for pointing out that shuriken are "reloaded" as I wondering how one might Flurry those.

[Alchemical Wonder]

DM decides what traits an improvised weapon has. Considering that he intends to throw it, giving the bow the Thrown trait is reasonable. Maybe give it a range increment of five feet because it’s unwieldy to throw.

You could do the same with any object, including those that already have legitimate functions. Want to end someone rightly? Throw your sword’s pommel. Improvised weapon. Want to pretend you’re a professional wrestler? Grab a chair. Improvised weapon. Idolize Captain America? Throw that shield. Improvised weapon.

The absurd possibilities are only limited by your imagination and your DM’s patience.

[Zwordsman]

Huh. I j ust looked up improvised.

I had thought this whole time you wouldn't be trained in it. but it doesn't cover that. just -2...

so I guess you use default for that item p rofiency? So non proficient for most.

but if you threw a weapon that you have proficiency in, you still get that. just a -2 no? so a fighter could throw an improvised pretty decently if it was a martial weapon. Huh neat.

[graystone]

Arachnofiend wrote:

Is there a practical way to use shuriken that doesn't involve putting Returning on a single shuriken?

Well until you get high enough to get a returning one, you can just buy a pile of them as they cost the same as arrows but weight nothing: you can carry "vast numbers" x4 of them in a beltpouch.

[Zwordsman]

Which would functionally work if you also had quick draw. Though without quick draw, it kinda sucks a tad.

I do wish there was some sort of throwing gloves. Kind of like Handwraps So you could add properties to thrown ranged weapons. Darts, shurikens and the like.

I really wish I could get Wounding throwing weapons, but cant' really do that till lv 10+ where you can get returning and wounding. and only with melee weapons with thrown trait. (so.. Dagger or Starknife)

[graystone]

Zwordsman wrote:

Which would functionally work if you also had quick draw. Though without quick draw, it kinda sucks a tad.

It has a reload of 0 so the act of drawing and attacking are the same action.

Zwordsman wrote:

I do wish there was some sort of throwing gloves. Kind of like Handwraps So you could add properties to thrown ranged weapons. Darts, shurikens and the like.

It'd be nice.

[Zwordsman]

Oh Holy carp. I thougth shuriken were reload - like darts.
Awesome possum. That'll help some of my alchemists grief. Sadly won't help the enchantment issue.

But hey it works nicely for that Alchemist of mine with Hunt Target, Same range as Bombs and just as easy to throw.

I'm so sad it can't get Wounding though. (I just want bleed DoT. maybe look at wasy to get the crit property)

Thanks for pointing that out.

[Arachnofiend]

I think you'd need to be a Human with Unconventional Weaponry to assume availability of shuriken as an Alchemist. Are shuriken uncommon because they're a Tien weapon or are they uncommon because they're supposed to be exclusive to Monks?

[graystone]

Arachnofiend wrote:

Are shuriken uncommon because they're a Tien weapon or are they uncommon because they're supposed to be exclusive to Monks?

*shrugs and looks around* Yes? It could be it needs special training, you grew up in a certain culture, or come from a particular part of the world, PF2 finds it problematic, it's Taco Tuesday... I guess we'll have to wait for the Tien book to come out an hope they have revised rarities.

[sherlock1701]

Arachnofiend wrote:

I think you'd need to be a Human with Unconventional Weaponry to assume availability of shuriken as an Alchemist. Are shuriken uncommon because they're a Tien weapon or are they uncommon because they're supposed to be exclusive to Monks?

If you have a monk in the party he could buy them for you.

[Zwordsman]

Personally I'm picking it up via the human feat (As a half elf)
May retrain it later for a STarknife at lv 10+ when I want Item Bonuses, wounding and returning.
Prior to that Probably most of my item bonus from QuickSilver mutagen if the HP does't become an issue.

(THough if one went pure human. Could start with prof in an Aklys I suppose).

Pretty sure I can start the game with sevearal shuriken if I start with the profiency.. But I"m actually not sure on that detail. Resupplying might be an issue until later when I get the formula (well unelss I can start the game with that craft formula). But. AFAIK they won't break when throwing. (though feel free to correct me. I'm working off Nethys not the book yet)

(backstory of the character supports knowing it in various ways. as a sidenote)

[Alchemical Wonder]

Shuriken don’t have the Consumable trait so there’s no reason to believe they can’t be recovered and reused. Same with mundane ammunition as well as Ghost Ammunition.

[Castilliano]

Shuriken are in the darts group.
Darts have the critical effect of bleeding.
Monastic Weaponry Monks w/ Brawling Focus have access to the critical effects of Monk weapons...at level 2!

So with reload: 0, such a Monk could flurry shuriken, which are agile, getting a decent chance of bleed every round.
At level 4, they could grab Stunning Fist and stun with them.
Tee hee.

(Note that this isn't actually all that effective, just funny, and with feats that are useful anyway.)

[Zwordsman]

Sounds fun on a bun.
I wish I could get crit spec in darts on my alchemist. Can't really see a way as of yet. Would be hard to proc anyway.

I will make that monk now though.

[Vlorax]

Castilliano wrote:

Shuriken are in the darts group.

Darts have the critical effect of bleeding.
Monastic Weaponry Monks w/ Brawling Focus have access to the critical effects of Monk weapons...at level 2!

So with reload: 0, such a Monk could flurry shuriken, which are agile, getting a decent chance of bleed every round.
At level 4, they could grab Stunning Fist and stun with them.
Tee hee.

(Note that this isn't actually all that effective, just funny, and with feats that are useful anyway.)

For added fun multiclass into Dragon Instinct Barb, take Raging thrower and toss flaming shuriken's. or Barb/Monk for more dmg

[graystone]

Castilliano wrote:

So with reload: 0, such a Monk could flurry shuriken

You could in the playtest but you can't now: Monastic Weaponry = "You can use melee monk weapons with any of your monk feats or monk abilities that normally require unarmed attacks"

Now what you CAN do is multiclass a monk into ranger then take Basic Hunter's Trick [Hunted Shot]: this does the same thing as flurry and you can hunt prey to "ignore the penalty for making ranged attacks within your second range increment" which is pretty nice for a 20' range weapon. At 6th take Advanced Hunter's Trick [far shot] and now you can flurry 80' with Shuriken with no penalty.

Now if there was a way to bump up the damage die.

[Castilliano]

graystone wrote:

Castilliano wrote:

So with reload: 0, such a Monk could flurry shuriken

You could in the playtest but you can't now: Monastic Weaponry = "You can use melee monk weapons with any of your monk feats or monk abilities that normally require unarmed attacks"

Now what you CAN do is multiclass a monk into ranger then take Basic Hunter's Trick [Hunted Shot]: this does the same thing as flurry and you can hunt prey to "ignore the penalty for making ranged attacks within your second range increment" which is pretty nice for a 20' range weapon. At 6th take Advanced Hunter's Trick [far shot] and now you can flurry 80' with Shuriken with no penalty.

Now if there was a way to bump up the damage die.

Ahh...you've wounded my concept!

But yes, Ranger was on the list of options for a shuriken build anyway. Point Blank Shot would have to wait until 9th.
Or...Fighter core, Monk MCD, then Ranger MCD at 9th (ancestry).
Maybe easier to get access through human at that point though.
And still suffers so much compared to bows...

As for a Barb throwing them, since shuriken are agile, the Barb's damage bonus is half, so quite a blow.

[Zwordsman]

huh. Q uick random question here.

Hunted Shot
You take two quick shots against the one you hunt. Make two Strikes against your prey with the required weapon. If both hit the same creature, combine their damage for the purpose of resistances and weaknesses. Apply your multiple attack penalty to each Strike normally.

So "apply your MAP to each strike normally" That basically means you chose one to be 0 and one to be -5? So the only benefit is the action economy right?
both are not at the same MAP right?
(my alch was already going Ranger dip, but I had forgotten this feat)

[Alchemical Wonder]

Action economy and less waste against resistances because the damage is combined before resistance is applied. Two strikes would be better if you were exploiting a weakness.