Shield Spell heightening


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

I am just starting to wrap my head around the different notations for heightening spells. Sometimes there is a + followed by a number, and sometimes there is a specific level listed.

So for the shield spell they list improvements for heightening for 3rd,5th,7th, 9th level.
Is there any reason they couldn't just use: "Heightened (+2) The shield's hardness increases by 5"
Seems like it would have saved space. Or am I missing a reason to list out specific levels for heightening in this case?


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Don't have the books yet, but if each heightening is spelled out, I'd expect at least one of them to be more or less than hardness +5.

If each increase is exactly +5, it might have been different at some point in development, which made it necessary listing each level individually.

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I would go with the same 'left from a previous development phase' theory Blave has on this one. Not 'wrong' per se, but it does mar the attempt at consistency a little bit and cause questions (such as this one).


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Yeah.. I guess they could have just said "Heightened (+2) The hardness increases by 5." and that would have gotten the point across...

It is nice to just glance and see the total hardness without having to do any math...

I wonder if it was a space/editing thing. Shield appears at the end of the page. The 3 extra lines it takes to list out all of the levels, instead of just writing the shorthand, very nicely squares off the page visually. I can see that as the sort of thing that makes an editor crack a small smile :)


Isn't Shield a cantrip?


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Franz Lunzer wrote:
Isn't Shield a cantrip?

Yes,and ?


Franz Lunzer wrote:
Isn't Shield a cantrip?

It is. But that doesn't really change anything, does it?


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Franz Lunzer wrote:
Isn't Shield a cantrip?

If you are unaware, cantrips automatically heighten


I don't remember, but are cantrips 1st level spells? In PF1 they were 0th level spells, so Heightened (+2) would make it a 2nd/4th/6th/8th level spell instead of 3rd/5th/7th/9th level?


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Franz Lunzer wrote:
I don't remember, but are cantrips 1st level spells? In PF1 they were 0th level spells, so Heightened (+2) would make it a 2nd/4th/6th/8th level spell instead of 3rd/5th/7th/9th level?

Cantrips automatically scale, starting at 1st.


Franz Lunzer wrote:
I don't remember, but are cantrips 1st level spells? In PF1 they were 0th level spells, so Heightened (+2) would make it a 2nd/4th/6th/8th level spell instead of 3rd/5th/7th/9th level?

Well, they are automatically cast at the level of the highest spell you can cast. So having them be 0-level wouldn't really make any sense, since everyone starts out casting 1st level spells anyway, which would heighten them to 1st level. So it should be 3/5/7/9.


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jdripley wrote:
I wonder if it was a space/editing thing. Shield appears at the end of the page. The 3 extra lines it takes to list out all of the levels, instead of just writing the shorthand, very nicely squares off the page visually. I can see that as the sort of thing that makes an editor crack a small smile :)

I am a copyeditor, and we absolutely do things like that and smile over them x)


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Grumpus wrote:


Is there any reason they couldn't just use: "Heightened (+2) The shield's hardness increases by 5"
Seems like it would have saved space. Or am I missing a reason to list out specific levels for heightening in this case?

+5 doesn't match. The base hardness is 4. That would lead to 4, 9, 14, 19 hardness instead of the the intended 4, 10, 15, 20.


I would think they write it out that way because it's a cantrip. You can just do "Heightened +1" on a level one spell that gets better with every higher spell slot you use for it because you're actually picking a higher level slot. Cantrips cant be put into a higher spell slot. they just improve. So you can't say +3 since you arent using a higher level spell, you're just using an improved spell on base.

Dunno if they're all like that, but that's my guess. Also, are cantrips even counted as 0 level spells, or just their own category? if the latter, then you cant add +3 to somethign that doesnt have a number.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

Draco18s wrote:
Grumpus wrote:


Is there any reason they couldn't just use: "Heightened (+2) The shield's hardness increases by 5"
Seems like it would have saved space. Or am I missing a reason to list out specific levels for heightening in this case?
+5 doesn't match. The base hardness is 4. That would lead to 4, 9, 14, 19 hardness instead of the the intended 4, 10, 15, 20.

I don't have my book with me, but I am pretty sure the base hardness is 5, otherwise I wouldn't have started the thread.(i could be wrong)

The most compelling reason is that maybe because of being a cantrip (which are NOT 0-level spells) the level of the cantrip itself is always ever-changing (level-1 at PC levels 1 & 2 etc) so it doesn't make sense to use the "+" notation.

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