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So I was talking with my friends about using lore to gain intelegence alternatives to wisdom based skills. The idea of lores in general is you can't use them to completely replace the existing skills. I came up with a few useful ones and what the limitations they offer compared to the main skill.
•Lore Theology: You know the history, major cults, denominations, public rituals, symbols and core tenets of religions. For more specific aspects of individual faiths, you have to roll a step higher DC of that required by religion. This does not give you access to secret teachings of faiths or knowledge regarding outsiders.
•Lore Barbery(as in medieval barbers, lay surgeon) or Medic: You are trained in treatment of tramatic injuries and minor surgery including removing projectials and shrapnel, lancing infections, stanching wounds, stiches, setting bones and splinting. You can identify diseases or poison at a step higher DC than required by medicine. You can not use it for long term treatment with mundane medicines and cures.
•Lore Herbalism/Pharmacy: basically the inverse of Barbery/Medic lore. Knowledge of mundane medical compounds and treatments, limited diagnosis abilities, no knowledge of surgery or advanced first aid of tramatic injuries.
What do you all think about these? Do you have any of your own Lores that come to mind like this?
This idea isn't without precedent, but these sound more like skill feats rather than just skills.
The Chirgeon, an alchemist path, as long as they trained in medicine, they can use crafting for medicine roles.
For reference, the equivalent bomber skill is that they can deal splash damage only to their primary target.
I think I would need to see the list of new skill feats to see when and if this is an appropriate skill feat.
I certainly agree there could be good skill feats that work better but, like the example of the alchemist, what if i was going to focus on mutagens, I still could have a solid understanding of pharmaceutical treatment. The lore skill would neatly fill that role.
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What do you all think about these? Do you have any of your own Lores that come to mind like this?
Lore: Theology seems too broad, like it would encompass all of Religion. From the playtest, being an Acolyte got you Lore{Your Diety}.
Agree on the Lore/Barbery being a benefit of the Alchemist/Churgeon.No complaints about Lore/Herbalism: seems like a specific subset of what you could otherwise get from Nature/Medicine/maybe even survival.
Edit: My take on what New Lores should look like, based on what we've seen in the playtest.
a) It should only be useful to Recall Knowledge or Practice a Trade during downtime. (Barbery fails this test)
b) It should be more narrow in scope than the closest existing skill. (I believe Theology fails this test, compared to the Lore{Your Diety} from the playtest)
Lore Theology...that would be the Religion skill I guess
Besides that I agree with FWB
The Barbery and Pharmacy are also things that are already covered with Medicine, yes you want to get away from wisdom but no, you shouldn't try it like that
trying to use lore as alternative for a skill with a different ability... I don't think that fits the mentality of the new edition
I know in Pf1 there were like a dozen abilities like that but we should leave them in the old edition
And Lores that come to mind, well one of my Players will have 'Lore: Bounty Hunter' which helps with gathering informations (about people) a little investigation, estimating if a target is worth the bounty and similar stuff
And since it is a job like for example the scout with his own lore from the playtest it should be more in line
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Lore:Theology can't ID monsters and might not have any insights on the Great Beyond either. Focusing purely mortal organizations and philosophies seems like a fair Lore, but I'd keep it narrowed to specific creeds and sects.
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Lore:Theology can't ID monsters and might not have any insights on the Great Beyond either. Focusing purely mortal organizations and philosophies seems like a fair Lore, but I'd keep it narrowed to specific creeds and sects.
"The herald of Groetus will be the end of us! Quick, priest, how do we pierce their defences?"
"ok so I can't help you with that but maybe you want to know about the five arguments as to how we can assert the existence of a deifi--" everyone dies
Herbalism lore exists (CRB p248) but is undefined. I would see it as identifying and knowing how to prepare various medicinal plants.
[deity] lore, for example Abadar lore or Iomedae lore, is also on the list, and although it is undefined, it seems like it would deal with knowing about the god's life, known associates and underlings, place in The Great Beyond, and also about his or her church's hierarchy and where on Golarion one might find major centers of worship.
Lore skills seem to be all about knowing things rather than doing things. I'd like to use Sailing lore as a substitute for PF1's Profession (Sailor) checks, but I can't help thinking I'm overstepping the bounds of what a lore skill is supposed to be. Do you make one check to *know* how your sails should be set, and a different check to determine *how successful you are* in setting them optimally? If so, what skill do you use for that?
This question is central to guiding DMs and players in using lore skills. Is it just knowing, or can it also be doing? Earn Income checks suggest it could be a bit of both.
This question is central to guiding DMs and players in using lore skills. Is it just knowing, or can it also be doing? Earn Income checks suggest it could be a bit of both.
That's the key. You Earn Income during downtime with Lore; the example shows Harsk serving tea with his Tea Lore. That said, sometimes there's a better skill to use. Are you trying to navigate via the stars on a ship? Sure, I'd probably allow Sailing Lore in place of Survival. Climbing the rigging or otherwise maneuvering around the ship? That's almost certainly still Athletics or Acrobatics.
Climbing the rigging would certainly be athletics and/or acrobatics. But how would you determine how successfully you trimmed or set the sails? No other skill seems appropriate, so I am tempted to conclude that you could use a lore skill to attempt to accomplish an action the knowledge of which was specific to that lore skill, like Sailing lore in my example.
It seems to me that lore skills can be both knowing something and doing it. Thus making certain lore skills that much more valuable.
Your fame has spread throughout the lands (for instance, if you have Warfare Lore, you might be a legendary general or tactician). This works as Legendary Performer above, except you gain higher-level jobs when you Earn Income with Lore.
A general is definitely a do-er as well as a know-er.