So we're not far into a campaign, and I'm playing a Druid 6/Monk 2.
Feral combat training and master of many styles makes it a good time.
I've also got an animal companion with me, specifically its a bear.
But I had an idea and I need to know if its worth it or not.
In almost all combat scenarios, I'm gonna be wildshaped and can only do melee. I need a ranged person helping me out.
Is it worth casting Permanent Anthropomorphic Animal on my bear, and giving him Mounted Combat and proficiency in a ranged weapon?
Coz bears don't really have any abilities that depend on their claws, so its not like it would be losing things like pounce and rake. Just 2 natural attacks.
Sorry, should have specified. I meant ranged weapons. I do have spells, yes, but they don't always work. I have a bow that I use when not wildshaped, but thats kinda it.
We have 2 other ranged players in the party but they aren't always there.
This is more about if the bear would be better being a warebear haha
Bear don't have a very good dex for ranged attack so is a no from my part
Yeah fair call!
Just thought I'd look into it.
Aesthetically, it would have looked sick for my druid to wildshape and have a Werebear ride a dire Tiger into a fight
I need a ranged person helping me out.
Why? Come next Druid level, you can cast Air Walk, at that point, flying or normally unreachable enemies cease to be a problem. If one of your styles is Dragon Style, you should be able to charge most opponents even now.
The problem with your (rather cool) idea is that archery takes a lot of feats, and since Animal Companions a) lack proficiency) and b) have fewer feats than a PC because of the slower HD progression, there just won't be enough feats to make it worth it.
Oh yeah true!
And yeah, I'm a Master of Many Styles. So I've currently got Dragon and Boar style.
The ranged idea won't work, so its all good! Thought it was worth the ask tho.
Probs no sense in giving the bear a big sword or something if he's already got two claws.
Also question about the monk's unnarmed damage.
As as monk levels up, his damage scales up.
With feral combat training on claws, would the monk class feature scale up the damage on the claws?
No. The original wording of the feat did include "effects that augment an unarmed strike", which did give the option to use the unarmed damage instead of the normal damage, but that part was removed in the second printing of Ultimate Combat. The current wording only applies the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite.
Nah I've ditched the ranged idea at this point haha.
I've already got shaping focus so I'm covered on that front.
In terms of running my druidzilla I've basically got it covered at this point. Thanks guys!!!
Only thing I'm tossing up now is if I cast permanent Anthropomorphic Animal on my bear and give him a Butchering Axe. Damage wise, he'd deal more. A max of 34 at level 8 instead of max damage of 29.
And bears don't have rake or pounce so he wouldn't really have any special abilities to lose. I'm just not 100% sure if he'd be better off as a regular bear, or a werebear.
No. The original wording of the feat did include "effects that augment an unarmed strike", which did give the option to use the unarmed damage instead of the normal damage, but that part was removed in the second printing of Ultimate Combat. The current wording only applies the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite.
So am I right in assuming that a lot of things that ki lets you do won't apply to natural attacks either?
So am I right in assuming that a lot of things that ki lets you do won't apply to natural attacks either?
Yes, you are. Feral Combat Training only works with feats, period. No class features.
So am I right in assuming that a lot of things that ki lets you do won't apply to natural attacks either?Yes, you are. Feral Combat Training only works with feats, period. No class features.
Ah oh well
I'll still make it work!
What, did they get mad about the cave druid thing? It's still quite strong.
Why would a Cave Druid ever use unarmed strike damage instead of the 7d8?
Why would a Cave Druid ever use unarmed strike damage instead of the 7d8?
Oh, ha, I thought they removed all non-feat benefits, but they still allow flurry of blows. So why did they change it at all if they're okay with the cave druid/monk's ridonkulous slam dancing?
Nah I've ditched the ranged idea at this point haha.
I've already got shaping focus so I'm covered on that front.
In terms of running my druidzilla I've basically got it covered at this point. Thanks guys!!!
Only thing I'm tossing up now is if I cast permanent Anthropomorphic Animal on my bear and give him a Butchering Axe. Damage wise, he'd deal more. A max of 34 at level 8 instead of max damage of 29.
And bears don't have rake or pounce so he wouldn't really have any special abilities to lose. I'm just not 100% sure if he'd be better off as a regular bear, or a werebear.
Anthropomorphic Animal doesn't give the bear proficiency with the axe, or any other weapon. So the bear would be at -4 to hit with it. Sounds like a bad idea.
You might consider trading your bear for a different animal companion. One that can ride you so they can benefit from your pounce ability, or that can pounce themselves.
I'm totally aware of that. It would take a feat to be proficient in using the axe, that's totally fine. I'm honestly ok with burning a feat for that.
And character wise, it doesn't make sense for me to just ditch the bear. My character isn't about ditching the bear for something else just coz he can.
I'm just not 100% sure if there are other ways to up its damage output without spending more money and burning more feats (at least 2 to just get feral combat training).
I'm just not 100% sure if there are other ways to up its damage output without spending more money and burning more feats (at least 2 to just get feral combat training).Dip into Mammoth Rider and trade in your bear for an Arsinotherium.
Legit just said my character aint about ditching his bear for something else that might be better.
It's not about getting a better companion. Its about what ways can I make the bear better.
And if feral combat training doesn't benefit from the unnarmed strike, is it worth putting more levels into monk or druid?
Currently Druid 6, Master of Many Styles 2
And if feral combat training doesn't benefit from the unnarmed strike, is it worth putting more levels into monk or druid?
It kinda depends on what you want, but to put it bluntly, even the second level into MoMS is kinda wasted. Advancing your spellcasting will beat out anything when it comes to objectively evaluating the character. You might prefer to focus more on something different (e.g. dipping into Bloodrager or Barbarian to improve the combat prowess), but full casting is by far the strongest class feature in the game, period.
If you want help optimizing your character (or aspects thereof), we'd need to have more information, i.e. ability scores and feats, and also what you want to focus on. Plus books/material allowed.Oh, ha, I thought they removed all non-feat benefits, but they still allow flurry of blows. So why did they change it at all if they're okay with the cave druid/monk's ridonkulous slam dancing?
Yeah sorry, when I said "Feral Combat Training only works with feats, period", I was referring to the OP's character, who can't have FCT's special section apply to them.
As to why it was errata'd? No idea. The "effects that augment" language is rather vague, but the main question (whether the Monk's damage increase works) was actually answered by FAQ.I'll go with my default answer to such questions: Because martials can't have nice things!
As great as spells are, I'm more about wildshaping and doing super cool melee stuff.
Dire Tiger with Dragon and Boar style on its claws is nuts.
I wanna focus more on the melee aspect of things. Using stuff from MoMS (or a another class if necessary) to make wildshape even better.
The other thing is optimizing my bear. To me, its looking like using Anthropomorphic Animal and burning a feat for Exotic Weapon Proficiency so he can use a Butchering Axe seems the way to go. It ups his max damage up 5 points.
And as a bear, he has no special abilities that are dependant on his claws.
I just need a second opinion on if this is the way to go.
I don't want a new companion, I just want to make the bear better.
And as cool as Mammoth Rider sounds, its more dependant on riding the bear. Something I'm not gonna be able to do while wildshaped.
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Outflank is the classic teamwork feat for this build more accuracy is a huge boon to druids that have lower accuracy than other melee types at higher levels.
In place of Anthropomorphic Animal. You could also opt for a grizzly bear companion which has some free grab attempts, this will allow your PC to hit more frequently.
As great as spells are, I'm more about wildshaping and doing super cool melee stuff.
Question here: Do you not count stuff like walking through the air to attack someone on higher ground or flying or otherwise unreachable as "cool stuff"? More Druid levels is not about using spells in combat, in case that's what you were thinking. As a different example, three more levels in Druid grant you access to Animal Growth, which is pretty cool to buff your bear.
I wanna focus more on the melee aspect of things. Using stuff from MoMS (or a another class if necessary) to make wildshape even better.
Well, the 'normal' improvement would be to add more numeric bonuses and more natural attacks. Basically, the opposite of "cool stuff".
I'm still waiting for information on your character (ability scores, feats, etc.) and what material is allowed.
The big issue is, I'm not prepared to change my bear for something else.
Character wise, it just doesn't make sense. They've already been through so much together, he's not about to ditch it for something else.
Again, its not about getting a different companion. Its about making the one I have as good as I can get it. And damage wise (and also aesthetically it would just look freakin cool) Anthropomorphic Animal with a butchering axe seems the way to go.
Unless I'm missing something?
If you don't tell us what your character and pet look like right now, we can not help you.
Legit already said what my pet is...a bear. Specifically a black bear.
And my character is an elf. He's a real cool dude. He's seen some s$&$.
Fav animals tho? I'm loving Dire Tiger. Getting some sweet damage output off that thing. Gonna have feral combat training on claws soon so it'll work super well with the styles I have.
Also isn't Mammoth Rider pretty dependant on riding the companion? Like a lot of bonuses and abilites are only given while mounted?
Oh ok!
I'll have to think about it tho. Coz if ends up being huge, I can only take it so many places. Caves tend to happen sometimes haha.
And I'll have a chat to my GM about keeping the same bear but letting it become Dire. He might allow it?
I got a bit of time to decide on taking Mammoth Rider anyway. My BAB is still one point off. I'll have it by CL9 but it just means that CL10 would be Mammoth Rider if I decided to take it.
The only thing is tho, if I'm wildshaping a lot, I probably won't be mounting it too much.
I'm probably not gonna bother with Hunter or Cavalier. Too many classes might be more of a hinderance. I'm happy to dip into a third, but a fourth might cause more problems.
Thanks for the tips tho!
Defs looking like more levels in Monk aren't really worth it. Especially if I can't use most of the features while Wildshaped anyway.
Would you happen to know what trait allowed lawful Barbarians?
Also weird but also kinda cool idea:
Take a level in Mammoth Rider. Get a huge dire bear. Cast anthropomorphic animal on it. Build it a huge butchering axe. Max damage of 48 before bonuses.
You also tend to get a lot more out of a bloodrager dip compared to a barbarian dip.
Not for a natural attack based character, because two levels can grant an additional natural attack (Gore via Lesser Fiend Totem).
@AnUnlovedLobster: Is there a reason you don't want to tell us your ability scores, feats, and items (dito for the pet)?
Haven't given stats coz I don't have them at the moment.
We play on Roll20 and I haven't been around my computer for a little while.
And I'm in the same mind as Grandlounge. The less level dipping the better, but if I have to level dip, I want thinks where a dip of a few levels actually helps.
Also, I can't seem to find it, but is there a feat that advances divine spellcasting levels?
No, if you want to advance spellcasting, you have to take the respective class levels (either in the original class, or a prestige class with the "Spells Per Day" feature*). There is a trait that helps with caster level for multiclass characters, and some other things increase caster level as well, but for spells per day and the highest level spells you can cast, only actual class levels help.
*) There is a feat that fills the gaps in prestige classes that advance spellcasting only for some levels, but that's only up to the maximum of prestige class levels.
And I'm in the same mind as Grandlounge. The less level dipping the better, but if I have to level dip, I want thinks where a dip of a few levels actually helps.
Well, you won't see me disagreeing (I did already say that advancing your spellcasting is the best you can do, after all), I just wanted to give you options. Additional natural attacks are pretty powerful for a character such as yours, and item-based options with Wildshape are always problematic and GM-dependent.
Magical Knack is a solid trait to grab though. Every little thing helps.
And Mammoth Rider doesn't add spellcaster levels so its not worth grabbing prestigious spellcaster. All good though!
I'm thiking a dip into Mammoth Rider is the way to go.
Probably not gonna dip into Monk anymore. The biggest thing monk adds is bonuses to AC and Unnarmed Damage and I can increase that with Monk robes and a feat (I forget the name but I'll find it).
I feel any more than 3 classes will screw me over more than it'll help.
But I'll grab Mammoth Rider and get the huge bear (and tbh, probably gonna still cast Anthropomorphic animal on it. Huge Werebear with a huge butchering axe has higher damage and also just sounds freaking cool).
And Mammoth Rider doesn't add spellcaster levels so its not worth grabbing prestigious spellcaster.
Yes, I was talking about prestige classes in general and only mentioned the feat for completeness. I don't think there are any other good prestige classes for your build.
I can increase that with Monk robes and a feat (I forget the name but I'll find it).
Why would you want to increase unarmed damage?
You probably mean Monastic Legacy, but even if that would work for you, it wouldn't be worth it.
Nah I think Mammoth Rider is the way to go. Who doesn't love a huge werebear with a huge axe?
If I can justify a fourth class, maybe? But I honestly might dip into Mammoth Rider and then put the rest in Druid. Haven't decided yet tbh.
And I grabbed the robes back when I thought the Monk's unnarmed damage worked with Feral Combat training. Either way though, the robes push my AC something so they're still handy.