I always wonder who writes spell descriptions, and how they manage to get through editing and testing when a lot are so poorly written.
Anyway, this particular question is about wind walk:
Which of these interpretations is correct?
- you finish casting the spell (1 round) and become cloud vapour. You can return to solid form but it takes 5 rounds
OR
- you finish casting the spell and now have the option to turn into vapour but it’ll take 5 rounds.
As you can see from the spell wording below, it isn’t clear which.
“You alter the substance of your body to a cloudlike vapor (as the gaseous form spell) and move through the air, possibly at great speed. You can take other creatures with you, each of which acts independently.
...
A wind walker can regain its physical form as desired and later resume the cloud form. Each change to and from vaporous form takes 5 round....”
The casting time is 1 standard action, but you're right, there spell description isn't clear. Also this seems like a question for the rules subforum. not the advice forum.
I don't think there's an offical clarification how it was intended to work (at least I don't know one), but by RAW it seems that the second interpretation is correct. "Each transformation" includes the first. It is assumed that spell takes effect immediately, unless otherwisse noted - annd here we have a sentence that suggest that the transformation doesn't happen immediately, but takes 5 turns.
I also think that makes sense from the meta-perspective; this is obviously a spell for traveling long distances, not one that is supposed to be used during combat (a combat spell wouldn't have duration measured in hours). Clarifying to the players that the first transformation will take several rounds will counteract possible abuse of the spell.
The "5 trounds" part is only written in the paragraph about changing back and forth, though. I'd say the Gaseous Form effect starts immediately, as per the first sentence.
Adjoint wrote: Clarifying to the players that the first transformation will take several rounds will counteract possible abuse of the spell. What you call "abuse", I call "clever use". That's presuming you make it work, seeing as recipients can't attack or cast spells, and lose all supernatural abilities.
If using a 6th level spell to duplicate the effects of a 3rd level spells is the worst a Cleric comes up with, the GM should consider themself lucky!
VoodooDino wrote: I always wonder who writes spell descriptions, and how they manage to get through editing and testing when a lot are so poorly written. Well, Wind Walk is one of the spells taken from 3.x, and I've always assumed 3.0 was written on drugs. Lots and lots of drugs.
Derklord wrote: The "5 trounds" part is only written in the paragraph about changing back and forth, though. I'd say the Gaseous Form effect starts immediately, as per the first sentence. The first sentence doesn't say that it happens immaediately. Granted, it would be assumed if there were nothing else contradicting it, but alas, there is.
The order in which the mechanics of the spell are written, the the syntax of saying ‘you can change back and forth but takes 5 rounds’, is what makes me think the first form change happens without the 5 round wait.
I know this is by no means clarification for pathfinder, but thought I’d look at how the spell is described in 5e, which is actually much clearer.
5e spell description:
“You and up to ten willing creatures you can see within range assume a Gaseous Form for the Duration, appearing as wisps of cloud. While in this cloud form, a creature has a flying speed of 300 feet and has Resistance to damage from nonmagical Weapons. The only Actions a creature can take in this form are the Dash action or to revert to its normal form. Reverting takes 1 minute, during which time a creature is Incapacitated and can't move. Until the spell ends, a creature can revert to cloud form, which also requires the 1-minute transformation.
I should have mentioned that in 5e the casting time for wind walk is 1 minute.
For fun, I thought I'd look back at the spell in ye olde AD&D books.
It has a longer casting time of 10 minutes, but there's no mechanic of changing into and out of wind form.
I've always run it as the change to gaseous happened upon completion of the spell and only subsequent changes took 5 rounds. Otherwise the casting time would be longer to my thinking. But yes it is not crystal clear as written. Bottom line for me is let your players know your decision perhaps after a discussion and be consistent.
Kayerloth wrote: I've always run it as the change to gaseous happened upon completion of the spell and only subsequent changes took 5 rounds. Otherwise the casting time would be longer to my thinking. But yes it is not crystal clear as written. Bottom line for me is let your players know your decision perhaps after a discussion and be consistent. Thanks. That’s a good ruling and makes sense.
It also brings up a couple more questions I have;
- for changes of form, what do you guys think is happening in the 5 rounds of transformation? Can I act as normal, and on the 5th round I shift form? Do I have to concentrate for the 5 rounds and can’t do anything else? The description of the spell implies it’s up to the individual to change form...?
- and the curious, throw-away wording that mentions 80% chance of mistaking wind walkers who are dressed all in white for clouds or fog.
What’s my percentage if I’m wearing some white? Does all brown give me 80% chance of being mistaken for a fart?
I know this is a lot of analysis into a single spell, but it’s such a useful spell (and no wizard in the party) we’ll end up using it most days.
It is a very old spell. I never played or had access to the original D&D/Chain Mail rules. The earliest I knew about it was in AD&D where it was a max level (7th) cleric spell. There were no 8th or 9th level cleric spells at that time.
Few thoughts
The spell is really meant for travel. That said it doesn't prevent spell casting strictly speaking. You would require the appropriate metamagic feats just as you would when in Gaseous Form.
Keeping in mind the caster can dismiss the spell for an individual (a standard action) I'd rule it takes concentration to transform over 5 rounds, requiring a standard action each of those 5 rounds by the one transforming. I would allow the caster to use a single standard action to dismiss as many individuals as desired.
To be honest I'd probably rework the text concerning 80% chance to be mistaken etc.. I'd probably treat them as if under Chameleon Stride (i.e. +4 to Stealth and 20% miss chance if targeted by someone). At least that's where I'd start and see how it plays out/works in game. And you might get me to up the bonus to Stealth, it just wouldn't be as high as for being Invisible. This portion of the PF text is heavily legacy/cut and paste in nature.
Another point, it never says that whilst in wind walk or gaseous form that you can’t talk.
“It can't attack or cast spells with verbal, somatic, material, or focus components while in gaseous form. “
VoodooDino wrote: Adjoint wrote: ... Also this seems like a question for the rules subforum. not the advice forum.
Sorry about that, new to the layout of these forums. Can I move it or does admin need to do that ? Flagged for movement. The Admins do that.
/cevah
VoodooDino wrote: Another point, it never says that whilst in wind walk or gaseous form that you can’t talk. Well, of course you can talk!
"Dinnae look down, dinnae look down, dinnae look down..."
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