I'm putting my plans for a Half-Orc Lumberjack Dreadnought on hold to focus on a boon I got at a con midMarch.
I have most of the character set, I'm just unsure of weapon loadouts.
I'm making an Aphorite Inquisitor (Tactical Leader) of Torag with the Defense Subdomain. I was initially going to do either Tactics or Chivalry Inquisitions, but they didn't seem to fit right. I'm also thinking of taking a couple levels of Student of War.
That all said, I can't decide whether to two-hand my Warhammer or to go Hammer n' Board.
Stats I'm looking at are: STR/16, DEX/10, CON/13, INT/14, WIS/14, CHA/13
|
Why not wield a reach weapon as your primary weapon? You can carry Torag's hammer as your sidearm and secondary weapon. This would be flat-out more effective than two-handing a warhammer, and might demonstrate superior tactical insight. Your reach screen will tend to provide more defense than would a shield, and the occasional free attacks during the GM's turn from AoOs will add a lot to your damage output. Extra attacks are especially helpful to an Inquisitor once Bane comes online at 5th level.
If your PC has access to the Dwarven Longhammer (martial weapon for a dwarf) that's a great choice, otherwise the longspear remains an excellent choice and superior to the warhammer.
Of course, perhaps do whatever suits your fancy. That said, tactics is Torag's domain, so he'll likely respect and approve of effective tactics.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I am a firm believer in the combo of quick draw and quickdraw light wooden/steel shield plus one-handed weapon. On your turn you can stow the shield as a free action, two hand your weapon, then redraw the shield as another free action.
|
|
I am a firm believer in the combo of quick draw and quickdraw light wooden/steel shield plus one-handed weapon. On your turn you can stow the shield as a free action, two hand your weapon, then redraw the shield as another free action.
@Darigaaz: But why would one want to? Perhaps at high levels, if you have a powerful magic shield, then the shield might provide more defensive value than would a mediocre reach screen. At low levels, without an amped-up shield, a reach screen usually provides more defensive value. So wielding a two handed reach weapon is often more effective on defense, is equally effective on offense, and doesn't cost a feat.
I bring up these tactical points because the OP said the PC will be a tactical leader.
Sadly, Aphorites have a -2 to DEX (+2STR/+2INT) so 10 is about the best I can do without dropping be elsewhere. I'll admit, I hadn't thought of the other weapons Inquisitor gets, aside from knowing that a Ranged weapon isn't going to be my focus. A reach weapon does guarantee an AO on anyone running up to me, and I can always ditch it for the hammer once they're in close.
Leader’s Words (Ex)
Tactical leaders are skilled at speaking soothing words that keep the peace and bolster allies’ resolve. A tactical leader receives a morale bonus on all Diplomacy checks equal to half his inquisitor level (minimum +1).
This ability replaces stern gaze.
Tactician (Ex)
At 3rd level, 9th level, and 18th level, a tactical leader gains a teamwork feat as a bonus feat. He must meet the prerequisites for this feat. As a standard action, the tactical leader can grant one of these feats to all allies within 30 feet who can see and hear him. Allies retain the use of this bonus feat for 3 rounds plus 1 round for every 2 inquisitor levels the tactical leader has. Allies do not need to meet the prerequisites of these bonus feats.
The tactical leader can use this ability once per day at 3rd level, plus one additional time per day at 6th, 9th, 15th, and 18th level.
At 12th level, a tactical leader can use the tactician ability as a swift action. At 18th level, whenever the tactical leader uses this ability, he grants any two teamwork feats that he knows. He can select from any of his teamwork feats, not just his bonus feats.
If the tactical leader also has cavalier levels, these levels stack for determining the number of uses of this ability per day.
This ability replaces solo tactics and teamwork feats.
Battle Acumen (Ex)
At 14th level, a tactical leader can grant his judgment benefits to a single other ally within 30 feet who can see and hear the tactical leader as an immediate action. These benefits last until the beginning of the tactical leader’s next turn. A tactical leader must have a judgment active to use this ability and the benefits granted are the same as those selected by his judgment. A tactical leader can use this ability a number of times per day equal to his Wisdom modifier (minimum 1).
This ability replaces exploit weakness.
Granted Powers
Resistant Touch (Sp): As a standard action, you can touch an ally to grant him your resistance bonus for 1 minute. When you use this ability, you lose your resistance bonus granted by the Protection domain for 1 minute. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
Aura of Protection (Su): At 8th level, you can emit a 30-foot aura of protection for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. You and your allies within this aura gain a +1 deflection bonus to AC and resistance 5 against all elements (acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic). The deflection bonus increases by +1 for every four cleric levels you possess beyond 8th. At 14th level, the resistance against all elements increases to 10. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.
Domain Spells: 1st—sanctuary, 2nd—shield other, 3rd—protection from energy, 4th—spell immunity, 5th—spell resistance, 6th—antimagic field, 7th—repulsion, 8th—mind blank, 9th—prismatic sphere.
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the resistant touch power of the Protection domain.
Deflection Aura (Su): Once each day, you can emit a 20- foot aura for a number of rounds equal to your cleric level. Allies within the aura gain a +2 deflection bonus to AC and combat maneuver defense.
Replacement Domain Spells: 1st—shield, 2nd—barkskin, 7th—deflection.
Native Outsider: Aphorites are outsiders with the native subtype.
Medium: Aphorites are Medium creatures and have no bonuses of penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Aphorites have a base speed of 30 feet.
Darkvision: Aphorites can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
Skilled: Aphorites gain a +2 racial bonus on checks with a single Craft skill of their choice.
Spell-Like Ability: Aphorites can use protection from chaos once per day as a spell-like ability (caster level equal to the aphorite’s class level).
Aphorite Resistances (Ex): Aphorites have electricity resistance 5 and a +2 bonus on saves versus poison and mind-affecting effects.
Crystalline Dust (Su): An aphorite can manifest a haze of crystalline dust that forms into indistinct runes and glyphs surrounding its body. This effect grants the aphorite a 20% miss chance against melee and ranged attacks. Activating this dust is a move action, but it can be maintained each round as a free action. The effect cannot be disrupted, but it ends immediately if the aphorite is killed, paralyzed, stunned, knocked unconscious, or otherwise prevented from taking a free action to maintain it each round. An aphorite can use this ability a number of rounds per day equal to its Hit Dice, but the rounds do not need to be consecutive.
Languages: Aphorites speak Common and either Celestial or Infernal. An aphorite with a high Intelligence score can choose from the following as bonus languages: Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Ignan, Infernal, or Terran.
Aphorite Alternate Racial Traits
PFS Legal Share Knowledge
Source Plane-Hopper's Handbook pg. 14
Certain aphorites have a sliver of their creators’ ability to combine their collective intellect and solve problems they could not solve on their own. When an aphorite with this racial trait successfully uses the aid another action to aid a character on a Knowledge check the aphorite is trained in, the character receives a +4 bonus instead of the normal +2 bonus. As a result of this increased openness, aphorites with this racial trait don’t receive a +2 bonus on saves against mind-affecting effects. This racial trait modifies aphorite resistances.
PFS Legal Planar Envoy
Source Plane-Hopper's Handbook pg. 14
Reflecting their original role as translators and intermediaries, some aphorites are especially skilled at communication. Aphorites with this racial trait begin play speaking Common and either Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Ignan, Infernal, or Terran. Aphorites with this racial trait and a high Intelligence score can choose any languages at character creation (except for secret languages, such as Druidic). They learn two languages rather than one each time they gain a rank in Linguistics. This racial trait modifies languages and replaces skilled.
Eternal Smith
Source Plane-Hopper's Handbook pg. 14
Some aphorites retain knowledge of the techniques axiomites used to create arms to defend Axis. Aphorites with this racial trait choose either Craft (armor), Craft (bows), or Craft (weapons). When crafting items with the chosen skill, aphorites with this racial trait use the item’s gp value as its sp value when determining crafting progress (they do not multiply the item’s gp cost by 10 to determine its sp cost). This racial trait replaces the spell-like ability racial trait.
PFS Legal Urban Memories
Source Plane-Hopper's Handbook pg. 14
With vague memories of the Perfect City resting somewhere deep in their minds, aphorites with this racial trait gain a +2 racial bonus on Knowledge (local) checks and can cast urban grace once per day as a spell-like ability (caster level equal to the aphorite’s character level). This racial trait replaces the spell-like ability racial trait.
Prerequisite(s): Int 13.
Benefit: If you are the only character threatening an opponent, you gain a +1 dodge bonus to AC against that opponent.
Special: The Artful Dodge feat acts as the Dodge feat for the purpose of satisfying prerequisites that require Dodge.
You can use Intelligence, rather than Dexterity, for feats with a minimum Dexterity prerequisite.
I intend to take the Planar Envoy alternate racial trait, and at somepoint I also need the Artful Dodge, Combat Expertise, and Skill Focus (any one knowledge) feats so that I can qualify for Student of War.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The problem with the Defense domain power is that it doesn't stack with Ring of Deflection or Protection from Evil (which you can cast en mass with the communal or circle versions), meaning it becomes quickly obsolete as the game progresses. Luckily for you, you can swap it out for Torag's Divine Fighting Technique: Torag's Patient Strikes.
Here's a PFS build you might like or use for inspiration for your Inquisitor of Torag which makes great use of that feat, warhammer and AoOs.
Stats: 16+2 12-2 14 12+2 14 7
Traits: Divine Strategist [Religion, Torag], Fate's Favored [Faith]
Feats
1 Additional Traits: Dangerously Curious [Magic], Clever Wordplay > UMD [Social], Torag's Patient Strike [BONUS]
2
3 Power Attack, Teamwork feat
4
5 Pushing Assault
6
7 Blessed Hammer
8
9 Lunge, Teamwork feat
10
11 Divine Interference
Here's how it works:
- Torag's Patients Strike counts as Combat Reflexes using Wis instead of Dex to calculate how many AoOs you can do each round, but only when using a warhammer. The problem with it is that it has no reach, so it's not easy to do AoOs. With this build, we will try to increase your reach with warhammers in order to exploit this nice feat.
- Levels 1-2 [Fame < 12]: use a regular warhammer 2H, or 1H + heavy shield when needed. Put ranks in UMD: you should have a +8 bonus at level 2, +10 if you manage to buy a cracked Magenta prism ioun stone (only 800gp). Spend 2PP to buy a wand of Long Arm. If you have time to buff before combat, try your chances to activate it with UMD: remember, DC is fixed to 20, you can retry all the times you need without wasting charges, and the wand gets stuck for a day only if you roll a 1. If you manage to activate it, you have a nice reach warhammer you can use to do up to 3 AoOs per round. If not, it's fine, you still have high Str and Divine Favor!
- Levels 3-5 [13 < Fame < 30]: buy a Wand Key Ring to activate your wand 100% of the times. If you still invest ranks into UMD as level passes, you can retrain Additional Trait to something more useful.
Do not enhance your warhammer.
- Levels 6+ [Fame > 31]: at this point your to-hit bonus should be +12 (4[BAB] + 4[Str] + 3[Divine Favor] + 1[mwk weapon]), and can easily go up to +14 with Judgment and Bane (more if we count also possible buffs from the party). Therefore, you can afford to sustain a -2 penalty to hit while using a Large sized warhammer. This not only gives you +2.5 damage, but mainly entitles you to make it Lashing Shadowcraft, getting an extra 5ft reach when needed (for example when facing enemies also with reach).
- As an extra, you can deliver touch spells as part of your warhammer attack. Remember you can cast them beforehand (hence spending the swift action required to activate the feat before the combat begins), hold the charge and discharge it as soon as you hit.
The main challenge of this build is the amount of swift actions it needs. Of course, when fighting the BBEG, you can build-up your buffs round after round, but in general you'll have to decide how to spend them depending on the specific encounter.
Sorry, what sources are those traits from? I don't know them.
I already need the Plane-Hopper's Handbook for this character, and now Divine Anthology. Should I grab anything else? (already have Blood of Shadows)
|
|
You can find them here. They're all pretty standard traits.
Defensive* Strategist[Religion: Torag] > Inner Sea Gods (*I made a typo in my previous reply)
Fate's Favored[Faith] > Ultimate Campaign
Clever Wordplay[Social] > PFS Primer
Dangerously Curious[Magic] > Ultimate Campaign
other traits you can use to get Int to UMD + UMD as class skill are
Arcane Archivist[Faction: Dark Archive] > PFS Guide to Organized Play
Pragmatic Activator[Magic] > Ultimate Campaign
PS. Thanks @Magda :)
For Teamwork feats let me suggest:
9: Outflank
Since you are an AoO based build, and more than occasionally reach, these should allow you to get more AoO. Intercept Charge can be pushed back further, but I believe it will generate the most AoO out of these feats. Paired Opportunist gives a solid +4 to hit if you can find another reach build player around to partner with. Outflank lets you get a +4 to hit while flanking, and the rare extra AoO if your partner crits.
Special mention for Broken Wing Gambit as it would be great to have around...but someone else would need to actually have it. If you use your solo ability to pretend your allies have it, you could generate no AoO for your allies, and your allies have no option to provide the situation that generates AoO without actually having the feat.
Also Seize the Moment could be brillant...if you can manage to get the prerequisites. It is interesting, but probably not something you'd actually qualify for ever.
Broken Wing Gambit sounds excellent! I'll have to grab that one ASAP.
Broken Wing Gambit sounds excellent! I'll have to grab that one ASAP.For Teamwork feats let me suggest:
9: Outflank
Since you are an AoO based build, and more than occasionally reach, these should allow you to get more AoO. Intercept Charge can be pushed back further, but I believe it will generate the most AoO out of these feats. Paired Opportunist gives a solid +4 to hit if you can find another reach build player around to partner with. Outflank lets you get a +4 to hit while flanking, and the rare extra AoO if your partner crits.
Special mention for Broken Wing Gambit as it would be great to have around...but someone else would need to actually have it. If you use your solo ability to pretend your allies have it, you could generate no AoO for your allies, and your allies have no option to provide the situation that generates AoO without actually having the feat.
Also Seize the Moment could be brillant...if you can manage to get the prerequisites. It is interesting, but probably not something you'd actually qualify for ever.
Why are you picking up the only one you can't use solo?
If you give your opponent a bonus to hit and damage, nobody gets the AoO. None of your allies can give you AoO unless they actually have Broken Wing Gambit.
Inquisitors treat their allies as if they had the teamwork feats, you don't give them the feat like a Crusader does.
The Tactical Leader archetype trades Solo Tactics for Tactician, allowing me to give my allies access to the feat.
And anyway, none of that matters because in the thread you linked to, the OP was using Tactician or something to make sure they did, in fact have a Team, which means no RAI was being molested. In this Thread, the OP is using Solo Tactics to make sure he gets the benefit of a Team even if he doesn't have one, and anyway, in this thread, The OP is planning to take Paired Opportunist anyway
You sir, are flat-out wrong, and should not use other people's threads to push your religion.
I AM NOT using Solo Tactics, I'm using the Tactical Leader archetype's Tactician. I've mentioned it a number of times now.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And anyway, none of that matters because in the thread you linked to, the OP was using Tactician or something to make sure they did, in fact have a Team, which means no RAI was being molested. In this Thread, the OP is using Solo Tactics to make sure he gets the benefit of a Team even if he doesn't have one, and anyway, in this thread, The OP is planning to take Paired Opportunist anywayYou sir, are flat-out wrong, and should not use other people's threads to push your religion.
I AM NOT using Solo Tactics, I'm using the Tactical Leader archetype's Tactician. I've mentioned it a number of times now.
Well, the fact that you are using Tactician makes Gray Warden's objection even less relevant. You will be having allies that have the Feat, there's no problem: even less problem than I thought.
My religion? Dude this is a game. You asked for advice. I am giving you my best counsel in good faith according to what the rules say. The rules really do say what I said they say. Anyway, Meirril was the one who first pushed the controversial advice on you. He is the one who first started "pushing religion." I just corrected him.
Gray Warden's notions about what everyone else does has nothing to do with what the rules say, and it's a completely unsupported assertion.
When I said you were wrong, it had nothing to do with your on-going argument about Broken Wing Gambit and being your own ally. It had everything to do with you saying I'm using Solo Tactics. In the very first post of this thread, I said I was putting my Lumberjack Dreadnought Barbarian on hold and making a Tactical Leader Inquisitor (with possible Student of War levels), but was having some issues choosing equipment.
Magda, Darigaaz, and Meirril gave advice about that.
Gray Warden gave an interesting build I hadn't thought of.
You gave another build, but assumed I was playing a base Inquisitor and that this was still a lumberjack trying to use a hammer.
The pair of you then went after each other's throats.
When I said you were wrong, it had nothing to do with your on-going argument about Broken Wing Gambit and being your own ally.Fine. Thank you for clarifying that.
It had everything to do with you saying I'm using Solo Tactics.My mistake. I saw Inquisitor, and I thought Solo Tactics. I did not read what you wrote closely enough. My advice about Thunder and Fang still applies if you are thinking Hammer. If you are going for Attacks of Opportunity, I think you should go for a really big weapon. Since you are thinking lumberjack, I was thinking really big axe, Executioner's Axe is about the biggest axe you can get. That about sums up my initial advice.
I do have reservations about taking that Archetype that trades away your Solo Tactics for Tactician. Meirril and I don't agree about much, but we agree about that! Like I said earlier. If I really wanted Tactician, I'd either go Paladin, because that Tactician is better, or I'd go Cavalier, because it only costs 1 level. But that's your call.
From the perspective of optimizing a character that uses Outflank, I'd want a weapon with a high crit threat range in addition to high damage, maybe Elven Curved Blade, but that doesn't say "lumberjack" to me.
I'm not at anyone's throat. I'm giving my best advice in good faith according to what the rules say, but I sure did call it about their civility not lasting long!
The lumberjack will be a Half-Orc Barbarian of the Dreadnought archetype, and he will indeed use a giant axe.
This character here, though, is an Aphorite Inquisitor of the Tactical Leader archetype. I chose the archetype because it felt more of a team player than the normal lone wolfishness of typical Inquisitors. It makes me think the character is a soldier in an extraplanar army come to Golarion as a sort of learning experience. I'll admit, the only real reason I thought of a Hammer is because Inquisitors have terrible proficiencies and I can't use Abadar's crossbow when I have no DEX.
As for why I chose Inquisitor in the first place...Meh, it's something new. I hate Prepared casters, and the race gives a bonus to STR/INT and a penalty to DEX. Meaning melee is the way to go, but I don't feel like trying Magus again. Inquisitor is a Spontaneous caster that runs more martial than Clerics, and has extraplanar ties that fit with the race. Between Torag, Abadar, Erastil, Irori, Iomedae, and Sarenrae:
- 1. Abadar and Erastil give ranged weapons
- 2. Irori give Unarmed Strike but it doesn't scale
- 3. Iomedae and Sarenrae are extremely common and come off as zealots
- 4. Torag is worshipped by Dwarves, who have a particular fondness of Aphorites
|
|
I play an Inquisitor(Monster Tactician) of Erastil as a team-oriented character. Not for access to the bow, but rather for access to the Plant (Growth) domain. OP claims that Inquisitors have awful proficiencies. I assert that weapon proficiencies hardly mattter, because most damage comes from static bonuses. Optimal Weapon choice, possible at 4th level through a spell, only increases damage output by about 10% - basically a rounding error.
At 4th level an Inquisitor gets access to Instant Weapon. It's possible to combine Instant Weapon (say a Lucerne Hammer) with Magic Weapon or Greater Magic Weapon to squeeze out an extra 1D6 damage. All damage is Force. This is how you deal with incorporeal creatures.
At 6th level, with just the Power Attack feat & Swift Action buffs, on Combat Round 2 those longspear attacks are typically +9 to hit (counting -2 for PA) for 4D6 + 16 damage. For damage that's 2D6 for Large Size Longspear, +7 damage for strength 20 (18+2 for Enlarge Person), +6 damage from PA, +1 weapon, +2 +2D6 Bane. Each hit averages ~30 hp damage. One might eschew Power Attack to instead attack at +11 to hit for ~24 hp per hit. Standard pre-combat buffs (Bulls Strength/STR belt + Divine Favor) add an additional +4 to hit and +5 damage.
When not using Bane, which has limited use, you do a lot less damage. Average damage without Bane is only ~21 hp per hit, or only ~15 hp per hit when lacking both Bane and Power Attack. With no combat feats whatsoever (e.g. a Summoning Build) but using bane this build still inflicts ~24 hp per hit and can attack twice per round at full BaB. That's without specializing in melee combat!
This sort of character typically gets one attack during own turn, plus usually one AoO out to 20'. Note how wielding a reach weapon nearly doubles damage output even without Combat Reflexes. Typical damage output (with hits) is roughly 30 hp - 60 hp per round. My specific PC went the Whirlwind Attack route (with 1 level Brawler dip) to get additional own-turn attacks. Whirlwind Attack goes online at 5th level via Martial Flexibility. This is non-optimal but I'm having fun with it. Team contributions include protecting allies via Summoned Monsters (absorb hp damage), enlarged reach screen (mitigates hp damage), and sometimes the Communal Protection From Evil buff.
Have fun with your Aphorite Inquisitor.
|
|
K-kun the Insane] Stats I'm looking at are: STR/16, DEX/10, CON/13, INT/14, WIS/14, CHA/13Yeah, okay, with a Dex of 10, you should forget about Attack of Opportunity builds. You'll never get more than 1/round. Maybe carry around a Reach Weapon--Inquisitors are Proficient with Longspears--to get that 1 AoO as the enemy closes, but your next move should be to drop it, pull out your real weapon, then go to work.
Or do this, which both increases your damage output and reduces theirs. Without combat reflexes this works against only one foe at a time. This approach has the added effect of denying foes the full attack, thus further reducing incoming damage. This only matters against foes with multiple attacks on a Full Attack, such as ghouls, gargoyles, trolls, and giants. Inquisitors are not very tanky, so never willingly take a full attack from multi-attacking foes.
From 2nd round onward your allies are likely to rush close to multiattack foes, causing your aggressive allies, instead of you, to eat those full attacks. This may also deny you your single AoO, especially if the battlefield locks in a fixed position. Let them do this. If they're so insistent on ending their turn within Full Attack range of multiattacking foes then they must think they're tough enough to take the hurt. This is probably bad tactics on their part, but don't tell them this as they won't appreciate it. Ideally you can square off against a single tough foe and remain mobile.
For the above reasons this playstyle takes low damage and has high survivability in combat. Use smart tactics to minimize incoming damage. If your allies fail to do so, and take a lot of damage as a result, then you'll still be around to save their bacon once they realize what's happening.
|
|
@Scott: You're describing historical Pike and Shot tactics, which dominated Earth battlefields for centuries. Pikes and spears were eventually replaced by the bayonet. Here's a video of this tactic in action, during the 1643 Battle of Rocroi. This is the historical era of Pathfinder. Notice how the Spanish Tercio (pike and shot unit) sees off a much larger cavalry formation that would have overrun and utterly crushed a unit lacking pikes. Horses are averse to taking AoOs and will not impale themselves on a sharp point. The pikes function like a mobile fortress. Notice how only melee opponents who also have reach (the opposing pike formation) can match them on even terms. There's even an example of a guy who makes his acrobatics check to avoid AoOs.
Unfortunately, this is very much a cooperative teamwork style of combat. It usually requires two or more characters plus decent movement discipline. The only way this approach works well solo is for spell casters or with thrown weapons. Alternately, as you say, one can invest multiple feats. Casters can release one hand from weapon (free action), cast a spell, then grip weapon again in both hands (free action) and continue to threaten at reach. No feats required. Archers generally can't do this.
I play in one party (2nd level) that includes both an archer and a gunslinger. They quickly learned to work with their pikeman. They always make a point of standing slightly behind and to the side of the guy with the longspear. As a result they are virtually immune to melee mooks, unless there are so many mooks that the longspear guy (with 3 AoOs) gets overwhelmed.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Pike and Shot was of course some pikemen and some firearm wielders, not a switch hitter. Historical pikes of course are not even a weapon in Pathfinder, usually being 15-20 feet long. They are utterly unsuitable for a single person vs. another single person (or even a small team like an adventuring group) and only effective as a formation weapon.
Reach tactics as seen in Pathfinder are different. The idea of ranged attackers being protected by a line is similar of course, but the actual way that a reach weapon works is largely an artifact of the one turn at a time nature of the simulation, not a defensive wall standing shoulder to shoulder.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
K-kun the Insane]Spontaneous caster that runs more martialI hate to be a nudge, but if Inquisitor is something new, then isn't Solo Tactics something new?
If Tactics is the thing you want to go with, maybe you should go with Paladin. That's a good match for a Dwarf-loving Aphorite. Paladin is also a spontaneous spellcaster that is more martial than Cleric. You get the good weapons that you are hurting for in Inquisitor. You don't get Bane, but you do get Smite starting at level 1. The Holy Tactician Archetype gets Tactician at Level 3 same as your Inquisitor, but Paladin Tactician is better: Inquisitors only get to use Tactician with their Bonus Teamwork Feats. Holy Tacticians get to use it with any of their Teamwork Feats. The other thing about Paladin is that Paladins get to wear Heavy Armor, Inquisitors don't, and your character has a Dex of 10.
I have a Core Campaign character, whom I sadly don't get to play anymore since no one plays Core anymore, who played a lot like what I see typical of Inquisitors. She was all gung-ho about killing the enemies of Pharasma and by 5th level she was Cleric3/Fighter2 and she had (or was close to having, I don't recall) a blast Spring Attacking / Whirlwind Attacking everyone with her Scythe. She only buffed herself and was sometimes doing her own thing rather than helping the party. By 8th level she'd had a crisis of faith and converted to Urgathoa, using her newfound powers as a Shadowdancer3 to raise her mother as a Shadow. She was very touchy about anyone harming "Mommy" and when I last played her, she'd added 2 levels of Barbarian to actualize that rage.
Hm, I reminisced a bit there... My point being that Inquisitors seem very much solo sources of divine wrath. Something I've done before, and had a blast with, but at this point would feel like I'm just recreating a character outside of Core. Jaethal from Kingmaker doesn't do much to dismiss this idea either.
I decided on Tactician because I got the Aphorite boon during a Con where I played an Unchained Barbarian/Ranger (Sea Reaver, Pack Rager/Freebooter) who handed out Improved Disarm Partner while raging. True, it doesn't come up often (not at all during this con), but the idea that a Barbarian can be tactical leader during combat was something I hadn't thought of before I gained access to the archetype. Admittedly, his primary tactics are either disarming the enemy of their weapons, or using his Freebooter's Bane ability and shouting "Everyone, group up and hit it 'til it dies!"
I had tried a Cavalier a long time ago as a companion character when I was trying to get my brother to play PFS with me. While my character and his APGSummoner made it to level 2, he stopped playing before we reached 3rd and mine was such a mess of confused character sheets, that the only reason I have fond memories of him is the story of how his Greatsword became known as Contraband and because his horse is Amazing!
As for Paladins...I have a personal hatred of these that spans various media and interpretations. That said, I DO have one who I enjoy playing, but that has more to do with her being based on Jehanne D'Arc than anything inherent to Paladins. I have a personal love of Jehanne that spans various media and interpretations.
TL;DR...I wanted something that fits the Aphorite's abilities but didn't want to play the same solo combatants I've seen/played over and over. Combined with their ability to provide concealment when needed, Tactical Leader Inquisitor fit that need, though I'm not 100% sold on it. Also, I HATE Paladins.
@Scott: You're describing historical Pike and Shot tactics, which dominated Earth battlefields for centuries. Pikes and spears were eventually replaced by the bayonet. Here's a video of this tactic in action, during the 1643 Battle of Rocroi. This is the historical era of Pathfinder. Notice how the Spanish Tercio (pike and shot unit) sees off a much larger cavalry formation that would have overrun and utterly crushed a unit lacking pikes. Horses are averse to taking AoOs and will not impale themselves on a sharp point. The pikes function like a mobile fortress. Notice how only melee opponents who also have reach (the opposing pike formation) can match them on even terms. There's even an example of a guy who makes his acrobatics check to avoid AoOs.
Unfortunately, this is very much a cooperative teamwork style of combat. It usually requires two or more characters plus decent movement discipline. The only way this approach works well solo is for spell casters or with thrown weapons. Alternately, as you say, one can invest multiple feats. Casters can release one hand from weapon (free action), cast a spell, then grip weapon again in both hands (free action) and continue to threaten at reach. No feats required. Archers generally can't do this.
I play in one party (2nd level) that includes both an archer and a gunslinger. They quickly learned to work with their pikeman. They always make a point of standing slightly behind and to the side of the guy with the longspear. As a result they are virtually immune to melee mooks, unless there are so many mooks that the longspear guy (with 3 AoOs) gets overwhelmed.
That was an interesting video. I was wondering why the calvalry would charge so close if they have guns of their own, but then they kinda look more like sawed-off shotguns. I was tempted to make this character a Swashbuckler based off that last scene, but then I remembered the DEX penalty. Also, I do have a character who works somewhat like this: She's currently Monk6/Bloodrager1 (Scaled Fist, Hungry Ghost, Qinggong/Urban) using a Bardiche for Reach and AoOs, with Punishing Kick to keep them there.
This is also how I play my Starfinder character in a campaign of Dead Suns. My Dragonkin Blitz Soldier2/Overlord Mystic1 has 10 DEX, so he attacks with his Pike from behind the Vanguard while protecting the Operative and Biohacker. A large-sized character with natural reach and a reach weapon...who can fly. We're on book 2 now, and I've traded my pike for a Dragonglaive. I look forward to being outside instead of those cramped corridors.
The boon that grants me the Aphorite also has 2 other races: Ratfolk and Vishkanya. I already have a Ratfolk (Cavalier/Gunslinger), but I don't have a Vishkanya. I always imagined Vishkanya would make an excellent Ninja with focus on poison and appearing human, but I actually have a Kitsune Ninja who focuses on poison and appearing human...I passed over the Vishkanya because I didn't want to recreate the same character under a different race, and I couldn't get past my preconceived notion of what Vishkanya character I would play.
I'm going to have to explore what's out there besides Rogue/Ninja for a Vishkanya...
|
|
Pike and Shot was of course some pikemen and some firearm wielders, not a switch hitter. Historical pikes of course are not even a weapon in Pathfinder, usually being 15-20 feet long. They are utterly unsuitable for a single person vs. another single person (or even a small team like an adventuring group) and only effective as a formation weapon.
Reach tactics as seen in Pathfinder are different. The idea of ranged attackers being protected by a line is similar of course, but the actual way that a reach weapon works is largely an artifact of the one turn at a time nature of the simulation, not a defensive wall standing shoulder to shoulder.
Every word Dave says above is true. I didn't explicitly say it, but I was making analogies. E.g. A single switch hitter is not the same as a unit of combined spearmen and gunslingers, even if they are functionally similar. Like Dave says, pikes aren't even a thing in Pathfinder, although longspears are. It's true that pikes are only useful in formation, not one on one. The same is not true of spears!
All else being equal, a spearman will typically dominate a swordsman. This is true both in real life and in Pathfinder. This because spears are better than swords [Youtube: Fight Camp]. This should surprise no one, as spears are Primary Battle Weapons while swords are typically sidearms and secondary weapons. I'm half joking, so please no one take me seriously and start a flame war. Truthfully, of course, it's all about context [Youtube].
Pathfinder developers probably [inaccurately] gave reach weapons an adjacent 'dead zone' for game balance reasons. Otherwise reach weapons would be superior across the board. The main [real-world] disadvantage of the spear is that it's impractical to carry a spear while living your life. A sword, however, is a sidearm, so it's perfectly possible to live your life while wearing a sword. Developers wisely understood that many GMs are unlikely to enforce encumbrance and probably won't prevent the [utterly absurd] practice of carrying reach weapons in a backpack. When a fight starts the most useful weapon is the one you actually have with you, not the one you left at home because it's too cumbersome. A similar argument applies to rifles versus handguns.
Pike and Shot was of course some pikemen and some firearm wielders, not a switch hitter. Historical pikes of course are not even a weapon in Pathfinder, usually being 15-20 feet long. They are utterly unsuitable for a single person vs. another single person (or even a small team like an adventuring group) and only effective as a formation weapon.
Reach tactics as seen in Pathfinder are different. The idea of ranged attackers being protected by a line is similar of course, but the actual way that a reach weapon works is largely an artifact of the one turn at a time nature of the simulation, not a defensive wall standing shoulder to shoulder.
Every word Dave says above is true. I didn't explicitly say it, but I was making analogies. E.g. A single switch hitter is not the same as a unit of combined spearmen and gunslingers, even if they are functionally similar. Like Dave says, pikes aren't even a thing in Pathfinder, although longspears are. It's true that pikes are only useful in formation, not one on one.
The same is not true of spears! All else being equal, a spearman will typically dominate a swordsman. This is true both in real life and in Pathfinder. This because spears are better than swords [Youtube: Fight Camp]. This should surprise no one, as spears are Primary Battle Weapons while swords are typically sidearms and secondary weapons. I'm half joking, so please no one take me seriously and start a flame war. Truthfully, of course, it's all about context [Youtube].
Pathfinder developers probably [incorrectly] gave reach weapons an adjacent 'dead zone' for game balance reasons. Otherwise reach weapons would be superior across the board. The main disadvantage of the spear is that it's impractical to carry a spear while living your life. Developers wisely understood that most GMs are unlikely to enforce encumbrance, and probably won't...
As someone who prefers lances in games like Fire Emblem, I have to agree with you. Lances/Spear trump swords, but everyone imagines being a hero with a sword. (Got sucked into that fight camp video)
I once wanted to make a character who used shield and spear, but for some reason I forgot about the Shortspear and assumed it couldn't work in Pathfinder as Spears/Lances are two-handed weapons. The closest I got was my Paladin, Jehanne D'Light, using a Ranseur and swapping to Longsword in the off-hand when enemies got past her reach.
That dead zone is indeed unfortunate as someone who loves lances/polearms. My personal favorite weapon is actually a Guandao, primarily because of it's reach and appearance, but also because of a certain pointy-headed shaman.
The best way I've gotten around that problem are the Monk's Punishing Kick, and the Dragonkin having the Vanguard right next to him.
|
|
@Scott: Do you mean this video [DailyMotion: Connections: Eat, Drink and Be Merry]? Indeed, it's pretty good!
That dead zone is indeed unfortunate as someone who loves lances/polearms. My personal favorite weapon is actually a Guandao, primarily because of it's reach and appearance, but also because of a certain pointy-headed shaman.
The best way I've gotten around that problem are the Monk's Punishing Kick, and the Dragonkin having the Vanguard right next to him.
My first few reach PCs made the extra investment to deal with the 'dead zone'. Options include armor spikes, Quickdraw, drop-and-draw-another-weapon, and many others.
Thing is, after gaining experience in the technique, I realized that the 'dead zone' hardly ever matters. Sure, it occasionally matters, but not very often, and rarely in a way that's hard to counter. My last few reach fighters have not usually bothered to threaten adjacent and ... it hasn't mattered. Seriously. A reach fighter PC of mine last dropped a primary reach weapon to instead draw a close-range weapon oh, about 6 years ago. It was in tight quarters and I got caught in a corner. It hasn't happened since, despite dozens or hundreds of sessions. I think concern about this issue is vastly overblown, as it's just not a big deal. My experience suggests this issue is problematic in combat no more than 5% of the time.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I realized that the 'dead zone' hardly ever matters.
This is something of a 'meta' issue on how the GM handles things. In the majority of published materials and certainly PFS style play it would indeed rarely matter.
In a home game, where a GM might decide that either enemies would adapt to the parties tactics or that effective tactical plays would commonly be countered it can be a different thing.
While I don't design adventures to counter a build, I do try and make the challenging, and that means as the players create more effective tactics, I will at least occasionally try and throw something at them that will target a weakness.
One Mouser Swashbuckler and the dead zone can be quite an issue, as one example.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This Wikipedia Article about pikes thoroughly answers Scott's questions. The short answers are: Earliest recorded use of a pike-like weapon was by troops of Philip of Macedon. Yes, they predated Robert the Bruce. No, they didn't predate Philip of Macedon.
Special thanks to Meirril for sharing personal knowledge with us! That's great! While I have some medieval recreation experience, years of sword training, and over 30 years of martial arts expertise (mostly Indonesian Silat, which I've taught for 10+ years), I've never even touched a pike. Thanks, Meirril!
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You just need to wield the hammer to use Torag patient strikes...
choose chivalry inquisition to be mounted invest to get another proficiency (if you are human military tradition to get another cool weapon prof) and wield a lance one handed mounted and use the other hand for the hammer...
LOL come on dude, be real.