So, what exactly are the Veins of Creation? There seems to be a bit of conflicting information about whether it's a mountain range or a massive root system of the kumaru tree.They are the artificially created ley lines grown from the kumaru tree in Tumbaja Mountain. Think of it as a magical power grid. The whole network failed, and so local botantists have been working to set up small-scale networks, while all dream of someday reigniting the entire root system into the big magical network again.
Thank you, that is good context to know (I wasn’t 100% aware that it was an artificial ley line), but that doesn’t exactly answer my question, which arises because of the description of the Veins of Creation in the entry for Jolizpan Park:
…one of its [Jolizpan Park] attractions is the exposed rootlike structure of the Veins of Creation. This arcane network is plainly visible; each of the roots is over a foot across and consists of the same wood as the kumaru tree in Tumbaja Mountain.
Emphasis: mine.
I was under the impression that ley lines were more of a metaphysical thing (Occult Adventures describes them as “an imperceptible current of energy” [pg. 232] in their natural state), so this very obviously physical rather than metaphysical description for the Veins of Creation creates the question of what the Veins of Creation are physically rather than magically. I’m imagining a massive system of roots from the kumaru tree that spread throughout the country like a spider web and pumps magical energy through the roots to create something that acts almost identically to ley lines.
Follow-up question: How big, comparatively, is the kumaru tree to a real-world tree? I have this image of a massive redwood or something like the Great Deku Tree from The Legend of Zelda.
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or is this pure flim-flammery that's not supposed to be available to PC's?
Fast Healing 5 is not something you would ever make available to a PC as a racial ability, and the ability to see through smoke and fog is an incredibly powerful benefit that straddles the boundary of whether it's ever appropriate as a racial bonus. Definitely "not available to PC's" territory.
If that bothers you (I have a "if it's fine for the NPC's, it's fine for the PC's" outlook myself) then you could swap this out for magical items and spells that provide similar bonuses.
I’m imagining a massive system of roots from the kumaru tree that spread throughout the country like a spider web and pumps magical energy through the roots to create something that acts almost identically to ley lines.Yes, you've got it right. But the roots presently have no power.
Poor communication on my part; I was talking about how the Veins of Creation were prior to Aroden's death. Thanks nonetheless, Ron!
Big enough to fill that large open space in the center of Tumbaja Mountain.Follow-up question: How big, comparatively, is the kumaru tree to a real-world tree? I have this image of a massive redwood or something like the Great Deku Tree from The Legend of Zelda.
Redwood it is!
EDIT: Another question: since Palderren's Miasma ability acts as gaseous form, shouldn't he be unable to use his other supernatural abilities? The spell specifically calls out that you lose supernatural abilities while it's in effect, so that kinda breaks his tactics ("...the fog surges toward them, attempting to cover as many PCs as possible and use its isolation ability."), of course, he can still make use of his absolutely devastating SLAs. Although, it does create the interesting situation of "if it loses supernatural abilities while in miasma form then it would lose its miasma ability which is what's putting it in gaseous form, making the ability effectively useless" which is 100% not the RAI. (Of course, I'm arguing about the RAW, so who am I to say anything about RAI?)
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On another topic, i've realized something about the black dragon Ravaner's Arcane plating. While it's quite convenient and fun that such plating is a bit aztec themed, the idea that it somehow "crumbles to dust" after's Istravek's demise is to me a bit poor.
But, with a bit of hindsight, it could work if made somehow relevant to the WT past and actions. Considering that those plates look like of pure gold, they could well came from the fabled Xin - Grafar, the city of golden death created by Tar Baphon while he was alive. This city was not only made of solid gold, but cursed so that "no one could carry it's gold outside" without the Tyrant's permission. I would see fit that the ravener's bodily possession would simple "float back" to the golden city after its demise.
However, i would also suggest to give this moment some kind of gravitas, by either having Tar Baphon's own voice reclaim such treasure, like saying "The spoils of a slave belong to his masters", or to actually have the WT scry over the corpse after the battle and comment over it's slave demise, and how poorly it has served his master.
By my understanding, Istravek's trip was meat to investigate on the possibility of recreate new shards from the Kumaru tree, in order to allow Baphon to spam the Radiant Fire over each of Golarion's capital city, or something like that. It's actually not spelled clear, but i believe this is the most immediate reason, since by now the WT as got half the "bullets" he started this war with. By having Baphon actually castigate the carcass, expressing such rage and contempt, would also explain why he doesn't simply mythic wish the dragon back on his feet (now or at a later point): he's not worth the honor/the cost.
This would, incidentally, not only allow the pcs to "hear" Baphon's voice for the first time, and possibly be seen and inquired about by the lich, but to allow the pcs to gain insight on the Lich's agenda. Taunts and declarations aside, this would mirror's Karzoug's "appearance" in Book 5 of Runelords, and allow the Pcs to both see and be recognized by their enemy as some kind of menace.
Hola, Luis,
just out of curiosity... :)
How does a sceaduinar geotrophose's isitoq familiar communicate with its master as the familiar can't speak (because it doesn't have articulatory organs - like a mouth) and its master's constant hide from undead effect would be reinstated even after a touch from its master. The isitoq can't see, hear, or smell its master. Even supernatural abilities fail against its master. The extraordinary ability Speak with Master wouldn't do the trick (see missing speech organ). I guess, neither the Empathic Link would work.
Saludos
We just played section B and began section C today. There are 3 of us (I'm the GM) - UC rogue (scout), warpriest, inquisitor (sanctified slayer, my character). The ximtal is a nightmare if isolation affects anybody. We killed it rather quickly, but the rogue got isolated.
So I have some questions about that (and miasma in general). Miasma is implemented oddly, to say the least.
While in miasma form, why does the damage wait until the start of the creature's turn? Swarms cause damage to anyone in their space at the end of the swarm's turn. Is this a mistake?
As KingTreyIII notes, how can supernatural abilities continue to work, particularly isolation, while in miasma form? It seems the wording should be changed to "similar to gaseous form, with the exception that..."
HOW does isolation work? Particularly, once you fail your save, are you just plain screwed until you make the next save (minus a wish)? The description doesn't list any way to negate it.
The description also says that "true seeing penetrates the effect." Does that mean someone with true seeing can also hear the affected individual? Can someone under true seeing cast spells on the affected individual? If so, what if he casts true seeing on him, then what?
The rogue failed his save (it worked out to a total of 6 failed rolls, btw, and he only needed an 8) but the warpriest had true seeing up. He burned a hero point, recalled true seeing and put it on the rogue (extended). My inquisitor can't see him (even though I made the save), but the rogue can see both of us. We now have about 15 minutes left to finish the level.
At one point we considered having the warpriest tie a rope to the rogue to lead him around, but I ruled the rogue wouldn't be able to see the rope IF any allies were holding it, which would confuse him at a minimum.
This is a tough one because I want there to be a serious penalty (CR17 creature after all), but I don't want to doom the party over something that is ultimately my call.
Thoughts?
Realized today that I'm already behind on summary. I ran some of this book almost 2 weeks ago and I'm prepping for another session on Friday!
I had introduced the transition to Xopatl in a prior session, so the characters were effectively presented immediately with the festival. This was...jarring to say the least. They spent time gathering information and were startled that there just wasn't any urgency or concern to speak of. Both in-character and out-of-character, the impression was that the transition was too stark, too fast. If not for the constant insistence to move forward in Arcadia, I'm fairly certain they'd be seeking a Greater Teleport by any means necessary to get back to Avistan. In short, the gravity of the book 4 ending and the levity of the book 5 intro felt wrong to them. As a result, I had to quickly prep some things that I wasn't quite ready for. I had the maps loaded in Roll20 and some tokens down, but I hadn't done the deeper reading to make sure I understood the monster action flow and such.
The PCs then did information gathering via Ears of the City. This gave me the proper vehicle to give them the direction toward action that they were desperate for. We walked through the Clash of Saints as a narrative because none of the party members were interested in the slightest (again, levity vs gravity).
At this point, we went on to the Blossom Parade and I rolled randomly among locations for what their unbuffed encounter was going to be (*cough cough*). I landed on the wizards. This was unfortunate. I was completely unconcerned about the fires as one player has been using a lot of water-based spells, so I was expecting the use of those spells (and was not disappointed). The real problems came from 2 aspects:
1. The smoke is a real problem for PCs, but the NPCs ignore it as a vision blocker.
2. The well-prepared wizards are flying and have Greater Dispel Magic prepped.
I ended up ruling that the smoke started dissipating once nearby fires were extinguished and had two primary fire locations. Each wizard effectively stayed within each one of those areas, so one fire being extinguished meant one visible wizard with a 1 round delay on the smoke dispersing. I also assumed that civilians were effectively acting as a bucket brigade.
The wizards won the initiative, more or less, and followed their general tactic by using Black Tentacles on the bucket brigade. Hunter/Slayer cast Aqueous Orb and started rolling it over fires, which extinguished one fire. The second wizard then dropped Mass Hold Person, hitting only the cohort (Dondun). The paladin/swashbuckler ran over to the civilians and began using Aura of Healing (Hospitaler archetype) to keep them up. Our new PC (Cleric 14 // Fighter 6/Mortal Usher 8) went to engage, casting a spell for flight (it's a Ragathiel-themed one that I can't remember the name of) and went in the direction of casting noises.
Queue Fireball at PCs, Hunter/Slayer continues orbing, and Wiz2 Greater Dispel at the cleric/MU. Paladin/Swash uses the LoH mercy for Dispel Magic on the tentacles, succeeds, and walks back to the rest of the party. Cleric grumbles and tries to do something mind-affecting, which does nothing to the constructs. Dondun wishes he could do something, but only now breaks the Mass Hold Person.
Queue Maximized Lightning Bolt and a dead Dondun, heavily injured party. One wizard is now visible and begins getting attacked, but the paladin/swash is neither fast enough to approach nor able to fly. Hunter/slayer is the only ranged at this time, but failed the save against Slow. I start pulling punches because this stops feeling fun for any of us. These wizards are too well set up for this situation. I end up more or less letting the players win to move on, but I could have just blasted them into oblivion given the situation as it was.
The PCs gather the loot and revive Dondun via Ultimate Mercy, the paladin/swash says "I'm basically useless for the rest of the day" and I mention the sounds of other violent things going on throughout the city. That's where we ended the session.
Sometime in the past 4 weeks since last session, the players realized there was a math error and figured out that Dondun somehow hadn't died, therefore the paladin still had Lay on Hands available.
On to the rest of the parade!
The players decided they'd move through the city in proximity order for the remaining encounters. Since they started at the docks, it made the order pretty clear. It also sort of felt like an old school Castlevania game going back to the city map to ping the next location after each fight.
Viper Vines: They attempted to omnomnom, but these things were not very threatening to my players. The front line had mid-30s AC, the will save DC was mildly threatening but I forgot to spray that cloud out, and really it came down to "there's things with reach and no DR, just let the archer do archer things."
Ypotryll: The rare fight at high tiers where it's just numbers. It's kind of a refreshing change, honestly, and although this thing tenderized the PCs like it was making schnitzel, the players enjoyed the combat. This is a very challenging encounter for PCs who rely on AC against enemies. The saving grace for the party was that it failed a save against Calm Emotions, which allowed the archer to take a nice full round attack with greater invisibility and sneak attack.
Wyrwood Soldiers: In the interest of time, we skipped these. They posed little to no threat to the PCs and one of my players wakes up at 5am for work. I wasn't interested in keeping him until 11pm.
Wyrwood Skulks: I got off a grand total of 2 sneak attacks. All 3 died within the span of 12 seconds and I was 1 initiative tick away from the glory of the final one throwing a Necklace of Fireball bead into such a spot that it would have detonated both of the other full necklaces. The one with the arrow pointing at him was the last wyrwood standing.
With that, the PCs are gearing up to head to the Blue Gardens of Tlil.
Hey, it's not a play log.
For the Blue Gardens, I'm not understanding the maps as labeled. Specifically, it looks like the labels for Upper Level and Lower Level are swapped maybe? I can't really make sense of the stairs and doors otherwise.
Thanks Luis!
Blue Gardens of Tlil part 1:
Finissario: I skipped it. I've run base alraunes before and found them to be incredibly boring/frustrating encounters for PCs that can take hours to resolve. Tacking 4 levels of Mesmerist to that seemed agonizing.
Into the Gardens: The PCs now include a Mortal Usher, so an invisible scout is sort of the order of the day here. Most of the party stayed away while the scout scouted. They made their initial entry into B4 and proceeded to B5 undetected, then proceeded to B6.
The PCs made a valiant effort at following the intent of nonlethal engagement. Both botanists were knocked unconcious and the PCs engaged the Blood Brambles more aggressively while the warden patrol hustled to the room. The Fighter/Mortal Usher//Cleric was a bit confused when one Blood Bramble ran right past him. My interpretation there was that it was a lot less interested in him because he doesn't have an obol (he's a replacement PC). We had to cut the session right as the wardens arrived at the door to B6, but the PCs successfully took out the stock part of the room.
B6 is a problematic room. I can understand the wandering patrols being hostile, but the botanists here are also auto-hostile if you aren't wearing a mask, so it's kind of a case of "this is definitely the wrong door to open." It's also positioned in a very likely place for the PCs to go immediately. I recommend revising their behavior triggers as follows:
*When the door opens, the botanists do not immediately look in that direction, but instruct the PCs to leave them to their work and close the door.
*If the PCs do not leave within 1 round (aka immediately), the botanists follow their listed behavior.
*If the PCs leave and close the door, the plants still "awaken" and attack the botanists, causing a failure as far as the bonus XP condition is concerned. PCs may still recover the botanists equipment by completing the encounter against the plants.[/list]
Tonight's session was really fun for everybody as it went a bit off the rails.
Rolling back into the combat, the PCs were in B6 with wardens coming down the hallway and had cast a Wall of Force on the doorway. One warden ran for help from the dormitory and the other stood by the door to watch the PCs. They then proceeded to go to Juke City by Disintegrating the eastern wall for an exit, waiting for the warden at the door to run down the hallway, then dismissed the Wall of Force and went around the other way. This led to a combat in the northern hall in front of the labs, where I had the warden who ran for help grab a botanist and warden from the dormitory as reinforcements.
About 3 rounds later, that entire encounter is nonlethally subdued and dragged into B7. The PCs donned the Tlil Masks and wandered around, ending up at the dormitory themselves. Nobody prepared or casted Tongues and nobody spoke Razatlani. In the PCs own words, "this was a poorly thought-out infiltration." The PCs started interacting with a botanist who had asked a question in Razatlani ("What's with the alarm?") and the halfling PC, not understanding a word of it, just shook his head no. I gave the PCs a Sense Motive to realize that this was not an expected response and was raising suspicion.
The upshot, though, was an incredible failed Knowledge: Local check on the part of the botanist to identify a halfling. Given the relatively low numbers in Jolizpan, I figured they'd be DC 10 instead of DC 5. A natural 1 later, the botanist assumed that he was a gnome and addressed the party in gnome, which two characters understood. Some clever bluffing later, the alarm was removed and the PCs were on their way.
The PCs then decided to disregard the rest of the facility, Disintegrated one of the doors to the Arcane Nexus, and took the elevator down. Their hope was that the unconscious Children of Kumaru and the hole in B6 won't be discovered until they're well on their way.
How 'bout that underground area, eh?
Sakhil: The real threat of the adventure. I messed up tactics on it (softballed badly) and it was still a significant threat due to reasonable damage output per swing, reach, combat reflexes, the disease, and such. Things I forgot: gaze attack (first PC was the paladin, so he didn't roll due to immunity, just forgot afterward), quickened displacement.
Run right (that is, as tactics indicate unless the party hits the knowledge check), this thing is very threatening.
Umbarno: Ended up being a bit of a threat based on positioning. The golem went first and blocked the hallway after "I'm invisibly scouting" got seen by True Seeing. Said player engaged in conversation, reached the reasonable end of the convo, then said "please don't say 'roll a diplomacy check.'" I responded with "I mean, I'll take intimidate too...?"
The hardest part of this encounter was that the PCs lost initiative, which meant that engaging Umbarno was very difficult. Cannon golems hit like a truck and this guy was positioned with a clear shot down the hallway and completely blocking the entrance to the room, making it very difficult for the PCs to engage. The map is definitely anti-player in design (and anti-GM to draw) for this encounter and probably the actual hardest enemy.
Umbarno's tactics are badly written - the golem should not be a valid target for Unholy Aura due to the spell resistance: yes (harmless) for the spell. Also, he wastes the swift action for an extra +1 deflection bonus to AC. On the plus side, we at least all should know the proper verbal components for Death Clutch. Paladin made the save...barely.
Because the party was still wearing the Tlil Masks, I figured the wyrwoods wouldn't bother them. The party them went on the grand search for the notes and promptly teleported out upon finding them. They skipped several encounters and the majority of interesting loot due to this, but I think they'll be mostly fine.
It's been a crazy couple weeks, but we finally got to have a session again tonight, which meant finally starting Tumbaja Mountain. The party reasonably prepared for a hot engagement, but were not quite prepared for the happy-fun-entry.
Tzitzimitl: The "cast haste and get closer" part of the tactics got invalidated pretty quick by getting engaged in melee before initiative came up. I opted to open with a deeper darkness to trigger the Eclipse ability and stagger the entire PC team. This was almost completely undone in the next two actions via Dispel Magic and Remove Paralysis, but I followed it up with a full team Wail on turn 2, killing the animal companion and cohort Dondun while knocking out the archer. Light and Dark was used to counteract a massive swing from the cleric/fighter/Mortal Usher. His heart sank a bit, but then the paladin/swashbuckler got a full attack and (surprise surprise) killed the thing. Between Ultimate Mercy and Raise Animal Companion, the party was back in fighting shape and able to move forward with the entry, albeit with bruised egos and LOTS of lost spell slots on Dondun. He started with 6 Dispels prepped, spent 1 in the combat, and lost the remaining 5 to the Ultimate Mercy raise.
Upper Tumbaja: The party started clockwise from NW, so they dealt with the haunt (multiple divine casters = EZ), salvaged the NE room, and got to the ghost. Some delicate conversation later, they decide to bash the mirrors. Numoz floated over to the tree and down, immediately engaging Cover Art the Dragon. The party, understanding that there's a dragon, decides to spend some time buffing while somehow believing that Numoz will accomplish anything while they do this. I rolled some attacks, but uhhhh...spoiler alert: the ghost basically can't do anything against Cover Art.
Dragon Time: As it turns out, an ounce of preparation turns high level encounters to paste pretty quick. Istravek got one action and it was a failed attempt at a spell. The relatively high AC was still "hit on a 2" territory for the paladin/swashbuckler due to buffs and Istravek died to smite hit-crit-hit-crit as a full round attack.
Next session in 2 weeks, 'rona willing.
Sooo...weird circumstance: the adventure says that the PCs are given a chance to convince the Children of Kumaru to abandon the Blue Gardens of Tlil, but...there doesn't seem to be a single mention of how they go about doing that. All of the encounters basically go straight into combat when the Children see people without masks. So...how exactly are the PCs meant to convince them?
Sooo...weird circumstance: the adventure says that the PCs are given a chance to convince the Children of Kumaru to abandon the Blue Gardens of Tlil, but...there doesn't seem to be a single mention of how they go about doing that. All of the encounters basically go straight into combat when the Children see people without masks. So...how exactly are the PCs meant to convince them?
PCs could theoretically find masks before interacting with any of the Children of Kumaru or use spells like Calm Emotions on first contact. Other tactics include what happened with my players, which is about 3 posts above yours.
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So, running through book 5 and I've noticed along with others that the level names are switched in the Blue Gardens of Tlil. Also, on the map pack, the top 2-4 rows of the map have been cropped out.
The module is more than two years old. I presume Paizo has no interest in fixing either of these errors?
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So, running through book 5 and I've noticed along with others that the level names are switched in the Blue Gardens of Tlil. Also, on the map pack, the top 2-4 rows of the map have been cropped out.
The module is more than two years old. I presume Paizo has no interest in fixing either of these errors?
nah. there's some other little map name errors... like the one on the inside covers of lastwall...
I feel like I'm an idiot who is just missing it, but does it say somewhere how many spells per day Istravek can cast for each spell level?
I feel like I'm an idiot who is just missing it, but does it say somewhere how many spells per day Istravek can cast for each spell level?
He can cast all listed spells once. They are the spells he has prepared. That is one 8th level spell, two 7th level, three 6th level, four 5th and 4th and five 3rd, 2nd, 1st level spells.
I feel like I'm an idiot who is just missing it, but does it say somewhere how many spells per day Istravek can cast for each spell level?He can cast all listed spells once. They are the spells he has prepared. That is one 8th level spell, two 7th level, three 6th level, four 5th and 4th and five 3rd, 2nd, 1st level spells.
But he's a sorcerer, he doesn't prepare spells...right?
Though I do now notice it lists his CL as 16th level for those spells. Should I just reference that on the Sorcerer spells/day table and then add extras for his high Charisma?
I feel like I'm an idiot who is just missing it, but does it say somewhere how many spells per day Istravek can cast for each spell level?He can cast all listed spells once. They are the spells he has prepared. That is one 8th level spell, two 7th level, three 6th level, four 5th and 4th and five 3rd, 2nd, 1st level spells.But he's a sorcerer, he doesn't prepare spells...right?
Though I do now notice it lists his CL as 16th level for those spells. Should I just reference that on the Sorcerer spells/day table and then add extras for his high Charisma?
Ah, I see, he is sorc. Then it is probably missing in his stats and a typo. But yes, just take Sorcerer level 16 as a guidline. You won't probably have a chance to use that many spells anyway.
So that is 3x 8th level spell and 6x 7th level...hm that is no joke. I am interested how this will play out. Good luck to your party :)
Good luck to your party :)
They're still in Roslar's Tomb, I was just looking ahead. ;)
One of the characters is a crossblooded Draconic/Undead Bloodrager. He didn't know his family, just has a pendant of a black dragon scale and a letter from his birthmother that was 95% smudged but he could make out the name "Istravek" in the message, so he's going to be in for a surprise regarding his lineage.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Is travel is a Ravener, which is a template to make a dragon undead. They lose their spells per day, and instead gain a sort of mana pool that is basically soul fuel. They can cast any spell known as long as they can spend the required soul points that the spell level costs. This is a cool system that gives you more flexibility on how to allocate your spells. The template will spell out the specifics better.
Is travel is a Ravener, which is a template to make a dragon undead. They lose their spells per day, and instead gain a sort of mana pool that is basically soul fuel. They can cast any spell known as long as they can spend the required soul points that the spell level costs. This is a cool system that gives you more flexibility on how to allocate your spells. The template will spell out the specifics better.
Ohhh, my bad. I had only briefly glanced over the Ravener entry. Apologies, Paizowriters, for thinking you had made a mistake. Makes much more sense now.
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I love the idea of the Clash of Saints, but only a single PC participating leaves the others with nothing to do (other than perhaps making a wager?). I'll have to figure something else to involve them with.
So far after one day in Jolizpan selling all their gear, buying what they could, and commissioning enhancements to be done, they encounter the wyrwood skulks. The investigator and warpriest managed to notice them robbing a merchant stand. The warpriest of Milani shrugged saying, "there's crime in every city. It's not always on us to do something about it." They did note a lack of the city guard in the market. The investigator decided to at least point out to the vendor he had been robbed. The skulks saw this and decided any one canny enough to spot their deeds was a threat. Fireball beads were hurled and the skulks were defeated.
I'm going to have the Lady of the Divine Blade visit the Survivors either at Miraina's home or out and about in the city on day 2 (day before Clash, 2 before Blossom parade) as a thanks for helping defend the peace as her guard is thinned due to the Golden Claws MIA status.
I'm going to run the viper vine encounter in either the park or the gardens depending on the PCs location. To draw their interest to the viper vines I'm going to have their obols react to the surge of energy that animates the vines in a reflection of the Kumaru tree reacting to their arrival.
The Jolizpan streets encounter I'm going to repeat at least once as they explore the city, I'll treat it like a true random encounter, 30% chance every 4 hours they explore. I'll have them attacking the guard once and the second time they're after the PCs as a threat.
On the evening of the Blossom Parade the procession will arrive in Umbarez square where the Ypotryll (with the mythic savage template) will face the Survivors. The mages I'll save for the final day of the festival (the first full moon after the equinox) when the town is gathering near the river to float their glowing flowers in memorial.
Hopefully by this time the Survivors will understand the threat is coming from the Blue Gardens and/or Miraina will elaborate on her exile from the place and ask them to retrieve her gear and lab notes so she can continue to examine their obols.
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So my group used stealth to move around the Blue Gardens of Till, invisible avoiding the wyrwood patrol to sneak in an upper floor window. They avoided the warden patrol, spent an hour in the library finding Miraina's notes. They them beelined the the Arcane Nexus, bypassed the locks by using passwall, and headed into the underlevel. Here they faced Palderren, the ximtal Sahkil.
As my players are 14/ 3 mythic tiers (APL 16) this fight was augmented by adding 2 Pakalchi Sahkils with the Mighty(Cr+5) template from super genius games. Damn does that template make minion level monsters juicy! Even with heroes feast, the improved Look Of Fear save DCs took the Steelhound graveslinger into the scared condition (advanced fear rules from Horror adventures) and staggered him a few rounds while the Paladin was mazed, his Calaca cohort panicked & greater teleported back to Jolizpan. The Pakalchi chased the Phoenix sorcerer back up to the Arcane Nexus. Never managed to land the ximtal's isolate or the Pakalchi poison to deny ally benefits. Not badly balanced for a non-mythic encounter (CR 18 vs APL 16), took 5 rounds of combat. Most non mythic creatures have been getting roflstomped.
--Vrocky Horror
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Having just finished prepping and running most of Tumbaja Mountain...it was really disappointing to have a Forbiddance effect in place, and then include a monster who's whole schtick is teleporting. I'd be tempted to say just ignore that, and say the mirror jump is special and not constrained.
Also...the ghostly inquisitor was fantastic. One of my group wanted to just let him get killed by the dragon, but he got dragged along when everyone else rushed to help the ghost in his quest.
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The end of Book 4 proves that Radiant Fire can be used to destroy a lich and to sever a lich's link with their phylactery (because that's exactly what Arazni did). So I have chosen to modify Books 5 & 6 so that the goals of the PCs are for them to learn how to do that to Tar-Baphon. I think that is much more internally consistent...and I think the players will find that much more emotionally satisfying.
After this is all over I will confess to the players that in the canonical Golarion 2.0 Tar-Baphon survived.
I'll give many more details on my modifications to this AP after we finish.
Allen
If I was a PC, right about the end of part 2 of the installment I'd be kinda pissed...
PC prospects going forward into Book 6 look bleak indeed.
So - just so I'm clear - the endgame for the PC's is to sacrifice themselves to create a feedback loop that blows up Tar Baphon and ends his ability to use Radiant Fire. However, given he's a lich (and what we already know about 2E so far...) he is coming back, just without his superweapon. And that's the goal of the AP, in a nutshell?
Effectively, from a metagame perspective admittedly, the PC's get to perma-death themselves in order to set the table for how Golarion 2E is going to look. At least the devs had the foresight to put in a sidebar suggesting the helpful NPC can arrange something for PC resurrection sometime in the future, after they've heroically sacrificed themselves. Gee, thanks for that.
What I eagerly await now is the "what if the PC's fail" outlines that typically show up in Book 6 of the AP's. This kind of 'ultimate sacrifice' might work ok in some groups, but I know groups that would take the boon (having their obols recalibrated to positive energy), and head for the hills.
I had a similar thought when I was running it.
I was pretty unimpressed with the two story beats you mentioned - and altered the outcome so that both Arazni and TB are perma-ded as of the end of TG.
I'm planning on having the reveal of "hey this is how the obols can be used to defeat the Tyrant" and then having a conversation with my players about how they feel about that, whether they'd appreciate a narrative that goes that way, or if they'd perhaps want to work out an alternative. Perhaps, for example, one of them becoming a conduit and sacrificing themselves, rather than all of them. Or something that feels impactful, costly, but not just "everyone hold hands and die". Its not something that we've done at our table before and I'm not sure it's something they'd vibe with so much.
(I love Arazni though, I can't wait for the end of book 4 - one of the PCs might get a chance to multiclass into a cleric/warpriest of Arazni, kind of like her first new as a nascent deity.)
I picked Tyrant's Grasp to GM precisely because I wanted the players to have to sacrifice themselves in order to 'win'. I also like how it's an ultimate sacrifice, in that their souls die too.
However, I am planning on upping the stakes for them. I'm thinking of them stumbling across some research notes, found after they kill Istravek, detailing how to increase the power of the Radiant Fire. Perhaps by making more kumaru pieces like those from the Shattered Shield. (Still mulling over the details.)
So they'll know their sacrifice won't permanently destroy Tar-Baphon but will know that it will deprive him of the Ultimate Weapon.
I'm just about to start running this Book. I realized that it repeats the trope of the PCs arriving...by sheer coincidence...just as the town's major annual festival is starting. (This also happened in Book 2.)
This isn't a big deal. But my rule-of-thumb is that a story should really only have a maximum of one coincidence. Any more and I fear it will strain the reader's/viewer's/player's suspension of disbelief.
Allen
Agree. I'm at the exact stage you are and I'd noticed that too. Book 2 was long enough ago that my players won't think it's that big a deal. But I'm not going to over-emphasize the festival, I don't think it adds much to the story. My party doesn't have a suitable PC to enter the Clash of Saints anyway. None of them do unarmed combat and the party bard would have a decent shot at the boasting contest but he'd get flattened by the other two.
The repetitiveness isn't nearly as bad as Book 1, where the players went to three waystations in rapid succession, and each of them had had a recent rebellion against the local boss.
You know I hadn't actually realised that until you pointed it out but yeah, you're so right!
I'm gonna keep the Arcadia festival in because a) LOVE Arcadia, really looking forward to exploring that, and b) I think it's gonna give the PCs some much needed levity (though I fear they'll be hardpressed to talk into it). Thankfully for my group I expect it's gonna be a long while yet before we get there (one of my players is expecting a baby within the year so our sessions are less regular at the moment) so I don't think it'll feel as back-to-back as when I'm reading it. If I was to go back, I'd probably downsize/remove the Vigil festival instead. The moment I mentioned there was a festival on they were like "welp, things can only go badly" - we've played enough adventures by this point that festivals are bad omens (Swallowtail Festival, Hope Knife Ceremony, Armasse...)
Hi, brain trust:
Some questions for you about the start of this book.
Have any wyrwood attacks occurred before the PCs arrive? I imagine so.
Does the following sequence of events match your understanding of intent of the book?
Several weeks ago: dragon takes over Tumbaja Mountain.
A few days later: Children of Kumaru take over Blue gardensThis week: Blossom Days:
Day 1:
Day 2: PCs arrive
Day 3: Attack #1
Day 4: Attack #2
Day 5: Attack #3, Attack #4
Day 6: Attack #5, Blossom Parade
Day 7: Solstice, Clash of the Saints, Flowers For The Ancestors (in the river)Thanks,
Allen
I started book 5 yesterday. I didn't go with the exact timeline with the book as the party had just had a hard slog through Gallowspire and I wanted a light-hearted break.
I was tempted to skip the fight with the dire crocodiles, but instead re-jigged it slightly. I had the party hear screams while crossing the river, only to see a Furcifer chasing citizens looking for its next meal. The PCs came to the rescue while the locals ran to Miraina Olviris for help - she is a mighty wizard after all!
Miraina was impressed that her help wasn't needed and greeted the PCs warmly as per the book. I did it that way as I thought it a bit coincidental the way the module had it that she just happened to be wandering by - the only person in Jolizpan who can ID the obols - as they arrive. I wanted a plausible hook to get her there.
They then rested, went up a level, and spent the next day shopping, unloading the gear they'd been looting since mid Book 3, and ordering new magic items.
They then went to the Blossom Parade where the bard wowed the locals with his dancing, before visiting the Clash of Saints. Rather than require one PC to enter all three contest, I let them pick and choose. The scout lost the first contest, quite badly. The bard narrowly lost the second, but only because his opponent had swigged his potion of glibness beforehand.
The gnome cleric then entered the third contest and what followed was a bit of slapstick. The drunken master had a lot of attacks but needed to roll 19 or 20 to hit, then doing lots of damage if successful. The gnome found it much easier to hit, but did miniscule damage each time. The umpire ended the fight in a draw when the gnome went below zero hp, only for his contingent healing to kick in with an immediate action, and he then cast Heal on himself. The umpire had decided that mid-fight heal spells were taking the spirit of the contest a bit too far. And the players were getting bored, it had gone on for at least 12 rounds.
Next session, the wyrwood fights will begin. A lot of the magic items my party has bought require upgrades or are a bit bespoke, so I ruled that they'll be ready in a few days. This will give the party plenty of opportunity to trapse across town and deal with the trouble they find.
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I'm just about to start running this Book. I realized that it repeats the trope of the PCs arriving...by sheer coincidence...just as the town's major annual festival is starting. (This also happened in Book 2.)
This isn't a big deal. But my rule-of-thumb is that a story should really only have a maximum of one coincidence. Any more and I fear it will strain the reader's/viewer's/player's suspension of disbelief.
Allen
there are so many festivals in adventure paths...