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(edit: Whelp I copied from a word file.. i guess the formatting doesn't keep very well. )
howdy folks!
So I was trying to figure out how be a biohacker healer (or off healer). I am more or less excluding the Medicine Skill in this discussion as that is more post battle healing.
I thought about maybe a field of study being focused healing. BUT then healing would compete with Injections, a very limited amount per day. Which would suck as injections are interesting buffs/debuffs. Healing should be separate. I also realized that so much of the biohacker is built for range, but key abilities are tied to being very close
Like Field Dressing Theorm and custom scanner
The problem with Field Dressing is that it is "medical aid to an adjacent, willing creature" Meaning:
(SIDENOTE: Adjacent, not Touch. Raw you could do it through cover and such. Not sure that is intended.)
A. You have to be next to the target.
a. Most Biohackers will be ranged, there aren't many abilities that support CQC combat biohackers. Basically, unlike other classes (force field, durability. witch warper's warping and terrain modification, etc) Biohackersdo not have a self-sustain. No mobility, no mitigating. but they have a ton of ranged combat buffs. Basically, Field Dressing puts them in direct danger for relatively low outcome comapred to others (Envoy/Mystic). It really relegates it to “after battle heal HP” instead of potentially life saving or stamina saving in combat.
B. They have to be willing,
a. so if they're KO'd or under mind control, You cannot forcefully heal them to save their own life. Hell even if you're in concealment or smoke, they may not actually know who you are, which automatically makes them unwilling. Its pretty easy to accidently not be able to help
C. biohackers are just really made for mid to long range, except for a few skills
a. Field Dressing
i. Covered above.
b. Custom Scanner really are the main short ranged. (30, 50, 80ft)
i. Though Custom scanner does gain range-it doesn’t’ really scale well with the range skills. Improved scanner for 50ft range is lv 9. By that level you can have Far Injections and be launching darts without range penalties up to a few hundred feet (injection pistol+scope+far shot. Or just the sniper!)
ii. Custom scanner probably needs to be able to work at a penalty at range or through some sort of tools. Or. Simply make it a Standard Action to scan at range, move within 30 ft. swift If you’re adjacent.
c. Treat condition
i. This one I don’t really gave a problem with explicity. But that might just be because I don’t’ really use it. This is a limited per day resource though, so having them as injections might also make sense.
As near as I can tell, anything else they can get can be used at range or at melee just fine. There are some explicitly ranged ones (far injection). But so much of the biohacker is set to apply buffs/debuffs from the relative safety of range and cover.
I strongly suggest that Field Dressings removes the ‘willing” stipulation, be allowed to work at adjacent (perhaps change to touch?), and also be able to create Injections (that follow the established rules of injections) that are their own pool (as Field Dressing is currently). This would allow for CQC or Ranged support for the biohacker.
If they were all loadable injections, you really could use the wasp sniper that deals no damage to support in some weird situations. (though, you gain bilities that add damage straight up to injection weapons. I have no clue if that adds damage to the stingers and negates their quietness. and you can only prevent damage against allies, not against enemies to. I really wish there was a line of injection snipers that did damage...)
Additionally! The scaling for Field Dressing should be addressed.
Lv 1-3: ability scoreHP or 1d4 staminda
lv 4-7: 1d6+scorehp or 1d6stamina
lv 8-14 2d8+scorehp, or 2d8 stamina.
Greater Field Dressing at lv 14.
lv 14-forever: 5d8+score hp or 6d6 stamina.
This progression is just strange. From lv 8-14 is just a very large difference. Healing will fall behind pretty strictly there. Then it just jumps at 14 fairly arbitrarily. Also the stamina turns into d6’s again for some reason at 14. Granted it is also an extra dice due to it.
It seems like Greater Field Dressing should be moved to lv 8 (really would be lv 10 if there was such a level) and then scale up as you go up. Or I guess you could throw in one at lv 8 and then keep greater at 14. But that would end up requiring so many of your theorems for healing that isn’t able to keep up with Envoy or Mystics (albiet you can heal both pools)
Just a note, it felt weird and uneven.
This was more or less just a stream of thoughts for a point of view for the playtest. and I would love people's opinions and thoughts on the topics discussed. After all I've only played abit
I think a bunch of people have touched on the scanner things range being a bit short for what it is for. Thats probably a pretty easy thing to dial in for usability. I also think as it increases in level it should improve to work like an advanced med kit because otherwise you are going to still need to cart one of those around in addition to your custom one which seems not intended.
Biohackers with some of the options can make at least decent close quarters people but to do it you are pretty much going ice injector knives/pain gloves + heavy armor and then take one of the main fields of study that help you. The one that gives you haste pretty early is useful or like me take toxicity that gives anybody trying to hit you in melee -2 penalty for a pretty long duration.
A melee bio hacker likely winds up um self medicating more than ranged ones do where you would be using a lot of your buff options on yourself to improve your speed or defense.
One kinda funny thing about the whole willing/unwilling stuff my party figured combatants would have dog tags with organ donor/DNR type stuff so they have another spot for treat while unconcious. So anybody with a med scanner can check their tags and see that they give consent to treatment when unconscious or not. Given we already do stuff like this in real life it seems pretty reasonable in a far future setting something like making clear if you would accept such treatment or not preemptively makes sense. If you are unconscious you are not going to make good choices so better to choose while you have your full faculties.
It won't get full advanced medlab capabilities, because nothing you install in your body can also be used over 10 minutes to set up a one person med lab. They should give you the lowered treat wounds DC and the insight bonus to disease/poison treatment, though.
Quote: Raw you could do it through cover and such. Not sure that is intended. No reason you couldn't do it through cover, but if you mean total cover then you can't, raw. Everything requires line of effect unless it says otherwise.
Quote: B. They have to be willing,
a. so if they're KO'd or under mind control, You cannot forcefully heal them to save their own life.
If an effect targets willing or unconscious targets, it affects only those creatures who wish to be affected by it. A creature can declare itself a willing target at any time (even if it’s flat-footed or it isn’t that creature’s turn); this does not use up an action and simply requires, for example, a player to inform another player that his character is a willing target. Other effects allow you to target other categories of creatures or items, such as effects that can specifically target a construct, corpse, or object.
consciousness not required. Much like social media...
Custom Scanner
"Your custom scanner counts as a basic medkit ( Starfinder Core
Rulebook 220) and a chemalyzer (Starfinder Armory 100) and can be
used for any purposes applicable to those items. "
Medkit, Basic
"The basic medkit has spray antiseptic, bandages, and handheld instruments designed to examine, explore, and treat common ailments. The basic medkit allows you to attempt DC 25 Medicine checks to treat deadly wounds."
Medical Expert feat
"You can use the Medicine skill in conjunction with a medpatch or sprayflesh to treat deadly wounds as a full action.[...] When used in this way, the medpatch or sprayflesh does not perform any of its normal functions. You can also use the Medicine skill to provide longterm care with just a medkit."
I can't even imagine how this works in a practical sense.
Let's not even get into this one:
Chemalyzer
"Capacity 20; Usage 2/use
This handheld unit includes an extendable wand tipped with a sampling nozzle, and can be easily operated with a single hand. It grants a +4 circumstance bonus to Engineering, Mysticism, and Physical Science checks to identify an unknown drug, medicinal, poison, or other chemical substance."
Now that I think about it, I suppose you could use the enginnering task Identify Technology and the mysticism task Identify Magic Item (assuming you somehow have Detect Magic), but Physical Science has no task like that - does the chemalyzer actually enable you to replace engineering with phys sci?
kaid wrote: I also think as it increases in level it should improve to work like an advanced med kit because otherwise you are going to still need to cart one of those around in addition to your custom one which seems not intended.
One kinda funny thing about the whole willing/unwilling stuff my party figured combatants would have dog tags with organ donor/DNR type stuff so they have another spot for treat while unconcious. So anybody with a med scanner can check their tags and see that they give consent to treatment when unconscious or not.
Oh. Did I misunderstand the rules? I thought you could make it out of medkits, and the way the items work, adv medkit counts as a medkit for ability purposes.
Could you not rebuild your tool out of an advanced medkit and gain those abilities?
I adore the tag idea! I'm going to have to steal that.
The Ragi wrote: Custom Scanner
"Your custom scanner counts as a basic medkit ( Starfinder Core
Rulebook 220) and a chemalyzer (Starfinder Armory 100) and can be
used for any purposes applicable to those items. "
Medkit, Basic
"The basic medkit has spray antiseptic, bandages, and handheld instruments designed to examine, explore, and treat common ailments. The basic medkit allows you to attempt DC 25 Medicine checks to treat deadly wounds."
Medical Expert feat
"You can use the Medicine skill in conjunction with a medpatch or sprayflesh to treat deadly wounds as a full action.[...] When used in this way, the medpatch or sprayflesh does not perform any of its normal functions. You can also use the Medicine skill to provide longterm care with just a medkit."
I can't even imagine how this works in a practical sense.
Let's not even get into this one:
Chemalyzer
"Capacity 20; Usage 2/use
This handheld unit includes an extendable wand tipped with a sampling nozzle, and can be easily operated with a single hand. It grants a +4 circumstance bonus to Engineering, Mysticism, and Physical Science checks to identify an unknown drug, medicinal, poison, or other chemical substance."
Now that I think about it, I suppose you could use the enginnering task Identify Technology and the mysticism task Identify Magic Item (assuming you somehow have Detect Magic), but Physical Science has no task like that - does the chemalyzer actually enable you to replace engineering with phys sci?
It all works just fine for handheld, arm mod, or armor mod options to be honest, utili-arms are hardly anything new. As for the brain and eye options, it doesn't seem that much weirder to me than the Mechanic having every tool they could possibly need for any engineering check (likely including a full array of wrenches, screwdrivers, welders, etc etc) also stored in their eyes or brain. The Biohacker just has the advantage of not actually having to sacrifice a slot for their scanner, something I'm kinda hoping they backport to the Mechanic's Rig.
i've always imagined they somehow made hardlight sorta tools.
Probably not correct..
but i have always adored that idea.
I wonder how a battery fits in it, while fitting in the eye. but who knows.
Thanks to starfinders increased action economy cost on the 5 foot step I've found Getting that close hasn't usually. The boss guarded stepping around your tank to hit you once is fixable with a 10 minute rest, and takes a full hit off of your tank.
Maybe a discovery to do it at longer range though?
Zwordsman wrote: i've always imagined they somehow made hardlight sorta tools.
Probably not correct..
but i have always adored that idea.
I wonder how a battery fits in it, while fitting in the eye. but who knows.
Most of my group plays things like the engineer kits and now the biohacker stuff like mass effect omni tools. So basically hardlight+nanites+ space magic haha.
kaid wrote: Zwordsman wrote: i've always imagined they somehow made hardlight sorta tools.
Probably not correct..
but i have always adored that idea.
I wonder how a battery fits in it, while fitting in the eye. but who knows.
Most of my group plays things like the engineer kits and now the biohacker stuff like mass effect omni tools. So basically hardlight+nanites+ space magic haha. Well that's just nonsense. Clearly they run on sonic technology. Some mechanics have a wrench, some a hammer, some a screwdriver. . .
*eg*
Metaphysician wrote: [
Well that's just nonsense. Clearly they run on sonic technology. Some mechanics have a wrench, some a hammer, some a screwdriver. . .
*eg*
Sonic gun....
which is still the first and only sonic tool I've noticed that could disintegrate and reintegrate things.
Few times the 11th wish he had built that in to his.
Zwordsman wrote: Metaphysician wrote: [
Well that's just nonsense. Clearly they run on sonic technology. Some mechanics have a wrench, some a hammer, some a screwdriver. . .
*eg*
Sonic gun....
which is still the first and only sonic tool I've noticed that could disintegrate and reintegrate things.
Few times the 11th wish he had built that in to his. Ahem, it was a sonic blaster.
That reintegrating feature really was useful though. And yeah, Sonic Screwdriver'ing things is totally a viable way to go about it too.
I have been working on rebuilding my first SFS character as a Biohacker because of the ability to be a full combat medic. Since she was also a soldier in the Swarm Wars I imagine her scanner would be a handheld tool that attaches to an actual medkit, or integrated into the bracers of light armor.
kaid wrote: I think a bunch of people have touched on the scanner things range being a bit short for what it is for. Thats probably a pretty easy thing to dial in for usability. I also think as it increases in level it should improve to work like an advanced med kit because otherwise you are going to still need to cart one of those around in addition to your custom one which seems not intended.
Biohackers with some of the options can make at least decent close quarters people but to do it you are pretty much going ice injector knives/pain gloves + heavy armor and then take one of the main fields of study that help you. The one that gives you haste pretty early is useful or like me take toxicity that gives anybody trying to hit you in melee -2 penalty for a pretty long duration.
A melee bio hacker likely winds up um self medicating more than ranged ones do where you would be using a lot of your buff options on yourself to improve your speed or defense.
One kinda funny thing about the whole willing/unwilling stuff my party figured combatants would have dog tags with organ donor/DNR type stuff so they have another spot for treat while unconcious. So anybody with a med scanner can check their tags and see that they give consent to treatment when unconscious or not. Given we already do stuff like this in real life it seems pretty reasonable in a far future setting something like making clear if you would accept such treatment or not preemptively makes sense. If you are unconscious you are not going to make good choices so better to choose while you have your full faculties.
After play testing a ranged Healer/CC hitting my party was not a real issue at lvl 8 though when you miss you really feel the pinch. Between the +3 from Friendly Aim, them counting as Flat Footed against me, the +1 unnamed bonus for a real injection weapon, +1 Weapon Focus feat, and a 20 Dex due to a +2 implant I was effectively shooting at allies with a +18 attack roll.
The part that was bugging me is that Studious/Instinctive did almost nothing past character creation. This would be a great spot to influence the players path between ranged and melee.
Makes sense you didn't have much of any issue.. but you were fairly well built into shooting your allies it sounds like. That +3 is quite a strong boost.
I had a occasional issues when I did not have that +3 to allies. There are a lot of theoroms and the +3 felt like it didn't really contribute "flavor' or "interesting" it just made me do something i could already do more reliably.
Which is a good thing.. but also because its so much more boring than things that give you new toys or tools.. it feels like taking it makes me "lack" other facits. More so when other options give the hacker things to do outside of combat.
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