Something like being a Sorcerer in one part of the gestalt but picking Dragon Disciple with the other. But I didn't multiclass anyway (it seemed too much of a hassle to record for Theurgies and Synergies), so it won't matter.
Dragon disciple isn't Kirthfinder, so that wouldn't apply anyway, unless I'm misunderstanding.
The synergy features from Kirthfinder count for gestalt.
The back story seems fine
I don't know if we have enough people, I'm going to re-post the recruitment thread with our rules and campaign concept adjudications and see what happens.
I’m still here! I have a ranger/fighter ready to go... working on backstory ASAP!
Also, I am a fan of smaller groups!
Dragon disciple isn't Kirthfinder, so that wouldn't apply anyway, unless I'm misunderstanding.
Well, that was only an example, but you know.
The synergy features from Kirthfinder count for gestalt.
I'm not sure what you mean here.
Are we finally using the Wounds & Vigor rules, or is it ok with KF rules? They already have a "wounds" system.
Dragon disciple isn't Kirthfinder, so that wouldn't apply anyway, unless I'm misunderstanding.Well, that was only an example, but you know.
The synergy features from Kirthfinder count for gestalt.I'm not sure what you mean here.
Are we finally using the Wounds & Vigor rules, or is it ok with KF rules? They already have a "wounds" system.
I also assumed no multiclassing, and one part of the gestalt not affecting the other.
I was trying to reply to that from your post above
Yeah, and let's not do Wounds/Vigor for now. I need to see how the Kirthfinder stuff works, and we can always adjust stuff later, like adding mythic or spheres of power or something, etc.
Okay, so final Dracula build is looking a bit more like this:
Amberite + Adept 1-2 / Human Paragon 1-4 / Prestige Specialist 1-2 / Vampire 1-3 / PS 2-3 / Vampire 3-5 / Lich 1 / PS 3-4 / Lich 2-4 / PS 5
Gestalt'd with the much more simple: Fighter 1-4 / Blackguard Antipaladin 15 / Fighter 4-5.
You enter into Antipaladin 1 at level 5, allowing you to get your Divine Bond at level 6. As an Antipaladin, Dracula will choose the Death Domain for his Divine Bond, allowing him to enter into the Prestige Specialist class for Necromancy at level 7. With this roadmap, I can build the class at any level.
With Theurgy stacking betwixt Gestalts (at least for this boss character), Dracula gets up to a Spell Capacity of 20 without issue, on top of his 20 BAB. The problem, is that it uses the Adept spellcasting list, which is pretty darn sparse. Of course, thanks to Prestige Specialist you do get to add all necromancy spells to that list. And if Dracula makes use of Kirth's "seed spell" system (easy to do with all of the extra bonus feats he can spend on metamagic), he can easily negate this slight weakness with custom spells.
If you really wanted to, you could also trade out one Fighter level for a level in a spellcasting class of choice. This will widen your spellcasting list, but you would lose out on Level 20 Knight Order abilities, 1/3 possible Fighter talents, and a use of grit. I think focusing on the seed spells is best, IMHO.
If you wanted to keep the theurgy and spellcasting capacity separate between each side of the gestalt though (probably the best move, IMHO), then this build still gets a spellcasting capcity of 13, which makes Dracula capable of casting 7th level spells, and therefore he's still quite threathening on that front. To say nothing of the various spell like abilities he'd have access to...some of which, would in fact be 9th level.
I've been following this since the start and thinking about what i would like to play. I want to go for the nature wanderer. A Druid/Monk seems a good fit. I'm not an expert with the kirthfinder rules so any advices are appreciated.
Okay, let's see if I get this straight, because sometimes I read things that seem to contradict each other:
A normal character has:
i) 0 or more Bonus Move Actions (which are a special type of Partial Actions).
ii) 1 or more Immediate Actions
iii) 1 Standard Action.
- A Standard Action is comprised of 1 or more Partial Actions.
Up till now, everything okay. Now let's see how do I attack:
To make an attack, I must spend a Partial Action. When I reach +6 BAB, I get to attack twice (then at +11 and +16 BAB I do get more attacks), imposing a -5 to all attacks after the first. To do this I must:
a) Spend my Standard Action, that is, all my Partial Actions. I can still use the Bonus Move Action.
b) Spend my Standard Action, that is, all my Partial Actions. That also includes my Bonus Move Action.
c)Spend my Full Round Action, that is, my Standard, Bonus Move and Immediate Actions.
Which one is true, a, b or c? Or anyone completely different?
As per Chapter 7, all characters get a bonus move(/partial) action and a standard action (which is 1 or more partial actions). However, they don't get an immediate(/swift) action until they reach BAB 1.
From what I can tell in Chapter 7, Full Attacking is effectively equivalent to spending a standard action in Kirthfinder.
At level 1, your standard action is only 1 partial action, so you can only make 1 attack. At BAB 6, you gain another partial action in your standard action, for a total of 2 partial actions. Thus, each attack you make spends 1 partial action of your standard. At BAB 11 and again at BAB 16, your standard action gains another partial action, so you can make an additional iterative attack.
In other words, option "a" is correct. It's possible to move and Full Attack in Kirthfinder, but without the Skirmish feat, your only options are a tactical move that's half your speed, or a rush that's twice your speed, but only in a straight line and you suffer all the penalties of a charge. Tactical move is pretty sweet though, since you can freely interspace that movement with each of your attacks from a full attack.
You gain additional immediate actions as your BAB increases, but this is mostly for the ability to use your partial actions out of turn. You can hold any number of your partial actions (movement or attacks), then spend immediate actions to use them at your leisure.
At BAB 6, you have 2 partial actions and 2 immediate actions, so you could hold both of your partial actions on your turn in order to, say, move and then attack out of turn, with both partial actions costing 1 immediate action.
In the case of movement though, you have to have used tactical move on your turn, then held over any remaining distance for off-turn movement.
Also note that most Strikes use up your whole Standard action, but a few specify that they can be used with Full attacks if you eat up an extra -5 penalty on all of your attack rolls.
What are your thoughts on favoured terrain for a ranger? Urban? Underground? What do you think would be most appropriate and pertinent?
What are your thoughts on favoured terrain for a ranger? Urban? Underground? What do you think would be most appropriate and pertinent?
Urban or Mountainous for the 1400s plot. The scenarios are going to be on campaign in Eastern Europe or Game of Thrones-esque intrigue in Erdine, then capital of the Ottoman Empire before the fall of Constantinople.
I've been following this since the start and thinking about what i would like to play. I want to go for the nature wanderer. A Druid/Monk seems a good fit. I'm not an expert with the kirthfinder rules so any advices are appreciated.
Maybe you could be a Sinti/Roma character?
Okay, in order to make Dracula's leveling less awful, I've shuffled some levels around yet again.
Amberite + Adept 1-2 / Human Paragon 1-4 / Prestige Specialist 1-2 / Vampire 1-5 / Lich 1 / PS 3-4 / Lich 2-4 / PS 5
I just moved the Vampire levels to immediately after the Prestige Specialist. With the bonus Synergy from Human Paragon, this basically maxes out the class as quickly as possible, and gives you access to their Vampire SLAs which help ameliorate your poor mid-game spellcasting capacity.
With said SLAs, you can also gain the ability to dominate people, which will likely help immensely in collecting the souls you'll inevitably need your phylactery.
Speaking of said souls, the Necromancy Specialist ability you get at level 16 directly helps with that (precluding the need for a spell like Trap the Soul), and with the Soulcrafting feat, it allows Dracula to use the souls of others to power his phylactery, rather than relying on his own numen. He can also use their numen on things like metamagic feats, greatly expanding his spellcasting options.
In order to further supplant his spellcasting prowess while keeping with the Dracula theme, I'd suggest giving him Eldritch Heritage in the Bloatmage Bloodline. He won't be able to use his own blood for anything (cuz Undead), but he WILL be able to use the blood of other creatures, and that's about as "Vampire Spellcaster" as things get, IMHO.
EDIT: One more thing, this build gains Command Undead as a bonus feat with it's first level in Prestige Specialist. It also gains the ability to choose Leadership feat as one of it's Vampire Bonus Feats. Between those two feats, Dracula can gain quite the army behind him. By spending an extra feat on Thaumaturgy, Dracula can also expand his command to demons and other extra-planar entities. With this, he and his legion are quite the force to be reckoned.
All he needs now is a way to fashion his castle. For all intents and purposes, the thing is basically a demiplane (which he can freely create thanks to Amberite's Power over Shadow feat), but I also want to have a physical manifestation be an actual castle on the Material Plane that he can move around at will. Any ideas?
I've been following this since the start and thinking about what i would like to play. I want to go for the nature wanderer. A Druid/Monk seems a good fit. I'm not an expert with the kirthfinder rules so any advices are appreciated.Maybe you could be a Sinti/Roma character?
Yes, a Sinti shaman would fit my idea quite well i think.
I'm wondering if Vlad might have killed his entire family group, he was wounded and thought dead. Now that he has returned to full health her seeks a way to stop Vlad. This gives an easy reason for him to go far from home in his quest.
Thank you for the clarification, Kaouse.
Now, for Hit Points (I assume 1st level max, as usual):
That makes 10+10+7+7+5=39 plus my Con mod x5.
In terms of specific historical setting, are we talking about Vlad's invasion of Wallachia at the head of an Ottoman army in early October? If so, would it make sense to play a Turkish warrior sent to fight alongside the Romanian?
This is the time frame in which we'll open: Vlad's father is dead, and he is leading an Ottoman army:
First rule
Upon the death of his father and elder brother, Vlad became a potential claimant to Wallachia.[14] Vladislav II of Wallachia accompanied John Hunyadi, who launched a campaign against the Ottoman Empire in September 1448.[26][27] Taking advantage of his opponent's absence, Vlad broke into Wallachia at the head of an Ottoman army in early October.[26][27] He had to accept that the Ottomans had captured the fortress of Giurgiu on the Danube and strengthened it.[28]
The Ottomans defeated Hunyadi's army in the Battle of Kosovo between 17 and 18 October.[29] Hunyadi's deputy, Nicholas Vízaknai, urged Vlad to come to meet him in Transylvania, but Vlad refused him.[27] Vladislav II returned to Wallachia at the head of the remnants of his army.[28] Vlad was forced to flee to the Ottoman Empire before 7 December 1448.[28][30]
We bring you news that [Nicholas Vízaknai] writes to us and asks us to be so kind as to come to him until [John Hunyadi] ... returns from the war. We are unable to do this because an emissary from Nicopolis came to us ... and said with great certainty that [Murad II had defeated Hunyadi]. ... If we come to [Vízaknai] now, the [Ottomans] could come and kill both you and us. Therefore, we ask you to have patience until we see what has happened to [Hunyadi]. ... If he returns from the war we will meet him and we will make peace with him. But if you will be our enemies now, and if something happens, ... you will have to answer for it before God
— Vlad's letter to the councilors of Brașov[30]
Excellent. So my PC would have been sent as part of the Ottoman troops and as an old friend of Vlad, to check him closely and execute his plan if the prophecy turns out to be true. Meanwhile, I guess he'll try to drive him on the path of good, dice despite all his teachings he might still have some of the old camaraderie left in him.
I suppose we're getting the usual numen for a 5th level character (9,000) right? Or should we wavehand any magic items? The way they are describe in KF it seems they could be flavoured in many different ways, which is quite appealing.
yep, get numen
STR: 12 + 2 (Amberite) = 14
DEX: 14 + 2 (Amberite) = 16
CON: 8 + 2 (Amberite) = 10 [Not going below this]
INT: 16 + 2 (Amberite) = 18
WIS: 16 + 2 (Amberite) = 18
CHA: 14 + 2 (Amberite) = 16
Comelieness = 13
Social Status = 18 + 2 (Race) = 20 [The only way to get Dracula to be a Bloody Baron, sue me]
STR: 12 + 4 (Amberite) + 2 (Human Paragon) = 18
DEX: 14 + 4 (Amberite) + 2 (Human Paragon) = 20
CON: 8 + 4 (Amberite) = 12
INT: 16 + 4 (Amberite) = 20
WIS: 16 + 4 (Amberite) = 20
CHA: 14 + 4 (Amberite) = 18
Comelieness = 13
Social Status = 18 + 2 (Race) + 1 (LVL) = 21 [Again, sue me :P]
STR: 12 + 4 (Amberite) + 2 (Human Paragon) + 6 (Vampire) = 24
DEX: 14 + 4 (Amberite) + 2 (Human Paragon) + 4 (Vampire) = 24
CON: N/A
INT: 16 + 4 (Amberite) + 2 (Vampire) = 22
WIS: 16 + 4 (Amberite) + 2 (Vampire) = 22
CHA: 14 + 4 (Amberite) + 4 (Vampire) = 22
Comelieness = 13
Social Status = 18 + 2 (Race) + 3 (LVL) = 23 [Expecting Something Different? Silly You.]
STR: 12 + 4 (Amberite) + 2 (Human Paragon) + 6 (Vampire) = 24
DEX: 14 + 4 (Amberite) + 2 (Human Paragon) + 4 (Vampire) = 24
CON: N/A
INT: 16 + 4 (Amberite) + 2 (Vampire) + 2 (Lich) = 24
WIS: 16 + 4 (Amberite) + 2 (Vampire) + 2 (Lich) = 24
CHA: 14 + 4 (Amberite) + 4 (Vampire) + 2 (Lich) = 24
Comelieness = 13 + 1 (LVL) = 14 [Surprised?]
Social Status = 18 + 2 (Race) + 4 (LVL) = 24 [Balance in All Things]
This is ignoring the use of Magic Items or similar abilities. Obviously, you can probably expect a +6 enhancement bonus to each stat by level 20. This also assumes that the Human Paragon Synergy applies to the Vampire's Attribute Bonuses (which might not entirely be intended), but for a final boss, I say let it.
Okay, sorry. Another question.
Bastard Sword, Exotic Proficiency:
"One handed melee, 1d10/19-20, and two-handed melee, 1d10/18-20 and finesse or special (1d10/19-20 and 2d8/19-20 against Large or larger opponents)."
Since it states "and finesse", does it refer only to Two-handed, or One-handed also? It seems strange to me that you can handle a bastard sword with one hand without using your strength, but all these "and"s seem to imply that.
From my reading I would say that the bastard sword is finessable in both states (one handed or two handed), due to the "and" clauses with a lack of any semicolons.
It won't be finessable when using the special quality (size increase vs large or larger opponents) though, since there's an "or" in between.
Mihaloğlu Bali Bey, son of Hızır Bey, grandson of Mehmed Bey, great-grandson of Köse Mihal... Soothsayers divined that his brothers would be remembered forever, but that he would remain unknown and obscure in the eyes of history. Even among the Akinji, he is known to be fearless as he tries to make his mark against all the odds.
Does that make sense?
sounds good
Also, a question: should we be avoiding the Leadership feat, which can slow things down? For fighters, it seems to be almost a must, Charisma allowing!
I always try to avoid it.
Fighters and rogues get leadership built into their class, and fighters even get an improved version of Warlord later on.
While you can just ignore those class features, that's kinda messed up.
I'm actually going to be Fighter/Rogue, and I'm telling you, I wouldn't mind if my class features were totally ignored. Though I could easily have contacts with the sect or other people, and would accept an aid-de-camp, I usually hate to play more than one character at the same time.
Welp, I'm the opposite. I'm planning a fighter/cleric and having the Warlord class feature was at least part of my concept...
Planning a Ranger/Fighter... I think I'll simply wait until level 6 (or later) to get Leadership. That way, I can decide depending on the tone of the campaign and if we think it makes sense at that point...
I'm imagining that as part of the invasion, the ottoman army accompanying Vlad may have been the ones that destroyed my romani shaman's caravan(they hadn't settled anywhere specific in Transylvania yet). Would they take prisoners or slaves/servants? In this way he could come into the service of Vlad.
I'm having a little indecision with the classes. I thought druid for the shamanic nature side and monk for personal enlightenment(aided by spirits). But pathfinder has the shaman as an oracle/witch hybrid. If anyone reckons there is a better way to represent a Shaman in kirthfinder I'm open to ideas.
I've got a build up in the profile of this alias... Still working on gear and, more importantly, backstory and personality...
I'm gonna wait till Seb makes a new recruitment with all the rules fully complied to being working on a character, assuming that's still the plan.
made a new thread, let's move discussion of there
HUMAN BONUS FEAT: Power Over Shadow
HUMAN RACIAL FEAT: Open Minded
LEVEL 1 FEAT: Skill Focus: Heal
FIGHTER PROFICIENCY FEAT: Canny Defense
FIGHTER PROFICIENCY FEAT: Dodge
FIGHTER TALENT 1: Disruptive
FIGHTER 2 FEAT: Weapon Finesse
ADEPT ARCANE BOND: Thaumaturgy
LEVEL 3 FEAT: Eldritch Heritage (Bloatmage Bloodline)
FIGHTER TALENT 3: Riposte
PARAGON 2 FEAT: Augment Spell
FIGHTER 4 FEAT: Vile Strike
PARAGON 3 FEAT: Defiance
PALADIN 1 FEAT: Touch of Corruption
PALADIN 1 FEAT: Planar Channeling
LEVEL 5 FEAT: Extend Spell
PARAGON 4 FEAT: Heroic Defiance
DOMAIN BOND: Domain Access (Death Domain)
DEATH DOMAIN: Bleeding Strike
PALADIN 2 FEAT: Channeling Smite
PALADIN 2 FEAT: Battle Touch
NECROMANCER 1: Command Undead
NECROMANCER 1: Daunting Strike
LEVEL 7 FEAT: Practiced Bloodline
VAMPIRE 1 FEAT: Unnatural Vitality
PALADIN 5 FEAT: Great Fortitude
LEVEL 9 FEAT: Reach Spell
VAMPIRE 2 FEAT: Leadership
VAMPIRE 3 FEAT: Lightning Reflexes
LEVEL 11 FEAT: Imbue Item
VAMPIRE 4 FEAT: Iron Will
PALADIN 8 FEAT: Deep Intuition
VAMPIRE 5 FEAT: Combat Reflexes
LEVEL 13 FEAT: Soulcrafting
PALADIN 11 FEAT: Robilar's Gambit
LEVEL 15 FEAT: Stance Mastery
LEVEL 17 FEAT: Insightful Strike
PALADIN 14 FEAT: Knightly Order: Order of the Cockatrice
LEVEL 19 FEAT: Shape Spell
FIGHTER TALENT 5: Parry Spells
This guy...is going to be HELL for you guys to take out. Ludicrous top tier defenses all around, and some rather scary offenses on top of that (Vile Strike is going to be killer for you guys to deal with).
Thanks to Thaumaturgy, Leadership, and Command Undead, he's also equipped with an actual army. This works out really well with the Soulcrafting feat, since he can use it to literally steal the numen of his subordinates. This is great for powering his phylactery, creating his Castle (i.e. Demiplane), and pretty much anything else you can think of.
I also gave him the Bloatmage Bloodline, and filled up the rest of his feats with Metamagic feats, to help fill out his spell list. While he's limited to mostly 7th level spells, the Bloatmage capstone helps him ignore that restriction by draining the blood from an enemy/subordinate, whose soul he can then immediately capture for use and abuse. Bloatmage also grants him the ability to use other Sorcerer bloodlines if he ingests their blood, so Leadership comes quite in handy here as well.
The only thing I won't do is his spellcasting or skills. For that, you're on your own. But I made sure to give him a bunch of useful metamagic feats, and he has a ton of different class skills with high INT, so you should be fine in that regard. If ever you want to metamagic up a spell higher than 7th level, just grab somebody and sacrifice their blood to your cause!
God, I really love this build.