No Style Feats Outside of Combat - This Restriction is Nonsensical

[mogonk]

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/style-feats/

Quote:

As a swift action, you can enter the stance employed by the fighting style a style feat embodies. Although you cannot use a style feat before combat begins, the style you are in persists until you spend a swift action to switch to a different combat style.

My reading of this is that you cannot use a style feat outside of combat. That's how my DM interprets it as well. Feel free to disagree, I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.

So, let's say I have Veiled Moon Style from Path of War.

Quote:

Benefit: Whenever you move, you can treat up to 10 feet of that movement as teleportation. This teleportation may be taken at any point during your movement, and cannot exceed the total movement you would normally be allowed to make. You must have line of sight to your destination, and cannot teleport into an occupied space. This is a supernatural ability.

Let's say I'm locked in a jail cell constructed of iron bars with another prisoner. I can see outside the bars. I cannot teleport out of the cell, because I am not in combat. So I punch the other prisoner. Now I'm in combat. So I teleport out of the cell.

If you asked my character why he had to punch that guy to teleport, what would he say? What is the in-universe logic to this?

And before you say "Well, that's Path of War, it's third party", etc., the problematic text is from Ultimate Combat. This is the example that's tying my mind in knots, but you could as easily ask:

"Why can't I use Boar Style to sunder an object?"
"Why can't I use Deadhand Style to resist intimidate?"
"Why can't I use Monkey Style to jump over a chasm?"

If I can do this stuff at will, if I have these abilities, why do I have to wait until someone is trying to kill me to use them?

[Firebug]

Make it work for you instead.

Blinded Blade Style -> Blinded Master + Combat Style Master

"Guys! I think we're being ambushed!"
"How can you tell?"
"I can see!"

[avr]

As far as an in-universe justification goes, trying to maintain a magical or at least superhuman stance indefinitely might be tiring. It'd be less that you need to punch someone, more that teleporting through a jungle every few seconds for hours of travel, say, might be more than you could manage.

I wouldn't have a problem with your teleporting out of a cell (assuming the cell was designed that badly) if I were the GM.

[BadBird]

What's the official definition of "combat"? What's the official definition of "entering combat"?

Looks like it's up to a GM to decide what constitutes "combat". And it's not that odd to decide that jumping a chasm or teleporting out of a cell constitutes fighting against something.

Oh, and as far as Monkey Style goes:

Benefit: You add your Wisdom bonus on Acrobatics checks. While using this style, you take no penalty on melee attack rolls or to AC while prone. Further, you can crawl and stand up from lying prone without provoking attacks of opportunity, and you can stand up as a swift action if you succeed at a DC 20 Acrobatics check.

Notice that the part about adding Wisdom to Acrobatics comes *before* the text that says "while using this style...".

[blahpers]

It is nonsensical, and a bit of a blunder on the part of the design team. Just start shadowboxing an "invisible" opponent and you get around it.

[Pink Dragon]

I suspect that the reason for "you cannot use a style feat before combat begins" is to prevent characters from walking around "in style" 24/7, which would be a bit ludicrous. However, the feat itself provides a loophole "the style you are in persists until you spend a swift action to switch to a different combat style", which could mean that once you have entered combat and used the style for the first time, the style persists forever, or until you switch styles.

The above is all word games. I would think it reasonable to rule that a character can enter the style to do something dangerous, but leaves the style automatically when the danger is passed so cannot keep it up 24/7.

[blahpers]

It'd be reasonable to say that someone must hustle to use a combat style. Hustling is something squarely under player/character control. That should take care of 90% of "24/7" shenanigans.

[Irontruth]

BadBird wrote:

What's the official definition of "combat"? What's the official definition of "entering combat"?

You're looking for the "How Combat Works?" section at the beginning of the combat chapter.

1. Everyone involved rolls initiative. You are now in combat.
2. Check for a surprise round, if able to act in the surprise round, do so in initiative order.
3. After the surprise round, the first round of combat starts.
4. Everyone goes in initiative order, until everyone has gone once.
5. Repeat for additional rounds until combat ends (when there's only one side left, or consequences no longer need to be tracked in rounds).

Based on this, I'd let the player start combat. The player and guard would both roll, but the guard would be unaware. Then the player could use the surprise round to activate their style, and step through the bars. Then combat proceeds through normal initiative.

[Azothath]

that's why there are GMs